Episode #59 "The Savage" ("Duty & Honor")


Ferrariman

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yeah i know similar stuff happened during the land redistribution episode for example. but i also know that the chinese were pushing quite hard behind too. Ho chi minh himself regretted that moment of vietnamese people history. but the chinese aid was vital back then. I think that Ho chi minh was a good man, who wanted to improve his people condition. the real culprit for me was the french who didn't withdraw in time. had France given independance sooner, in good conditions, all these horrors would have been avoided. it's because France resisted that Ho turned to Russia, and then to China. USA has his share into the mess too. because without US support, France wouldn't have lasted long there

I recommend Ho chi minh by Willian Duiker. a great read. but well i'm going a little bit OT now. even if Vietnam is interesting, and present in MV

Edited by jpaul1
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15 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

yeah i know similar stuff happened during the land redistribution episode for example. but i also know that the chinese were pushing quite hard behind too. Ho chi minh himself regretted that moment of vietnamese people history. but the chinese aid was vital back then. I think that Ho chi minh was a good man, who wanted to improve his people condition. the real culprit for me was the french who didn't withdraw in time. had France given independance sooner, in good conditions, all these horrors would have been avoided. it's because France resisted that Ho turned to Russia, and then to China. USA has his share into the mess too. because without US support, France wouldn't have lasted long there

I recommend Ho chi minh by Willian Duiker. a great read. but well i'm going a little bit OT now. even if Vietnam is interesting, and present in MV

You make some very good points.  For a significant part of the VC and also non-combatants, the conflict wasn’t about communism or any other doctrine involving the Cold War rivalry between the two superpowers.  It was simply about independence.  They didn’t want the French there, or the Japanese occupation during the war, or the US involvement later.  

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On 3/1/2023 at 10:18 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Another “quirky” aspect about this episode is the title. Most know that it, in a way, has two different titles: “The Savage” & “Duty and Honor”. IMDB and MV’s wiki fandom page (which copies some stuff from IMDB) both claim that the episode originally aired with the title “The Savage”...and later when the show went into syndication the title was then changed to “Duty & Honor” for the reruns—and that title was used from then on. 

However, that’s incorrect. I have an original NBC airing, and the “Duty & Honor” title was used. I think the original script & episode had the working title “The Savage”, but for some reason was changed to the “Duty” one when it was ultimately aired. I don’t believe the “Savage” title was ever actually aired.

Going back to my previous post on this, and not that it matters much ;), but I submitted the correct title change trivia info to IMDB, to see if they would change it to be accurate...and they did! So, now IMDB states the correct trivia info on the title. Just FYI. :funky: 

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  • 1 month later...

When the guy at the  Miami Veteran's Hospital say's "I was in Operation Phoenix"

Was that reference to the real life Phoenix Program? if so it makes total sense why the Savage turn into this brutal killer.

The CIA created. him, the likes of Leonard Lake were in that program :eek:

"Only when we found him did I realize that this sick man was nothing more than a victim, a weapon of war. The true savage was Colman and men in your country and mine who create and nurture such assassins"

This is a great episode on so many levels, certainly in the series top 10.

Edited by RedDragon86
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I'd say it was a reference to the Phoenix Program. And it's hard to say if the program turned him into a killer, or if he was one prior to and found his way into the program. That's part of VIce's ambiguity in my view.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Brad Sullivan (RIP) was in Slap Shot :

MV5BODE5NTljNjktOTUxOC00Mjg2LWExMzEtOGVmOTU2MzM4NDEyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.thumb.jpg.405f669f851e32102fd7a7f21380eee8.jpg

 

 

Michael Wright was in both 'V' miniseries and the series.

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Edited by johnnyfarragut
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2 hours ago, johnnyfarragut said:

Michael Wright was in both 'V' miniseries and the series.

 

He was great in “Money Talks”!

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On 5/4/2023 at 12:51 AM, johnnyfarragut said:

Yeah, the original script and/or working title was "The Savage", but for some reason that's not really known, it was changed to "Duty and Honor" sometime before the episode aired. The "Savage" one would make sense as it would be referring to the killer/assassin--to what he did both to the prostitutes & the political figures. But, I think maybe they ultimately wanted the focus to be more on the friendship, as well as job responsibilities, between Castillo and Van Trang...rather than just the 'psycho eunuch'. :p  Hence the title was probably then changed to the "Duty & Honor" one instead. 

Edited by ViceFanMan
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This was such a fine episode , written by Marvin Kupfer (“Bought and Paid For”, “Killshot”) and directed by John Nicollela , who returned, after Michael Mann brought in new producers, to Miami Vice after producing the show and being the main director in Seasons 1 and 2 

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  • 3 months later...

Survival in the Killing Fields: Amazon.co.uk: Haing Ngor: 9781841197937:  Books

I recommend this book but it's not for the faint-hearted. Haing Ngor went through horrific torture, in the most unimaginable way.

In one instance he was stung up on a cross with fire just beneath him and it gets even worse. Poor guy.

It's amazing to think he survived all of this and starred in Miami Vice.

Crazy world.

 

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vor einer Stunde schrieb RedDragon86:

Survival in the Killing Fields: Amazon.co.uk: Haing Ngor: 9781841197937:  Books

It's amazing to think he survived all of this and starred in Miami Vice.

Crazy world.

 

Even crazier that he survived all this and then got killed in the mid 1990s in his own driveway by young punks looking for a few free bucks. 

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8 hours ago, Tom said:

Even crazier that he survived all this and then got killed in the mid 1990s in his own driveway by young punks looking for a few free bucks. 

Strange that they left behind $2,900 in cash.

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