Episode #56 "Down For The Count" Part 1


Ferrariman

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Okay...now for some of my least favorite episodes of Season 3 (this and Pt. 2). These two, and "Everybody's in Showbiz" are probably my least favorite ones of the season. "Showbiz" because of its bizarre, and no-point plot. :rolleyes: "Down For the Count" Pts. 1&2 because of the sad and depressing end of Zito. :cry:I know that John Diehl was wanting out, as his and Talbott's characters were really going nowhere. He was tired of playing one of two "goofs" and wanted a more serious part. I agree, that over time his and Switek's characters should have "grown" and changed somewhat. They should have had a couple more episodes that focused on them...and not like "Made For Each Other"--which in my opinion was stupid and ridiculous! :sick:But, I wish they had not decided to kill off the character of Lawrence "Larry" Zito...why do writers/producers think they have to kill characters off every "dang" time an actor wants to leave a show? :confused: What's wrong with having them leave to go do something else...leaving the chance that someday they might make a return appearance? They did it with Farrah Fawcett and her 'Jill Munroe' character on "Charlie's Angels"...why does Zito have to die?I hate sad and depressing things! :thumbsdown: If I want that I'll watch the freakin' news. ;) Or go to work...as I'm a social worker and work with troubled kids. So, the death of Zito is probably the main reason I really don't like this two-parter. :eek:The other reason I don't like these episodes is that I really don't care for boxing stuff. :rolleyes: It seemed like every cop/detective/crime show from the 70's-90's had to do a "prison" episode...and a "boxing" episode! Really?? They are so predictable and way over-done! :evil:However, the acting in this 2-parter is superb...as is some of the music and/or Jan Hammer scores included. :clap: John Diehl and Michael Talbott especially "shown" in this :glossy: , with their acting, and because of these few aspects I did go ahead and give this and Pt. 2 a 6.

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  • 2 years later...

This two-part episode consisting of episode #56 and #57 is another great masterpiece and seems to confirm what I have said on previous occasions, namely that the MV double episodes are almost on par with many full-feature films. In the case of Down For The Count, this is achieved by the introduction of a few very notable villains whose characters get fleshed out to a remarkable extent by the end of this story. This episode also includes the departure of a veteran protagonist from the show and that transition is carried out very smoothly and sensibly. The scene setup speaks of remarkable quality, with a number of scenes being very emotional, yet still retaining a lot of action. The styling is once again simply amazing, as this double episode probably has to offer the greatest variety of fashion used in S3. The soundtrack ties impressively well with the story, helping to convey the strong feelings ingrained within it. Overall, this two-part story is an instant classic and I rate it 10/10.

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  • 1 month later...

I just watched both episodes again last night, and as many have said this is a strong installment in the series. I view both parts one and two as a whole body of work, so I'll just share my thoughts on the entire story here.

Great scenery, music and character development abound, and knowing the final outcome from repeated viewings really allows one to let these episodes "breathe" a bit and take in the full vibe. I think the boxing motif is a great choice here, showing yet anther avenue of corruption and the team's approach to subdue it all. I really like the "satellite sports network" pitch that Sonny and Rico were selling, I know ESPN started in 1979 in some form or another, but growing up without cable TV I was probably unaware of it in any reality until the 90's. DJ does such grand animated acting here, especially at Guzman's place while pitching the deal. It is fun to see Tex Cobb in his role, although he had one of those instant personas where I think we all know his character will meet a tragic end. Don King is hilarious in his part here, kitchen prepping and laying words of wise information. I remember him being an icon in the boxing world, and sporting that trademark hair. Speaking of boxing, wasn't one of the Rocky films big in the public pop culture world around this time? I'll have to look that up, but again great plot setting for the times.

The ending of part one, of course is very sad. I'm torn on how to express my stance, I would have liked to see Stan react a bit more aggressively when discovering Larry, perhaps some first responder action, CPR, and some panicked desperation. However, the way it is portrayed here makes it even more powerful. He just knew...it was too late. I always hated to see Larry leave Miami Vice, in many ways his departure changed the show for me.

 

Castillo delivers a monumental line in the conference room: "I know you all hurt inside, but do your grieving in private, the street has no sympathy."   Powerful Truth.

 

The visit to Larry's apartment was perhaps more sad and moving to me than the death scene. His snow globe collection, the goldfish he had received long ago when his old place had burned down, all remnants and heartfelt items of a man who had just days earlier been no doubt sitting on the couch decompressing, unwinding after a long shift on the vice team. 

 

Part two ushers in a fantastic villain vs. villain element involving Guzman and Gilluini which I find fascinating. I could have really enjoyed an entire additional episode chronicling their interaction and plotting. The shopping mall shoot out is epic. As a side note, just as Sonny and Rico drive up and enter the front doors, I think we see PMT's stunt double's face, not PMT, although it is a split second shot and I could be wrong. Nice classic 80's gun battle and climax with Stan getting revenge. The champagne toast on the boat was a fitting night time tribute to Larry. 10/10 

 

"Larry Zito was my partner. But to me, he was more like my brother.."

 

(adding a quick edit here to mention the magnificent car chase scene. Absolutely excellent, with Billy Idol's "To Be A Lover".)

Edited by DeepCover333
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I watched these two epiodes over the last two nights, as well. Really a stellar joint episode.  I often avoid watching it because I just get so bummed when Larry dies.  It's a definite turning point in the series.  Alot of the more humourous/quirky bits are lost from this point on and the show takes a darker turn, bit by bit, peaking in its darkness especially in the fourth season. 

 

Mind you, it's not really a bad turn for Vice.  I used to dismiss the fourth and fifth seasons, but I started appreciating them quite a bit more in the last few years.  I really like how Tubbs develops more. 

 

Back to Down for the Count, I really like how it's shot and edited.  It moves at such a good clip, and Crockett is at his smart ass "Burnett" best.  THere are loads of quotable lines ranging from Cobb to Don King to Pepe Serna.

 

I literally laughed out loud last night when the mobster played by Joe Dallesandro talks on the phone about Guzman:  "Can you beieve the stones on this burrito?"  Hilarious!  No way you could say that on television these days.  There'd be a rally, a march, a sit-in, etc.  In no particular order.

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  • 1 year later...

When I first went through the series, this was one of my least favorites. How opinions change. It's really one of the best of S3. Unlike The Good Collar, the depressing feel of this two parter doesn't bring it down.

John Diehl gives probably his best performance. I actually got misty eyes when Switek found him dead and during the funeral scene. The guy shouldn't have been so damn likeable.

I like the character of Guzman. True slimeball. When There's Trust U Don't Need A Contract is one of my favorite lines. Also the meetings between him and Crockett and Tubbs crack me up.

Moon was cool. Reminded me of some of my dads friends lol.

I'm not into boxing so I slightly prefer part 2.

Don King is a bastard but he's entertaining.

I've noticed that the photography really looks hazy/soft from here for a while. That's a shame.

9/10

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  • 6 months later...
2 hours ago, APalFromHawaii said:

Good episode! Imagine if they had Stallone as a guest in it... hehe!

But yeah... Michael Talbott's character will change forever... ;( Goodbye, Larry.... 

 

Yes Stallone would have been fantastic !:hippie:

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  • 4 months later...

Watched these two episodes last nite - wow! So good.

The writing and direction, by Richard Compton, is very good and good to see John Diehl doing some fine acting in his last hurrah in Miami Vice. 

I really enjoyed the scenes with Crockett and Tubbs undercover as sports satellite network dudes with Guzman. Very funny.

I really enjoyed the two episodes - quite different and there is a lot more Crockett and Tubbs in the second part. 

Great locations, music and acting:hippie:

Edited by Matt5
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  • 1 year later...

Moon (Randall Cobb), and Sykes (Mark Breland) were good boxers IRL. Cobb never won any major title, but was a 'hard to move' rock. he got knocked out only once in his career, and lost by points against Larry Holmes. Breland is olympic gold medalist, and won WBA world championship twice

Edited by jpaul1
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  • 4 months later...

Just watched this again after some time.  This may only be the third time I've watched the whole episode.  It is a great episode, with fantastic performances.  It's just damn hard to watch the end!!  Imagining Switek finding his best friend like that gets me!  In regards to Switek not attempting CPR, they probably could've gone that route with the scene, but it wouldn't have had the emotion.  I was a cop for almost 14 years, so I gave up critiquing police work in tv/film a long time ago.  "Tex" Cobb was an interesting choice for a guest, great character actor.  My cousin actually ran into him at a taco shop in Nashville about 20 years ago.  The only thing that bugs me with this episode is the weird haze/smokiness.  Granted, they may be because a good portion was shot in the boxing gym and arena.  I feel like some other episodes suffered from this haziness as well, mainly season 5.

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Season 5 definitely uses intentional fog filters on the camera. Other seasons probably have as well. Season 4 for sure, I think. Smoke for the sake of atmosphere and depth is all over the series. That's not exclusive to the 80s but it was definitely a favorite technique at that time.

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  • 2 months later...

So I saw this episode last night and I noticed that while Stan was hoping to clear Larry's name.

But in the end when Guzman gets killed afterwards the MV team conclude that Larry's name is cleared but where is the clearing ?

Guzman did not get a conviction for the murder, or am I missing something ?

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Maybe Guzman's lawyer Sordoni revealed that Guzman had Zito whacked. Might be a possibility.

Edited by Tommy Vercetti
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  • 6 months later...

Did you know?:

When Moon finishes  knocking out the goon by Guzman’s pool and ties him up by three limbs, he throws his hands up. 

Here’s why:

Time stops when you throw up your hands. :wuerg:

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  • 4 months later...
On 4/20/2010 at 5:41 AM, moftap said:

That final scene ...Having seen this episode a few times recently on Centric, there is something that really disturbs me about the final scene. When Switek walks into the gym, the punching bag is swinging back and forth as if to indicate the bad guys had just left seconds earlier. This means Zito had likely only OD'd seconds before. As poignant as it is for Switek to hug Larry, what he should have done was put him on the floor and started CPR! And then called 911. In those days, paramedics were carrying Narcan, which could reverse the effects of narcotics like heroin (which I'm assuming is what he was shot up with or something similar). At least it would have given Larry a chance. As a trained police officer, but not a trained EMS person, Switek should have known that he needed to do CPR and not simply declared him dead at the scene. I know they had to kill Larry off, but it would have been more believable to have him shot or something where he was obviously dead. In my opinion, he may have survived the overdose and could have possibly been resuscitated. So now when I watch it, instead of feeling sorry for Stan, I feel like shouting ... Dude! CPR!!

Bad writing...

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On 11/21/2015 at 1:37 AM, DeepCover333 said:

(adding a quick edit here to mention the magnificent car chase scene. Absolutely excellent, with Billy Idol's "To Be A Lover".)

Billy Idol's song in that scene is actually 'Don't need a gun' ;)

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On 3/30/2020 at 11:53 AM, Orson-Fader said:

So I saw this episode last night and I noticed that while Stan was hoping to clear Larry's name.

But in the end when Guzman gets killed afterwards the MV team conclude that Larry's name is cleared but where is the clearing ?

Guzman did not get a conviction for the murder, or am I missing something ?

i agree. i miss the details too. it was one of these moments i thought to myself the series was heading a wrong way

 

On 10/1/2020 at 5:01 AM, Dadrian said:

Did you know?:

When Moon finishes  knocking out the goon by Guzman’s pool and ties him up by three limbs, he throws his hands up. 

Here’s why:

Time stops when you throw up your hands. :wuerg:

beautiful horses

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  • 2 months later...

Both parts are strong episodes, and the well-filmed boxing scenes are matched by the outrageous car chase and Crockett's cynical/humorous remarks to the bad guys.

I see a lot of Made For Each Other hate on the thread--and everyone is entitled to opinions--but the point of that episode is that they ARE made for one another because they're nerds and goofs. How many bathrooms in Graceland?

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  • 2 months later...

Now for the dreaded (at least for me) “Down for the Count” 2-parter. :o These were pretty much my original thoughts on this, and the same for Pt. 2...not much has changed:

Okay...now for some of my least favorite episodes of Season 3 (this and Pt. 2). These two, and "Everybody's in Showbiz" are probably my least favorite ones of the season. "Showbiz" because of its bizarre, and no-point plot. :rolleyes: "Down For the Count" Pts. 1&2 because of the sad and depressing end of Zito. ;( 

I know that John Diehl was wanting out, as his and Talbott's characters were really going nowhere. He was tired of playing one of two goofs, and wanted a more serious part. I agree, that over time his and Switek's characters should have been given the chance to grow and evolve somewhat. They should have had a couple more episodes that focused on them...and not like "Made For Each Other"--which in my opinion was stupid and ridiculous!

But, I wish they had not decided to kill off the character of Lawrence "Larry" Zito...why do writers/producers think they have to kill characters off every dang time an actor wants to leave a show? ?( They did the same thing for the character of Warrick Brown in CSI, and as much as I love CSI, I hated that episode of that show! What's wrong with having them leave to go do something else...leaving the chance that someday they might make a return appearance? Why does Zito have to die? I realize that MV was supposed to be “darker” for its day, and didn’t always have a happy ending...but killing off a main & loved character was too much. It was still TV and fiction-entertainment...I hate sad and depressing things! :thumbsdown: If I want that I'll watch the freakin' news. :p 

So, the death of Zito is probably the main reason I really don't like this 2-parter. The other reason I don't like these episodes is that I really don't care for boxing stuff. :rolleyes: It seemed like every cop/detective/crime show from the 70s-90s had to do a ‘prison’ episode...and a ‘boxing’ episode! Really?? They are so predictable and way over-done! :evil: 

However, the acting in this 2-parter is superb...as is some of the music and/or Jan Hammer scores included. :clap: John Diehl and Michael Talbott especially "shown" in this :glossy:, with their acting, and because of these few aspects I did go ahead and give this and Pt. 2 a 6. 

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As others have stated, the swinging punchbag when Stan first entered the gym was a nice touch. It gave the impression that the killers punched it in jest on their way out. It really marked how cold their actions were in killing Larry. Not to mention turning on the shower to (I assume) cover any noise of a struggle.

The final scene with Stan discovering Larry was heartbreaking and superbly acted.

The overall episode though...I found it average. Mostly because I don't care about boxing and there was just too much of it. The non-boxing scenes were good though. Would've been good to have an extra scene or two with Larry and Stan but then the final moments wouldn't have been so shocking I suppose.

But part1 finishes strong with an iconic scene that still has an emotional punch to this day.

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2 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

As others have stated, the swinging punchbag when Stan first entered the gym was a nice touch. It gave the impression that the killers punched it in jest on their way out. It really marked how cold their actions were in killing Larry. Not to mention turning on the shower to (I assume) cover any noise of a struggle.

The final scene with Stan discovering Larry was heartbreaking and superbly acted.

The overall episode though...I found it average. Mostly because I don't care about boxing and there was just too much of it. The non-boxing scenes were good though. Would've been good to have an extra scene or two with Larry and Stan but then the final moments wouldn't have been so shocking I suppose.

But part1 finishes strong with an iconic scene that still has an emotional punch to this day.

Agreed...as I stated above, definitely too much boxing! And the whole premise of a gangster/drug dealer wanting to control the career of a young & “innocent” up-n-coming boxer was sooo overdone & predictable—even by the 80s. :evil: Sad & emotional episode...very well acted, but too sad for me. ;( 

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  • 2 months later...

This is the first half of a great, gritty Miami Vice movie with a focus on prizefighting.  The first time you watch this, you're glad to see ol' Larry getting a "centric" show - with John Diehl getting dramatic opportunities at that.  Boy, I sure love that Switek & Zito team.  I hope we see more focus on them in the future... Then comes that final scene.  Winwood's moody "There's a River."  Stan drives up to the Bravo gym.  He's expecting Larry to be standing outside so they can go celebrate Sykes' victory.  Switek enters the gym.  His cop sense tells him something is wrong.  For all of his clowning, he's a skilled policeman.  He finds Larry in a shower stall, dead.  Guzman's goons have made it look like a drug overdose.  Stan takes his "made for each other" buddy into his arms.  My God, when Zito's chin falls onto Stan's shoulders. Michael Talbott's stunned, disbelieving expression is heartbreaking.  We are stunned too.  One of our crew, a member of one of the three teams we've been following for a two and half year span is gone.  

Tex Cobb is rip-roaring as Moon.  I love how he looks out for his friends and stares down his enemies with no fear.  Pepe Serna is ruthless as Guzman; you think he might be a more comical villain at first, like his character from "Yankee Dollar," but, no, this bastard means business.  And Don King is hilarious with his motor mouth.  I get the feeling that Don Johnson and Philip Michael Thomas were grinning and cracking up for real in that scene.  

This episode has such a sweaty, intense atmosphere that it feels like it should be an R-rated movie.  When Zito says, "son of a gun," it sticks out like a sore thumb because we all know he would have said something stronger in a real life context.  It's great to see a few sharply lit sunshine scenes (like when Moon ties up that mook) to offset the smoky world of boxing gym interiors.  Good fight between Sykes and the Bazooka.  Hot ring girl too! 

Excellente! Now on to part 2. 

Edited by Jack Gretsky
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  • 10 months later...

Question:

At the beginning when Zito is razzing Crockett about how much better boxing is than football, he says something about “eleven sty-roid(?) mouthbreathing…”

Did he mispronounce steroid, or can someone teach me a new word?

This always stumps me. ?(

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5 hours ago, fakespyder said:

Something about "slurping mouth breathers move around the carpet"?

I get all that part (football players on artificial turf). It’s just the other word I mentioned though. :) 

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9 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Question:

At the beginning when Zito is razzing Crockett about how much better boxing is than football, he says something about “eleven sty-roid(?) mouthbreathing…”

Did he mispronounce steroid, or can someone teach me a new word?

This always stumps me. ?(

I think he’s just purposely pronouncing the word “steroid” in a goofy way. But, maybe he’s referring to something else? 

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