Death and the Lady


miamijimf

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Posted: 14 September 2008 at 4:45pm by Tom71Hi all, this is one of the episodes with some locations unidentified. So far we know 1. 1235 Club for Milton Glantz house and the back alley 2. Miami Beach Police at Washington Ave for the confrontation Tubbs, Crockett, Castillo and Glantz and 3. the demolished wall of the Fontainbleau Hilton on Collins What about the party scene with the "Pleasure little Treasure" song by Depeche Mode? It is a tall building with an open flat roof along Venetian Cswy as clearly stated on the wall behind Milton Glantz but where? I checked every highrise along the Causeway but nothing seems to match, except the building next to the Marriott on the Miami Downtown side which looks similar on the roof but has too many air condition fans to match completely. Other locations to find: the house with the statue in the yard (home of Knox); the party in the teaser Posted: 14 September 2008 at 5:02pm by MATT5 Ref The Party Scene - That is the one Tom , its the Doubletree Grand Hotel - someone had a question up of it in Location Trivia a while back. If you look closely at the side of the building backing onto Biscayne Bay you can see the large glass windows on the roof looking outwards the Venetian Cswy ( where C&T talked with Milton against the glass ) .The West angle on this link gives a good view of the glass http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=n8ywst89j01b&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=9321411&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=114 September 2008 at 5:09pm by airtomyYour hunch is right, it is the building next to the Marriott. This was an old trivia question. Doubletree Grand Hotel http://doubletree1.hilton.com/en_US/dt/hotel/MIABSDT-Doubletree-Grand-Hotel-Biscayne-Bay-Florida/index.do1717 North Bayshore Driveposted 14 September 2008 at 10:06pm by KingOfViceCity Here's a picture of the Doubletree. Does anyone know if the roof where the party was is accessible? Is it used as an observation deck or anything like that?: Eingefügtes BildPosted: 27 September 2008 at 11:09am by KingOfViceCityThe confrontation between Crockett and Glantz was at the Miami Beach Police Building, but the establishing shot for the scene was the Sun Trust Bank on Lincoln Road. Eingefügtes BildPosted: 29 September 2008 at 4:22am by DanJI went by the Doubletree last week, hoping to find a way onto the roof. No luck, gang. I took the elevator to the highest possible floor, then found an open stairway door. I climbed as far up as it went, but the door at the top was padlocked. I knew I shoulda brought the bolt cutters (Where's Michael Westen and Fiona with the Co2 when you need 'em? Hah!). So close, and yet so far...On the way down I asked a woman who got in the elevator if there was access to the roof. She seemed to be an employee of the place, but all she suggested was that I ask management. Another day, then, another day.
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  • 5 years later...
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Some new Blu-ray stills from the fine “Death and the Lady” featuring the demolished Fontainebleau Hilton Mural in Miami Beach which was so beautiful.:hippie:

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@Matt5 your Blu Ray pics are great, but the aspect ratio seems to be forced to 16:9 (widescreen) instead of the intended 4:3 (standard). 

Are these pics as seen on your screen, or is our website distorting the final product?

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14 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

@Matt5 your Blu Ray pics are great, but the aspect ratio seems to be forced to 16:9 (widescreen) instead of the intended 4:3 (standard). 

Are these pics as seen on your screen, or is our website distorting the final product?

That’s me Dadrian I prefer the widescreen mode 16:9 :hippie:

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  • 1 month later...

A 1980s shot similar to the one we see in this fall 1987 episode the great “Death and the Lady”. This was the original Season premiere and the first episode filmed in Season 4 during the Summer of 1987. 

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Edited by Matt5
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Am 23.6.2018 um 10:05 schrieb Matt5:

A 1980s shot similar to the one we see in this fall 1987 episode the great “Death and the Lady”. This was the original Season premiere and the first episode filmed in Season 4 during the Summer of 1987. 

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objection your Honor! Death&the Lady was not shot first in Season 4, but Amen...send money was (23-31 July). DATL was second and shot 2nd August and after. Season premiere was Contempt of Court.

Edited by Tom
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On 7/24/2018 at 4:14 PM, Tom said:

objection your Honor! Death&the Lady was not shot first in Season 4, but Amen...send money was (23-31 July). DATL was second and shot 2nd August and after. Season premiere was Contempt of Court.

Of course ! 

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  • 4 months later...

Nice modern day shot of the Doubletree Hotel in the Omni, looking out to the Venetian Cswy and islands, we see in this fall 1987 episode. With the beaches in the far distance and the Julia Tuttle far left of the photograph. If I remember rightly we also get a good view of the hotel in Season 4s “Cows of October” from Izzy’s place.:dance2::dance2:

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Edited by Matt5
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  • 1 year later...

Just coincidentally watched Death and the Lady and Asian cut within 2 days apart and stumbled across a detail. The green/white mural wall of the run down apartment building where Tulane Knox lived in DATL (picture 1), looks similar (not fully the same though) as the green/white wall of the Betsy Hotel in Asian Cut (picture 2 with Sandy standing in front of it). I doubt that it was the Betsy as the wall ornamental pattern is different, the entrance stairs C&T are using do not match, Knox room is too run down even for the Betsy in 1987 and the inner yard is too narrow for the Betsy, but I figured: how many green white walls with ornaments were there in total in 80s South Beach Art Deco District? Must have been very few. Unusual color scheme. I tried to find old pictures of the Betsy interior or other 80s green houses around but no luck.

And then to add up to the green mystery: the scene where Sandy meets her killer in Asian Cut. Unknown location with a room 603, means 6 floors. Very rare in South beach and again green as all the doors are green in this hotel.

maybe @miamijimf or other buffs like @airtommy have a clue but a green/white colored Art Deco building must be findable?!

 

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Edited by Tom
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41 minutes ago, Tom said:

Just coincidentally watched Death and the Lady and Asian cut within 2 days apart and stumbled across a detail. The green/white mural wall of the run down apartment building where Tulane Knox lived in DATL (picture 1), looks similar (not fully the same though) as the green/white wall of the Betsy Hotel in Asian Cut (picture 2 with Sandy standing in front of it). I doubt that it was the Betsy as the wall ornamental pattern is different, the entrance stairs C&T are using do not match, Knox room is too run down even for the Betsy in 1987 and the inner yard is too narrow for the Betsy, but I figured: how many green white walls with ornaments were there in total in 80s South Beach Art Deco District? Must have been very few. Unusual color scheme. I tried to find old pictures of the Betsy interior or other 80s green houses around but no luck.

And then to add up to the green mystery: the scene where Sandy meets her killer in Asian Cut. Unknown location with a room 603, means 6 floors. Very rare in South beach and again green as all the doors are green in this hotel.

maybe @miamijimf or other buffs like @airtommy have a clue but a green/white colored Art Deco building must be findable?!

 

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Great post - I would love to find that Death and the Lady location - it definitely is not the Betsy as I’ve had a good look in there. 
With reference to the 603 bedroom and 6 floors in South Beach in Asian Cut -I wouldn’t be suprised  if this was indeed the Park Central Hotel we see in this episode as they have 6 floors. The roof scene also has a green - white tiling.

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7 hours ago, Tom said:

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Your 3 pics above show the same shade of green, but my pic below (from "Asian Cut") is a different shade of green.  Also the railings are so similar in style and color that I believe they likely are the same building.

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Edited by airtommy
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  • 2 months later...

UNKNOWN LOCATION: KNOX APARTMENT

As every Art deco building has its own unique handrail or wall pattern and green/white Art Deco was rare, there must be historic evidence (photos) of this building somewhere. It was an apartment complex with elevated floor level (C&T walk up the stairs from street level with sunlight) and without light inside the building´s inner yard.

I searched all South Beach (Ocean Drive, Washington, Collins and side streets) for that pattern but nothing.Also a website with old historic SB pictures of buildings did not do it.

@miamijimf is there any expert you know we could ask or is there a website or a book where such patterns are documented?

Thanks!

 

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Tom, I already asked the lady at MDPL to check with her tour guides about this one.  No one recognized it.  Will keep looking.  It's such a unique design it should be identifiable if it still exists.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

Tom, I already asked the lady at MDPL to check with her tour guides about this one.  No one recognized it.  Will keep looking.  It's such a unique design it should be identifiable if it still exists.

Thanks! As it seems to be an apartment complex it would be rather located in a side alley or MB inland, not on the beach or Collins/Washington Ave. 
Also it could have been torn down in the meantime given its run down state.

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  • 3 weeks later...

LOCATION FOUND: THE RYDER APARTMENT (marked as "unknown" on @C Glides location website)

Still not found the Knox apartment, but the Ryder apartment where Jill lives with her father is clearly the Park Central Hotel at 640 Ocean Drive. It was also used as art school in that episode.

The scenes reveal that it has the same green wooden doors with the same downward looking wooden panel pattern as the scenes we know from Asian Cut where they filmed on the 6th floor.

Of course, I have not stopped with the door similarity and tried to suss out exactly where they filmed it which is hard as the hotel was massively remodelled and is the Celino Hotel now. Going by the concrete floor Crockett steps on and the glass block window behind him (5x10 blocks) it must be the lowest floor possible (2nd floor American count) and we have one main suspect for a match in size and shape on the front side of the hotel (window replaced glass blocks?) and one less likely one (size-wise) on the rear.

But, the exactly matching doors and the fact that the Park Central was also used in the art school scene, brings this to a 99% probability even without full clarity of the window location.

P.S. on the Asian Cut pic we see a short aisle only behind Sandy Dyson and a fire door at the end, as the 6th floor is much shorter due to the building structure with the highest floor only half the building´s usual length. The other floors are much longer and do not have a fire door at the end. But the aisle is centrally located on all levels.

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Edited by Tom
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Am 15.7.2020 um 04:12 schrieb miamijimf:

Tom, I already asked the lady at MDPL to check with her tour guides about this one.  No one recognized it.  Will keep looking.  It's such a unique design it should be identifiable if it still exists.

Meanwhile I suspect this old apartment complex is gone. It has no open yard (no light inside!) and was certainly in SB. South of 6 Street there have been many demolitions since then as we all know. I tried around the Corsair on historic aerials with focus on a relatively broad building (most are very slim and there is no fit for the yard between two rows of apartments) with no open yard but no luck. On Google I cruised all SoBe streets and all Google picture search terms for Art Deco railings but no find. Also special MDPL Like Sites with old postcards did not help. I am stumped.

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  • 7 months later...

great 1988 pic of the Corsair front side (teaser party happened on the beach side). Also seen a bit in Buddies and of course internally in Sons and lovers. Unfortunately, there is no ocean view picture of the Corsair.

 

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Edited by Tom
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LAST UNKNOWN LOCATION: Knox apartment found? The Corsair?

Often the easiest explanations are the best.

I think there are many interesting similarities that indicate that the Knox apartment could have been filmed inside the Corsair, as was the teaser party. The door wood shapes are bit different, but the patterns of the locks&keys, the window shape, the color of the interior and the ground in front of the entrance between Tony Rome movie, Sons and lovers and DATL are very suspicious. The Corsair was razed in early 1990, so it would have had the right shabby state in summer 87 for filming Knox´s apartment. It also had such high straight stairs as shown behind Crockett and Tubbs when they enter Know apartment building, let alone that the Corsair had the same narrow stretch and building shape.

P.S. I searched a lot in SoBe and found no alternate buildings with shabby look, these colors or the Art deco pattern seen here.

Last pic is the Corsair in Feb1990 shortly before demolition and the green color is there too.

 

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Edited by Tom
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GOTCHA! Knox apartment is solved. It was not the Corsair, but the Leonard Hotel 54 Ocean Drive. @miamijimf

The unique Art Deco railing is proof. And I have an interior picture of the exact same courtyard used by Crockett and Tubbs. See below. The Leonard was just diagonal/vis a vis the Corsair (very convenient for filming this episode!) and also used in Buddies and was first remodelled (1990) and then competely razed and replaced by a new building. Old and 1990 remodelled version of building is below as well plus the aerial as of summer 1986. All locations of this ep found. ENJOY!

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Edited by Tom
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old picture of the Park Central lobby (art school), that was also used in The Savage, Asian Cut and Hostile takeover

 

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