Episode #52 "Better Living Through Chemistry"

[ViceFanMan]

On 1/24/2021 at 2:35 PM, RedDragon86 said:

The structure of the episode should have been more solid if they were going to introduce Tubbs former partner, leave all of the comedy, Izzy and the bikers out of it.

It should have been set up in the same way as "Evan"

And what didn't make sense was why would Izzy send the biker boss a picture with him laughing, he was kidnapped and might I add the background are not the same. 

I agree. I don’t hate this one, but it could & probably should have been set up better & more believable. I’m not as huge of an “Evan” fan as many fans here are...but it was definitely set up much better than this one.

[RedDragon86]

On 1/3/2011 at 9:24 PM, MrsEvanFreed said:

I hate this episode, what an EPIC turd.At times, Clarence acted more like a jilted lover towards Tubbs.That scene between them at his place, with "Rico Blues" playing was a bit odd. Bad choice of music IMHO.4/10

And how does a 2 bit DJ live in a luxurious Miami bayfront home?

He's not even a DJ, he just plays a song that somebody else created

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

And how does a 2 bit DJ live in a luxurious Miami bayfront home?

He's not even a DJ, he just plays a song that somebody else created

 

I don’t think he was necessarily a “2-bit” DJ, lol...he was probably paid pretty well by & was living in a bay-front home owned by the drug dealer guy-(Mack?). He probably knew Mack was dirty, but was trying to ignore it & not care. But, eventually his cop-side won out. I guess I don’t hate this one as much as some ...not the best one of Season 3, but definitely not the worst either. 

Back in the 80s TV shows lots of times would try and showcase a certain area if it was important to a show...so they would have characters living in nicer or fancier homes/apartments/lofts than realistically they would be. The Miami area of course was a huge important aspect to MV, so they even had Crockett & Caroline living in a nice home in the Miami suburbs (from the 2-part “Hit List”/“Calderone’s Demise” that the Argentinian assassin shot up)...not a mansion by any means, but still nicer than most likely a Vice cop would’ve been able to afford...especially in the Miami area, and at the time it didn’t appear that Caroline had a job. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[Dadrian]

Meldy(?) may have also been contributing to the household income with her tips.  

[ViceFanMan]

44 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Meldy(?) may have also been contributing to the household income with her tips.  

Lol, ya never know! 

[RedDragon86]

3 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I don’t think he was necessarily a “2-bit” DJ, lol...he was probably paid pretty well by & was living in a bay-front home owned by the drug dealer guy-(Mack?). He probably knew Mack was dirty, but was trying to ignore it & not care. But, eventually his cop-side won out. I guess I don’t hate this one as much as some ...not the best one of Season 3, but definitely not the worst either. 

Back in the 80s TV shows lots of times would try and showcase a certain area if it was important to a show...so they would have characters living in nicer or fancier homes/apartments/lofts than realistically they would be. The Miami area of course was a huge important aspect to MV, so they even had Crockett & Caroline living in a nice home in the Miami suburbs (from the 2-part “Hit List”/“Calderone’s Demise” that the Argentinian assassin shot up)...not a mansion by any means, but still nicer than most likely a Vice cop would’ve been able to afford...especially in the Miami area, and at the time it didn’t appear that Caroline had a job. 

Yeah but the biker boss owning that home is just an assumption and why would he do that for just a guy who runs errands and DJ's at his club?

The whole episode is far fetched and it has plot holes all over the place. 

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Yeah but the biker boss owning that home is just an assumption and why would he do that for just a guy who runs errands and DJ's at his club?

The whole episode is far fetched and it has plot holes all over the place. 

True, the drug dealer/biker club owner Mack, owning that house, and letting his DJ live there is just an assumption (or one possible explanation of how he could be living in that house)...but I got the impression that Clarence was starting to be more than just a DJ for Mack—like he was trying to slowly groom him to eventually be part of the “business”. But, I could be wrong? Or maybe Clarence came into some money some other way (legal or illegal) along the way?

 But, it could also be that the house was a cool looking bay-front home that producers wanted to showcase in an episode, and it ended up being this one for Clarence...giving the “impression” that he possibly might have been involved in other questionable or illegal activities along the way to be able to afford it—like he was trying to “shove” it in Tubbs’ face that he’d done better & was living the fancy life...but in reality still was angry and upset that he couldn’t be a cop again. 

 I don’t necessarily think Clarence living in that house was a plot-hole, but I guess in some ways it could be considered unrealistic. But...as awesome & stylish as MV was, its whole premise was fairly unrealistic. That’s what made the escape from reality, into this colorful (literally & figuratively ) wild, amazing if not bizarre fantasy world so captivating! 

[RedDragon86]

14 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

True, the drug dealer/biker club owner Mack, owning that house, and letting his DJ live there is just an assumption (or one possible explanation of how he could be living in that house)...but I got the impression that Clarence was starting to be more than just a DJ for Mack—like he was trying to slowly groom him to eventually be part of the “business”. But, I could be wrong? Or maybe Clarence came into some money some other way (legal or illegal) along the way?

 But, it could also be that the house was a cool looking bay-front home that producers wanted to showcase in an episode, and it ended up being this one for Clarence...giving the “impression” that he possibly might have been involved in other questionable or illegal activities along the way to be able to afford it—like he was trying to “shove” it in Tubbs’ face that he’d done better & was living the fancy life...but in reality still was angry and upset that he couldn’t be a cop again. 

 I don’t necessarily think Clarence living in that house was a plot-hole, but I guess in some ways it could be considered unrealistic. But...as awesome & stylish as MV was, its whole premise was fairly unrealistic. That’s what made the escape from reality, into this colorful (literally & figuratively ) wild, amazing if not bizarre fantasy world so captivating! 

My main gripe with this episode is it's a really poor attempt at adding to Tubb's backstory. They introduce his former partner into a comical episode? plus I am not convinced, not even 1% that he was his partner.

When you see the flashbacks in the pilot from NY I am just not feeling or even imagining that he was there with Tubbs at that time or before 84' and that his brother knew him as well. I totally believe that Sonny for example dealt with Frank Hackman and that he knew Evan Freed, Robbie and Thurmond. 

This is when they did it correctly. 

[ViceFanMan]

10 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

My main gripe with this episode is it's a really poor attempt at adding to Tubb's backstory. They introduce his former partner into a comical episode? plus I am not convinced, not even 1% that he was his partner.

When you see the flashbacks in the pilot from NY I am just not feeling or even imagining that he was there with Tubbs at that time or before 84' and that his brother knew him as well. I totally believe that Sonny for example dealt with Frank Hackman and that he knew Evan Freed, Robbie and Thurmond. 

This is when they did it correctly. 

There were some comical aspects...but they involved Izzy. He’s always a moron in whatever episode he’s in. The comedy didn’t really involve Clarence or his backstory that much...so I guess it doesn’t bother me. Besides Izzy’s goofball antics, the rest of the episode is actually kind of “dark” and even deadly.

As for backstories & people of Crockett & Tubbs’ past...these people lots of times just pop out of the proverbial woodwork for just that episode. We really don’t get to know a lot before or since, other than what’s stated in that episode. So, I guess Clarence showing up out of nowhere, especially since Tubbs had no idea he was in town, didn’t seem that out of the ordinary to me, either. 

But, we all have likes & dislikes, for various reasons...to each his or her own!  

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

There were some comical aspects...but they involved Izzy. He’s always a moron in whatever episode he’s in. The comedy didn’t really involve Clarence or his backstory that much...so I guess it doesn’t bother me. Besides Izzy’s goofball antics, the rest of the episode is actually kind of “dark” and even deadly.

As for backstories & people of Crockett & Tubbs’ past...these people lots of times just pop out of the proverbial woodwork for just that episode. We really don’t get to know a lot before or since, other than what’s stated in that episode. So, I guess Clarence showing up out of nowhere, especially since Tubbs had no idea he was in town, didn’t seem that out of the ordinary to me, either. 

But, we all have likes & dislikes, for various reasons...to each his or her own!  

It has to be because he is a poor actor and his performance was not convicting. 

Evan, Hackman, Robbie and Thurmond did pop up out of the blue but they were convincing because Guy Boyd, John Heard, William Russ and James Remar are fine actors. 

The casting department got it badly wrong in picking Victor Love. It would have been great if it was Denzel Washington and the episode was taken more seriously, because it was an important moment in Tubbs police career.

[ViceFanMan]

4 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

It has to be because he is a poor actor and his performance was not convicting. 

Evan, Hackman, Robbie and Thurmond did pop up out of the blue but they were convincing because Guy Boyd, John Heard, William Russ and James Remar are fine actors. 

The casting department got it badly wrong in picking Victor Love. It would have been great if it was Denzel Washington and the episode was taken more seriously, because it was an important moment in Tubbs police career.

I’ll be honest and say that even though I like his episode, the guy playing Robbie was a little “off” with the acting. But, overall I liked all these characters...including Clarence in this one. But, Denzel Washington would have been a really interesting choice! 

[Dadrian]

Has this been addressed?:

After the lady tests the the synthetic coke in the lab with Tubbs, the next scene is Tubbs at OCB in Castillo’s office saying “Tucker said it’s as close as he’s seen an underground guy get.”  

Was this a script or filming error? Was “Tucker” supposed to be the person at the lab?

[OCBman]

Nice catch, @Dadrian. You could've been the show's continuity person! 

Dorian Frankel uncredited as "Tucker".

 

[Dadrian]

5 hours ago, OCBman said:

Nice catch, @Dadrian. You could've been the show's continuity person! 

Dorian Frankel uncredited as "Tucker".

 

I guess I should have searched a little harder. @Papa Legba mentioned it in 2009:

 

[ViceFanMan]

17 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

I guess I should have searched a little harder. @Papa Legba mentioned it in 2009:

 

It still was a good catch! Sometimes there’s so much information, and so many posts on an episode (which is a good thing ), that it’s really hard to go back through all of it and try to see if someone else has mentioned some point in the past. It’s good to restate it in a more current time.  

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

It still was a good catch! Sometimes there’s so much information, and so many posts on an episode (which is a good thing ), that it’s really hard to go back through all of it and try to see if someone else has mentioned some point in the past. It’s good to restate it in a more current time.  

I’ll probably catch it again in 2035  

[Miami Beau]

15 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Was this a script or filming error? Was “Tucker” supposed to be the person at the lab?

Good point Dadrian. I was thinking about this before and maybe the scene with Tubbs at OCB was filmed before the lab scene. Maybe at that time, the producers had the intention of using a male actor for the Tucker role but, changed their minds upon filming. Last minute recast?
Whatever the reason, I feel it was a good thing they went with a female lab tech. If you really think about it, minus this and the Melody character, the entire episode had zero female character involvement. No Gina or Trudy, pretty rare for Vice episodes 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Miami Beau

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Miami Beau said:

Maybe at that time, the producers had the intention of using a male actor for the Tucker role but, changed their minds upon filming.

Great minds think alike! 

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Miami Beau said:

Good point Dadrian. I was thinking about this before and maybe the scene with Tubbs at OCB was filmed before the lab scene. Maybe at that time, the producers had the intention of using a male actor for the Tucker role but, changed their minds upon filming. Last minute recast?
Whatever the reason, I feel it was a good thing they went with a female lab tech. If you really think about it, minus this and the Melody character, the entire episode had zero female character involvement. No Gina or Trudy, pretty rare for Vice episodes 

Without seeing the draft script, I'd say last minute recasting (or possibly the original actor fell through for some reason).  Or the script had originally been written with a male Tucker, it was changed at some point during revisions, and that line just got missed (or it was pooched by PMT based on an earlier draft). Who knows? 

Some day when I'm really bored I might go through and compare Off The Wall and Out Where the Busses Don't Run just to see what changed between versions aside from Weldon's name (he was originally Jack Griswald).

Edited August 4, 2022 by Robbie C.

[Miami Beau]

4 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

 

Some day when I'm really bored I might go through and compare Off The Wall and Out Where the Busses Don't Run just to see what changed between versions aside from Weldon's name (he was originally Jack Griswald).

Sounds like a cool downtime activity. Do please tell us if you spot any changes while comparing the two. I really should look into purchasing some original MV scripts myself 

[Miami Beau]

I watched this yesterday and I knew I had seen this guy before. Finally I realised, he’s the cop from Tale Of The Goat. He’s one of the only few people in the series to call Sonny Crockett “pal”. 

[Tom]

Am 4.8.2022 um 22:47 schrieb Robbie C.:

Some day when I'm really bored I might go through and compare Off The Wall and Out Where the Busses Don't Run just to see what changed between versions aside from Weldon's name (he was originally Jack Griswald).

Some small things changed. Like the address of the doll house from South Miranda to South Waters. But don’t expect huge finds and don’t be disappointed!

[Tom]

Am 4.8.2022 um 20:35 schrieb Miami Beau:

Good point Dadrian. I was thinking about this before and maybe the scene with Tubbs at OCB was filmed before the lab scene. Maybe at that time, the producers had the intention of using a male actor for the Tucker role but, changed their minds upon filming. Last minute recast?
Whatever the reason, I feel it was a good thing they went with a female lab tech. If you really think about it, minus this and the Melody character, the entire episode had zero female character involvement. No Gina or Trudy, pretty rare for Vice episodes 

I think there is a profane and simple reason. They originally wrote a man named Tucker in the script, then cast a woman and forgot to change the name in the latest script revision before filming accordingly. „Tucker“ is a male name (meaning in English gives no reasonable indication that it is a Nick name), at least I have never heard it used for a female.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Tom

[Dadrian]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

Tucker

It’s also a very common last name is the US, which could have been an easy fix if Tubbs would have said “…she’d ever seen”, but still would have been weird.   
 

Regardless, your theory seems very plausible, Tom, especially given the pace they had to keep with week after week. 

[Robbie C.]

7 hours ago, Tom said:

Some small things changed. Like the address of the doll house from South Miranda to South Waters. But don’t expect huge finds and don’t be disappointed!

I wasn't expecting to. I've read both before when I was working on my prequel to the episode. There are other episodes with bigger changes.