Ferrariman

Episode #51 "El Viejo"

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sonnysgirl

Sonny is driving the black car again?? Did I miss something?? Gave this a 7. Liked Willie Nelson, he did a great job. All in all a good ep. Cant remember many details, only watched it once so far and it was very late last night..

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Spyder
Sonny is driving the black car again?? Did I miss something?? Gave this a 7. Liked Willie Nelson' date=' he did a great job. All in all a good ep. Cant remember many details, only watched it once so far and it was very late last night..[/quote'] Yeah, this was supposed to be the season opener, before the Ferrari gets blown up. When Irish Eyes are Crying was filmed second, but shown first. So it looks odd when the car magically reappears in this one, considering that it was eventually broadcast almost two months into the season.

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sonnysgirl
Yeah' date=' this was supposed to be the season opener, before the Ferrari gets blown up. When Irish Eyes are Crying was filmed second, but shown first. So it looks odd when the car magically reappears in this one, considering that it was eventually broadcast almost two months into the season.[/quote']oh ok! thanks for clearing that up. Glad it wasnt me going crazy :-)

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Joe

As we know, El Viejo is the real first episode of Season 3 and I assent to the view of the glossary: the look ist very innovative and modern. Strong contrasts of the colours round out each scene.:happy:I'd say the fashion turns a little bit more business-like, but not too much. It's a tightrope walk between coolness and business.El Viejo starts with a really strong teaser. It explains in a few scenes with fast cuts the tragical death of the undercover cop, accompanied by a wonderful Jan Hammer track (Texas Ranger). Only VICE features such perfect beginnings. :clap::glossy:After the teaser, there's the next climax: Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi - first-class!!!:radio:Along with it, a gorgeous museum in pastel colours and a superbly crazy Steve Buscemi .:thumbsup:Nice to see that VICE paves the way for his career.Remarkable is that for a long time, it's vague which role Jake Pierson aka Willie Nelson plays. Is he a good or a bad guy? A cop or a dealer?Anyway, the role of a Texas Ranger which takes revenge is tailor-made for Nelson! :clap: The idea to put Willie Nelson into designer clothes can only come from VICE.The interplay between Donnie and Nelson is also worth seeing , they complement each other.The final scenes at the cemetary remind me of the good old western movies. Though the fog patches are unrealistic in Miami, they sort with the scenes and create a fantastic atmosphere.:happy:Design and style of El Viejo is magnificent. For example the hotel room where Jake Pierson meets the follower of Mendez: blue walls and a green bed. Clothing of Sonny and Rico is innovative. Sonny wears only spencers or jackets in grey or black, coupled with coloured shirts. Rico solely wears custom-made suits with ties, casual clothes not at all.I think their whole (new) appearance correspond to Season Three which is designed out and out.Equally excellent is music in El Viejo, Wanted Dead Or Alive, Fly On The Windscreen and State of Emergency is first-class.:radio:All in all El Viejo is a nice prelude to Season 3.10 of 10 points.

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Victor

I like this episode,I give it a 9

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cybercop106

I think it was 1874-1902 :p

The pawn shop receipt shows Pierson's DOB as 05-30-20, and the Peacemaker he pawned is quoted to be a 1936 model by Crockett, so that time frame fits. He was living at the Royal for 10 years (according to the manager) and could have become a Ranger at 21, so that leaves 1941 to 1976, cause the pawn shop receipt also showed the current month was Sep 1986. Since the Thompson submachinegun wasn't available til late in 1920, the gunfight Pierson lost his partner in had to be after that too. And the car two of the bandidos were using as cover in Jake's flashback had the grill, lights and hood arrangement of a late 20's vehicle.............
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beatleboylevi

I give it an 8. I enjoyed it a lot. I use to be into Western things for a while and this was fun think about the Texas Rangers again. I also like the character development between Crockett and Pierson. I liked how they both knew who each other were but couldn't say anything. Other than the Daytona being in it after it exploded due to the producers changing the order of episodes I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.:clap:

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TomMV
awesome episode:clap:9 from me

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TheGreatMcCarthy

One of my favorites from S3 if not my favorite. Willie Nelson did a great job and the storyline was entertaining. Great to see a young Steve Buscemi also. The Miami Beach Post office poses for the Museum. Its still in use today. I love seeing MV filming locations that are still around today. I miss old Miami/Miami Beach.

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Tony D.

Still a 10+ in my book. I love Crockett's awe for Texas Rangers. Go Willie! :clap::cool::happy:

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gypsy

One of the best episodes of season 3.

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Brother in Arms

i give 8 points:), i find the story good:clap:, the music with bon jovi ist great :radio::thumbsup:

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Vincent Hanna

I didn't give it a fair chance when i first watched it because it felt weird seeing the daytona back.But now i watch it before "Irish eyes" and it's a much better season opener. Once the daytona pulls up at the museum with the neon lighting, and "Wanted dead or alive" playing. You instantly know this new season will be awesomely different.I highly recommend watching it in the original order. 10/10!Also I'm sure I saw crockett wearing his Rayban's in one little scene IIRC, if someone can confirm that?

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ViceFanMan

I love this episode...it and "Shadow In the Dark" are my two all-time favorites of Season 3! :thumbsup:Of course any serious "MV" fan is going to know this is the famous episode where the "ghost Spyder" phenomena occurs :p --where Crockett's Ferrari Daytona Spyder suddenly shows back up after it was destroyed in the season premiere. This originally was supposed to be the season opener, but Don suddenly decided he wanted more money...causing delays in filming. Also resulting in the Daytona making a surprise resurrection. Well, selfish or not, Don got his pay raise, Crockett stayed, and the show continued on. Definitely for the best! :thumbsup: If Don had left, the show would have faded out way sooner than it did....same would have happened if Philip Michael Thomas had left. I love 'ol Willie Nelson in this! In my opinion this shows the old dude can act, as well as sing! :clap: He was a captivating character actor and I was really enthralled by his Jake Pierson character. I also love the whole Texas Ranger part thrown in, and the past Jake brings to Miami. The only part I somewhat hate is when Willie starts slamming Tubbs' Caddy into the bad guy's van. I'm like no, no, no....not the Caddy! :eek: LOL! :) But, it also shows that Jake could hold his own, and still had some action left. Willie's 80 now, I think, and the last time I saw him he basically still looks the same! From what we occasionally hear he's still singing, and still smokin' his pot. :hippie: LOL!! :)The music in this episode was also superb! :thumbsup: I love Flies On the Windscreen by Depeche Mode, during the highway action/car chase scene...but I love Depeche Mode period! :D I also really loved State of Emergency by Cactus World News...superb song that really fit the plot! :clap: Like Desire by Yello in the episode "Killshot", it too was a "haunting" song that just captivated you. Of course Bon Jovi's famous Wanted Dead or Alive is also awesome towards the beginning. :radio: This should have been the season premiere...but the only one besides "Irish Eyes Are Crying"--as I love that episode too! ;) This one just had everything...superb plot, fashion, action, acting, cars, music, filming locations, etc... Like the Pilot, "Calderone's Return" Pts. 1&2, "Smuggler's Blues", "Out Where the Buses Don't Run", "Definitely Miami", and many more... This one was definitely "Mimai Vice"! :thumbsup:I gave it a 10!! :clap:

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hleather

The color scheme of this episode is fantastic. All those greens, all the walls match the people in the scenes. It really sets the tone for what would obviously become an intentional new palatte for the show, a blue-green darker general scheme, to get away from the pastels and to reflect the hurt Crockett would be going through this year?

El Viejo is the real first episode of Season 3 and I assent to the view of the glossary: the look ist very innovative and modern. Strong contrasts of the colours round out each scene.:happy:10 of 10 points.

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ViceFanMan
The color scheme of this episode is fantastic. All those greens' date=' all the walls match the people in the scenes. It really sets the tone for what would obviously become an intentional new palatte for the show, a blue-green darker general scheme, to get away from the pastels and to reflect the hurt Crockett would be going through this year?[/quote']Yeah, they ventured away from the pastels in season 3...and that actually hurt the show and angered fans. They returned to some of the pastels in season 4 because of that...although there were still some of the darker colors mixed in as well. Personally I love the pastels and they should have stayed with that...but I love this episode and it's one of my favorites of the season--this was my original review/rating:
I love this episode...it and "Shadow In the Dark" are my two all-time favorites of Season 3! :thumbsup:Of course any serious "MV" fan is going to know this is the famous episode where the "ghost Spyder" phenomena occurs :p --where Crockett's Ferrari Daytona Spyder suddenly shows back up after it was destroyed in the season premiere. This originally was supposed to be the season opener' date=' but Don suddenly decided he wanted more money...causing delays in filming. Also resulting in the Daytona making a surprise resurrection. Well, selfish or not, Don got his pay raise, Crockett stayed, and the show continued on. Definitely for the best! :thumbsup: If Don had left, the show would have faded out way sooner than it did....same would have happened if Philip Michael Thomas had left. I love 'ol Willie Nelson in this! In my opinion this shows the old dude can act, as well as sing! :clap: He was a captivating character actor and I was really enthralled by his Jake Pierson character. I also love the whole Texas Ranger part thrown in, and the past Jake brings to Miami. The only part I somewhat hate is when Willie starts slamming Tubbs' Caddy into the bad guy's van. I'm like no, no, no....not the Caddy! :eek: LOL! :) But, it also shows that Jake could hold his own, and still had some action left. Willie's 80 now, I think, and the last time I saw him he basically still looks the same! From what we occasionally hear he's still singing, and still smokin' his pot. :hippie: LOL!! :)The music in this episode was also superb! :thumbsup: I love [i']Flies On the Windscreen by Depeche Mode, during the highway action/car chase scene...but I love Depeche Mode period! :D I also really loved State of Emergency by Cactus World News...superb song that really fit the plot! :clap: Like Desire by Yello in the episode "Killshot", it too was a "haunting" song that just captivated you. Of course Bon Jovi's famous Wanted Dead or Alive is also awesome towards the beginning. :radio: This should have been the season premiere...but the only one besides "Irish Eyes Are Crying"--as I love that episode too! ;) This one just had everything...superb plot, fashion, action, acting, cars, music, filming locations, etc... Like the Pilot, "Calderone's Return" Pts. 1&2, "Smuggler's Blues", "Out Where the Buses Don't Run", "Definitely Miami", and many more... This one was definitely "Mimai Vice"! :thumbsup:I gave it a 10!! :clap:
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DeepCover333

I kicked off my next run of viewing season 3 last evening, with this episode instead of Irish Eyes. Most of you know why...and I thought it would be nice to feel this as the season opener for once, with the Daytona still rolling instead of showing up mysteriously again after a few episodes. 

I really like this one. A few random thoughts, as I am  watching another episode soon tonight:

The music is fitting, from Jan's score to the Bon Jovi and Depeche Mode. The story rocks, with Willie playing his part well. The mystery and persona is carried very effectively. The intense early scene when the security guard is killed, just after Jake suddenly shows up, is intriguing!  I liked how Sonny shows deep respect for the legendary position of a Texas Ranger. Great concept overall. As far as the weapons,the smoking loud old Colt revolvers in the cemetery fog were excellent. Also, the double taped auto gun magazines, ( I like how they showed the scene demonstrating the point, burn one mag and then flip it over for a fresh one. although a scene actually showing it happen while shooting would have been even better). Good small spots of humor in this one. I also think Gina looks great and delivers a fine performance. A great mix of day and night shots, I think Vice is best when both are present. My only slight wishes for improvement would have been explaining where Sonny's boat wound up after Jake steals it, and also the entire concept that Vice didn't let on that they were law enforcement to him. It seemed somehow obvious, and I suppose Jake's last words make that evident anyway. Has anyone mentioned  Steve Buscemi !?  A legend himself these days, so amazing to see him in such an early role, played so very well. I'm giving it a 9/10

 

 A magnificent episode in my opinion! And a great way to start season 3 this time around. 

Edited by DeepCover333
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vatdim

This is one episode that stands out in my memory. The story of the Texas Ranger added further depth to Miami Vice's portrayal of cops. A solid personal story that employed superb acting by both stars and guest actors. The episode's music and style also speak unquestionably of high quality. There is one drawback to this episode and that is the use of the Ferrari Daytona after its elimination from the show in the pilot episode Irish Eyes. This irregularity occurred because El Viejo was originally supposed to be the opening episode for the season, but ultimately Irish Eyes was chosen for this role due to being more "explosive". Therefore to any fans watching the series in order, I'd recommend watching El Viejo as the opening episode of S3 and watching Irish Eyes after that. Overall, I rate it 9/10.

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vicegirl85

I almost wish I had watched El Viejo before Irish Eyes, just for the sake of continuity with the Daytona!  But, don't think I had ever realized the car thing before joining this group (yes, that's a little embarrassing!)  And Irish Eyes is one of my top favorite episodes, so I've watched it many times back when I had VHS recordings of some episodes of the show...whereas I'd only ever seen El Viejo when it first aired. 

 

This was an outstanding episode!  Great atmosphere; as Deepcover333 said, the perfect mix of day and night scenes; a memorable character with Jake Pierson, and an engrossing storyline with Jake out to avenge the killing of his partner's son by the Bolivian--accepting that he himself would die in the incident (by leaving his nitroglycerin at home).  Crockett's reverence for the Texas Rangers gives us another small clue to his early life.  Jake has some of Crockett's personality (or Crockett has some of Jake's!), as shown when he (Jake) drops his cigar in Rickles' beer at poolside.  Gina and Trudy had a bit more to say and I enjoyed them, especially the business about the prayer meeting. 

 

Outstanding music by Jan Hammer and the songs fit perfectly with the scenes.

 

I also would have liked a follow-up about the boat, and it does seem like Sonny and Rico might have revealed that they were cops when they discovered Jake was a Ranger.  However, to be fair Jake was still keeping to his own cover story that he wanted to make a deal with the Bolivian.  He didn't mind if they thought he was a bad cop.

 

Really a great episode and I appreciate it much more than I did before!  9/10.

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JDe75

I didn't really notice the Daytona mystically reappeared either... I mean I did notice the car, being on so many scenes in this ep but didn't make the connection (or had just forgotten it).

Great ep. I loved Jake's green pastel suit !

Jake leaving his nitos at home in the end was kind of odd. I mean, in the EXcelsior-hotel when his heart started acting up after handling the Bolivian's errand boy, it took him down flat. So, what if it had happened again, before or during the last confrontation and had prevented the whole thing. Why would he had taken such a risk? I think the whole thing was done just to add theatrics at the end by Sonny finding the pills. It did add to the feeling that it was the last thing he'd do, but did so at logic's expense.

This ep is at the top of my list but just so I don't hand out too many 10s I'll give it a 9. Yeah, blame it on the bad continuity with the cars !

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Matt5

Great episode and I agree you don't really notice too much the reappearance of the Daytona ! ok not ideal in contuinity but a great episode Directed by Aaron Lipstadt ( "Yankee Dollar" and " Payback"):balloon:

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ivoryjones

Just watched the ep again today, now on BD. It's always a pleasure to watch "El Viejo", and I've certainly did it way more than 30 times (31 years!). Yet, I  don't have a clue on what kind of weapon that one that Pierson uses here and there to beat people is (he uses it, very effectively by the way, on Paco and even on Crockett, if I'm not mistaken).

To me, Willie Nelson's acting was just perfect. Solid and true, not a single face expression or intonation out of place. It must be a temptation to overact when such a good character is given to you, but he wouldn't fall into that.

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daytona365
5 hours ago, ivoryjones said:

Yet, I  don't have a clue on what kind of weapon that one that Pierson uses here and there to beat people is (he uses it, very effectively by the way, on Paco and even on Crockett, if I'm not mistaken).

you sparked my curiosity with this so I had to take a look. I think he knocks Crockett down with the grip of a leather whip. The thing is barely visible but to mee it looks like there are some shorts strips coming out of it.

While scrolling through the scenes, I've noticed something else however. When Sonny returns to the St. Vitus after Gina (absolutely stunning in her white dress) has been babysitting Pierson, he clearly wears a pair of black Wayfarers with what looks like Ray Ban lettering on the frame, while only a few minutes later, still in same clothes, he's wearing the regular S3 Persol Ratti shades.

 

rayban.jpg

Persol.jpg

Edited by daytona365
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Sonny-Burnett

I think Jake's weapon was a leather slap jack, something in use by law enforcement at one time. My dad had one from back in the day, which is more or less a short lead-filled leather wrapped club, or sometimes has the lead at the end for a whip effect. I don't think Jake's had the strap from what I could see. Here's one I found though it is a bit longer than the one I've seen.

https://www.karatemart.com/slap-jack

Edited by Sonny-Burnett
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ivoryjones
2 hours ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

I think Jake's weapon was a leather slap jack, something in use by law enforcement at one time. My dad had one from back in the day, which is more or less a short lead-filled leather wrapped club, or sometimes has the lead at the end for a whip effect. I don't think Jake's had the strap from what I could see. Here's one I found though it is a bit longer than the one I've seen.

https://www.karatemart.com/slap-jack

I didn't know that weapon, and he's so quick at it that his victims (and most of fans) just couldn't see a thing. Thanks! Here are some pics:

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_18.23_sl

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_18.24_sl

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_19.20_sl

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_39.26_sl

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_39.27b_s

051-el%20viejomill%20creek%20bd_39.27a_s

 

3 hours ago, daytona365 said:

While scrolling through the scenes, I've noticed something else however. When Sonny returns to the St. Vitus after Gina (absolutely stunning in her white dress) has been babysitting Pierson, he clearly wears a pair of black Wayfarers with what looks like Ray Ban lettering on the frame, while only a few minutes later, still in same clothes, he's wearing the regular S3 Persol Ratti shades.

 

rayban.jpg

Persol.jpg

Fantastic!!!! Thanks! It's funny that you've mentioned that. Today, when watching that scene, I wondered briefly if I saw a Wayfarer. But I went "nah" and told myself it was a Persol "from an other angle and with some sort of reflection on it". I was under the wrong assumption that Ray Bans didn't have side logos back then. I though that because Crockett's Wayfarer on "Definitely Miami" and other eps from S1-2 don't show any side logo.  But you are absolutely right, of course. Anyway, just to show the Wayfarer with no logo from "Definitely Miami":

034-definitely%20miamimill%20creek%20bd_

Edited by ivoryjones

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