Episode #45 "When Irish Eyes Are Crying"

[Robbie C.]

3 hours ago, Bren10 said:

U2 never supported the IRA, Robbie. In fact, they caught a lot of serious heat for not doing so and criticizing their methods. A lot of that idea is misplaced assumption and misinterpretations of songs like Sunday Bloody Sunday.

 

 

U2 as I recall stayed fairly quiet about opposition during the time of the Troubles, which at that time was often taken as support. 

[Bren10]

They were sort of in a rock and a hard place. They would've liked Ireland to be free of British influence but not at the cost of lives or through violence. On the Under a Blood Red Sky album Bono prefaces Sunday Bloody Sunday by saying "This is not a rebel song" because apparently elements of the IRA wanted to adopt it as an anthem of sorts.

[RedDragon86]

On 7/29/2019 at 5:44 PM, Robbie C. said:

They were doing a cover detail for a person of interest. Not unlike Free Verse. 

The thing is though would she be there if it was some unattractive old Irishman doing a speech, why couldn't it have been Crockett or Tubbs checking this man out to see if he is a threat to Miami.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Bren10 said:

They were sort of in a rock and a hard place. They would've liked Ireland to be free of British influence but not at the cost of lives or through violence. On the Under a Blood Red Sky album Bono prefaces Sunday Bloody Sunday by saying "This is not a rebel song" because apparently elements of the IRA wanted to adopt it as an anthem of sorts.

No apparently about it. The Provos in particular were quite into it. But it’s all part of the context of the times that might have shaped that episode. 

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

The thing is though would she be there if it was some unattractive old Irishman doing a speech, why couldn't it have been Crockett or Tubbs checking this man out to see if he is a threat to Miami.

Gina and Sean relationship felt forced and unnecessary. 

That’s one of the reasons I said the episode felt like two different ones forced together. This has never been one of my favorites. 

[Bren10]

I can't help but think of the end of Naked Gun. I keep expecting a marching band to step on Neeson's body. Also see the end of Betrayed with Tom Betenger.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Bren10

[vicegirl85]

9 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

The thing is though would she be there if it was some unattractive old Irishman doing a speech, why couldn't it have been Crockett or Tubbs checking this man out to see if he is a threat to Miami.

Gina and Sean relationship felt forced and unnecessary. 

Each to his own  

The way I saw it, the show appeared to imply that Carroon was giving a talk at a church (possibly one Gina occasionally attended since she knew the priest) and his talk was about using peaceful means to obtain justice for the Catholic population of Northern Ireland, which had been oppressed for hundreds of years.  Gina, ever the idealist, was taking all this in.  I was never sure if she let him know then that she was a police officer, but she did tell him later on.  I liked Gina a lot, but she usually did jump into situations without asking as many questions or being as skeptical as I thought she should have been.  She acted a bit younger/ more innocent than she was supposed to be.  Carroon naturally put himself out to get acquainted with this beautiful woman who seemed interested in justice just as he claimed to be (and perhaps he really believed he was working for a just cause, and that the ends justified the means).   And naturally Gina was attracted to the handsome Irishman who spoke of obtaining justice by peaceful means instead of violence.  the relationship seemed rushed, but I didn't feel it was forced at all.  Once Carroon did find out Gina was a cop, he probably figured he'd string her along and spending time with her would serve as a cover for his  true activities of buying the Stinger missiles.

I don't know if my interpretation was what the writers had in mind, but it made sense to me.

[Detective_Crockett]

Decent episode on rewatching. The Breakfast Club would be very proud of Sonny for finally ending Mr Vernon.  Liam Neeson is so young in this episode it's crazy, it could do without the love plot. The Brit was a bit of an idiot. Castillo is a badass during the helicopter scene. Also goodbye beautiful Daytona.  

[RedDragon86]

I still think this episode is OK but I wish it was done a little bit differently, removing the love angle. Like it was much more focused on the IRA.

6/10

Edited March 5, 2020 by RedDragon86

[Sebax]

Well.. the image quality obviously improved from season 2. The camera angles, shots, etc, look better too.

But it's the first chapter and I'm already missing pastels. Both in the clothes and in the atmosphere.

Also, I don't like PMT and DJ haircut very much..

The story was good. Castillo was great. And Gina is beautiful.

 

I don't know what score to give..

7,5 / 10

[RedDragon86]

Blowing up expensive Ferrari made no sense. That was purely for dramatic reasons but would have made no sense in reality.

Edited March 5, 2020 by RedDragon86

[IzzyFan99]

I really enjoy this one. 

 

Saundra Santiago impresses me a lot in the episode especially in the last scene.  Jan Hammer delivers the goods as he always does and Liam Neeson is one of my favourite guest stars. 9/10

[NeonNoodle]

On 12/14/2019 at 2:06 PM, RedDragon86 said:

Blowing up expensive Ferrari made no sense. That was purely for dramatic reasons but would have made no sense in reality.

From what I understand, Ferrari (the company) began cracking down on fake Ferrari “replicas” of their cars and coerced them to remove the Corvette based fake Daytona from the show. Ferrari provided the white Testarossa in its place in what was a brilliant gesture of product placement. So, the show needed a way to get rid of the Daytona, and the method was certainly dramatic...and necessarily permanent.
 

As far as my thoughts on this episode in general, I’d never been a fan of it in the past, but just re-watched it and found it to be better than I remembered. Not a huge Liam Neeson fan, and as everyone else seems to be mentioning, even though I love Gina, her acting in this was definitely stiff, although she does a pretty good job at the end with the heart wrenching plea of “don’t make me shoot you”. What elevates this episode is the supporting cast of Jeff Fehey, Walter Gotell, and to a lesser extent, Paul Gleason (I have a hard time seeing him as a bad guy), and of course the Daytona to Testarossa transition. Overall 7/10

Edited March 23, 2020 by NeonNoodle

[RedDragon86]

28 minutes ago, NeonNoodle said:

From what I understand, Ferrari (the company) began cracking down on fake Ferrari “replicas” of their cars and coerced them to remove the Corvette based fake Daytona from the show. Ferrari provided the white Testarossa in its place in what was a brilliant gesture of product placement. So, the show needed a way to get rid of the Daytona, and the method was certainly dramatic...and necessarily permanent.
 

As far as my thoughts on this episode in general, I’d never been a fan of it in the past, but just re-watched it and found it to be better than I remembered. Not a huge Liam Neeson fan, and as everyone else seems to be mentioning, even though I love Gina, her acting in this was definitely stiff, although she does a pretty good job at the end with the heart wrenching plea of “don’t make me shoot you”. What elevates this episode is the supporting cast of Jeff Fehey, Walter Gotell, and to a lesser extent, Paul Gleason (I have a hard time seeing him as a bad guy), and of course the Daytona to Testarossa transition. Overall 7/10

I understand the reason for getting rid of the Daytona, but it was done in an unrealistic way. I mean Sonny's arms dealer blows up his $100 thousand dollar vehicle, the car alone was probably worth more than the deal for the weapons, but we expect him to carry on with the deal?

The Daytona should have got accidental blown up at the end of the episode during the helicopter scene.

[NeonNoodle]

9 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I understand the reason for getting rid of the Daytona, but it was done in an unrealistic way. I mean Sonny's arms dealer blows up his $100 thousand dollar vehicle, the car alone was probably worth more than the deal for the weapons, but we expect him to carry on with the deal?

The Daytona should have got accidental blown up at the end of the episode during the helicopter scene.

Actually totally agree with your original point that it was done for dramatic reasons. But, there’s a lot of that going on in this show… Recently watched El Viejo and amazing how a tripod mounted machine gun doesn’t even create one bullet hole in a car at close range let alone hit any people...

[TylerDurden389]

I've reached season 3 during my rewatch of the show in production date order, rather than air date order. It's amazing how by starting with El Viejo in season 3, this episode helps ease us into the new direction the show was going, now that we've had an "appetizer", so to speak, with the aforementioned El Viejo. It wasn't nearly as jarring as my first go-round when I just watched them in the order my DVDs have them in. I definitely like this episode a lot more now. I like Gina and it's a shame after season 3 we didn't see much of her anymore. I love that R&B song they play throughout the episode. Liam Neeson is as charming as he is psychotic in this episode (I thought his bug-eyed/wide-eyed stare he does a few times was a little hammy, though, lol).  I was little sad at the end when Gina's forced to take him down. Of course the moment was slightly ruined for me when I noticed the stuntman laying on the ground moved his head before it cut to Liam's close-up. Obviously they didn't catch that in the days of standard definition and figured no one would notice, lol. And speaking of bloopers, at the end when Crockett and Tubbs take off (after finding Sweitek and Zito bound and gagged in their van), you can see Michael Talbott turn his head and laugh at the end of the shot, lol.

I also like the new direction Jan Hammer is starting to take the music, using lower pitched synth sounds for a darker tone and the obviously new sound of added heavy metal electric guitars. My overall thoughts on season 3 notwithstanding, it's kind of a shame that they didn't stick with this style for the later seasons. Sure it ain't the bright, sunny white on pastels we were used to at this point, but I feel this new take could've gave the series stronger legs to stand on than what they inevitably went with.

I'm not even halfway through the entire series yet, and I can already say for certain that from now on, with the exception of "Calderone's Return" in season 1 (parts 1 and 2 were shot with another episode in between. Guess they needed time for traveling to the island for part 2, lol), THIS is the order I'm gonna watch them in whenever I rewatch the series in the future. Though I'm taking notes of whichever episodes I don't like, so that I never watch them again. 5 seasons is a lot of content to get through lol. But for now, I'm 2 episodes into season 3 and I haven't been disappointed yet. And given the next episode that was shot, "Shadow in the Dark", is coming up next, I'm gleefully looking forward to my next sit-down with the Dade crew.

After my first go-round many years ago, I would've rated the episode about a 6/10. After this rewatch I'll give the episode a generous 9/10. As I said about El Viejo, it may not look like "Vice" anymore, but at least (for the most part) it still feels like Miami Vice.

**Edit** I'm halfway through "Shadow" and Crockett's already got his Testarossa before it was given to him. "Stone's War" was shot 5th. Guess you can't avoid continuity no matter how you watch this show, lol.

Edited May 21, 2020 by TylerDurden389

[Vincent Hanna]

I read this one didn't air in the UK because it portrayed the IRA in a sympathetic light, guess they missed the part where the guy tries to blow up a CONCORDE at the end!!. Those censors weren't too bright, nor understood nuance.

Thought this was a really good episode, it's a much better political story than Free Verse or something. Saundra Santiago gives her best performance yet. Liam Neeson is decent. The love scene between them is way more intense than I remember, damn. 

8/10

[Tom]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Vincent Hanna:

I read this one didn't air in the UK because it portrayed the IRA in a sympathetic light, guess they missed the part where the guy tries to blow up a CONCORDE at the end!!. Those censors weren't too bright, nor understood nuance.

You need to understand this in context to the political opinion of the British government at that time which was exactly matching Richard Cross character’s opinion (All freedom fighters are terrorists and should be killed on sight, no trial, no negotiations, no concessions, blacking out all surpressionary measures that caused these riots; Cross said once “The Irish have rights” - but this was just lip service, most Irish were treated like black people in South African townships in the 80s). Needless to say that this was an extreme vigilante position no democratic government should adopt irrespective what the other side is doing, but that was exactly the reason British public TV BBC could not broadcast this episode as the government position in it (Cross) was clearly critized and also shown as illegal (Cross was arrested for just disregarding law).

PS there is a good chance that the Northern Ireland conflict is revived after Britain’s Brexit from the EU. UK signed a peace agreement in the late 90s with both Irish states based on a “no border” rule between Ireland and Northern Ireland. But as GB failed to find any solution how to maintain that no border situation after self-chosen Brexit on 1 Jan 2021 (Ireland will stay in EU, but Northern Ireland won’t), the old conflict might pop up again with unclear consequences when border and customs controls will be imposed again between Irish states.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Tom

[Robbie C.]

One of the challenges many Vice episodes have (this one, Free Verse, God's Work) is far too many people don't understand (or care to look into) the context of the time they were made. Vice tried to be 'edgy' in what it covered, and that makes it hard to translate or comprehend after the fact.

[Vincent Hanna]

8 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

One of the challenges many Vice episodes have (this one, Free Verse, God's Work) is far too many people don't understand (or care to look into) the context of the time they were made. Vice tried to be 'edgy' in what it covered, and that makes it hard to translate or comprehend after the fact.

You're right, my bad.

I just thought they did a good job of portraying the conflict objectively without taking sides. If Neeson's character was non-violent and the "Ghandi of Ireland" like Crockett says at one point and the British were depicted similarly to the national party in South Africa then it might've been an understandable reason for them to censor the episode but Neeson is explicitly shown to be the villain in the end. The censors didn't care about that subtly and they inadvertently strengthened the message of the story by banning it.

MV handled it in a very Star Trek kind of way where the petty squabbles of the British/Irish were beneath the Vice team, which was very refreshing to see.

Our governments still believe freedom fighters and whistleblowers are terrorists or enemies of the state. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Vincent Hanna

[RedDragon86]

That Black 

On 5/20/2020 at 4:30 AM, TylerDurden389 said:

I've reached season 3 during my rewatch of the show in production date order, rather than air date order. It's amazing how by starting with El Viejo in season 3, this episode helps ease us into the new direction the show was going, now that we've had an "appetizer", so to speak, with the aforementioned El Viejo. It wasn't nearly as jarring as my first go-round when I just watched them in the order my DVDs have them in. I definitely like this episode a lot more now. I like Gina and it's a shame after season 3 we didn't see much of her anymore. I love that R&B song they play throughout the episode. Liam Neeson is as charming as he is psychotic in this episode (I thought his bug-eyed/wide-eyed stare he does a few times was a little hammy, though, lol).  I was little sad at the end when Gina's forced to take him down. Of course the moment was slightly ruined for me when I noticed the stuntman laying on the ground moved his head before it cut to Liam's close-up. Obviously they didn't catch that in the days of standard definition and figured no one would notice, lol. And speaking of bloopers, at the end when Crockett and Tubbs take off (after finding Sweitek and Zito bound and gagged in their van), you can see Michael Talbott turn his head and laugh at the end of the shot, lol.

I also like the new direction Jan Hammer is starting to take the music, using lower pitched synth sounds for a darker tone and the obviously new sound of added heavy metal electric guitars. My overall thoughts on season 3 notwithstanding, it's kind of a shame that they didn't stick with this style for the later seasons. Sure it ain't the bright, sunny white on pastels we were used to at this point, but I feel this new take could've gave the series stronger legs to stand on than what they inevitably went with.

I'm not even halfway through the entire series yet, and I can already say for certain that from now on, with the exception of "Calderone's Return" in season 1 (parts 1 and 2 were shot with another episode in between. Guess they needed time for traveling to the island for part 2, lol), THIS is the order I'm gonna watch them in whenever I rewatch the series in the future. Though I'm taking notes of whichever episodes I don't like, so that I never watch them again. 5 seasons is a lot of content to get through lol. But for now, I'm 2 episodes into season 3 and I haven't been disappointed yet. And given the next episode that was shot, "Shadow in the Dark", is coming up next, I'm gleefully looking forward to my next sit-down with the Dade crew.

After my first go-round many years ago, I would've rated the episode about a 6/10. After this rewatch I'll give the episode a generous 9/10. As I said about El Viejo, it may not look like "Vice" anymore, but at least (for the most part) it still feels like Miami Vice.

**Edit** I'm halfway through "Shadow" and Crockett's already got his Testarossa before it was given to him. "Stone's War" was shot 5th. Guess you can't avoid continuity no matter how you watch this show, lol.

I totally agree, watching El Viejo lowers the expectations of this and help it it out. Still doesn't help seeing Stan and Zito wearing shorts with socked pulled up.

Wtf were they thinking.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

I know some didn't care for this episode as the season opener...but I really like this one, and it's one of my favorites of 3rd season! The guest-star power in this was fantastic...with Liam Neeson (superb actor in many movies—but I believe this episode was one of his “starts” in acting), Walter Gotell as Max Klizer (more famously known as General Gogal in several of Roger Moore's 007 James Bond movies in the 70's and early 80's), Paul Gleason, Jeff Fahey, etc...!

I also love the action and storyline...this one focusing more on Gina, which is rare. Usually the more personal plots always revolved around Crockett and Tubbs. Not to mention that Gina was unbelievably hot throughout!! The gunplay with Castillo, as well as Gina with Caroon (Neeson) at the end was awesome too! I also liked the music in this one, as well.  

The end of the Daytona was sad  but was shocking the first time you saw it , and Crockett's expression was somewhat understandable but humorous, while Tubbs keeps it together and just smiles while saying..."Sold!"  That's probably my favorite part of the episode!

The only aspect I noticed was missing, and I didn't care for as much, was the pastel clothes for Crockett and Tubbs.  The MV teal & pink color scheme was till very prevelant with the buildings and interiors for rooms , but was missing from the wardrobe.

A “fun” goof I noticed, again, was with Tubbs’ Caddy. Again (as I’ve noticed in other episodes), when Crockett & Tubbs were tailing Caroon’s partners, the Caddy went back-n-forth between the all black steering wheel one, and the white steering wheel one.  

I know the 1st and 2nd seasons both had “strong” openers--with "Brother's Keeper" (Pilot) and "Prodigal Son". However, I don't particularly care for "Prodigal Son". But, I thought "Irish Eyes Are Crying" was a strong season premiere and started the season off superbly! The only episode that should have been the season opener over this one was the original intended premiere—"El Viejo". Then we wouldn't have the whole "ghost Spyder" phenomena.  But, “Irish Eyes” is still awesome! Overall I really like this one and I originally gave it an 8. If I could change it, I’d probably bump it up to an 8.5-9!  

[vicegirl85]

This is one of my favorite MV episodes.  Since I've already given a detailed discussion of it in the past I won't repeat that, but I really like it a lot.  And the "special relationship" between Crockett and Gina is one of the aspects I liked best about it.

[ViceFanMan]

51 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

This is one of my favorite MV episodes.  Since I've already given a detailed discussion of it in the past I won't repeat that, but I really like it a lot.  And the "special relationship" between Crockett and Gina is one of the aspects I liked best about it.

Agreed...you can tell there’s a special bond & relationship between Crockett and Gina. Even after all they’ve been through, and others they’ve been with, there’s still something between them.  I’ve given reviews & discussions on every episode at some point in the past, but since I’m currently going through the whole series again, I’m re-stating thoughts and reviews...sometimes my views have changed somewhat, sometimes not.  

[wolfie1996]

On 7/30/2019 at 1:53 PM, Robbie C. said:

No apparently about it. The Provos in particular were quite into it. But it’s all part of the context of the times that might have shaped that episode. 

I'm sure you're right. Furthermore I believe quite a bit of support for them especially financial came from  the USA and it was  when this dried up (if it has) that the IRA starting talking re scaling it all down..and there they are now! Bona fide politicians! Amazing.