"Child's Play" - Season 4 /Episode #5

[Matt5]

I did enjoy the locations in this episode on the outskirts/ in and around Overtown . In particular the drive around and just in Overtown by the metro station . Interestingly they drive under the "Pilot" bridge seen for the second time in the series. Generally a good episode directed by Vern Gillum who went on to direct another 4 episodes of the show as well as a Season 2 "Nash Bridges " episode in 1996.  

Edited July 29, 2014 by Matt5

[Matt5]

Great picture. I hope you kept an eye on your car radio, lol.

 

 

Ha ha - this area is relatively unchanged but like a ghost town 

[miamijimf]

Looks like the Ace Theater seen in Child's Play when Crockett makes a U turn will survive.

http://therealdeal.com/miami/2016/07/15/segregation-era-movie-theater-in-coconut-grove-wins-national-historic-designation/

[Matt5]

1 hour ago, miamijimf said:

Looks like the Ace Theater seen in Child's Play when Crockett makes a U turn will survive.

http://therealdeal.com/miami/2016/07/15/segregation-era-movie-theater-in-coconut-grove-wins-national-historic-designation/

Great Jim! Such good news 

[Tom]

UNKNOWN LOCATION: CAROLINE´S/BOB´S HOME

this is NOT the same location as used in season 5 /To have and to hold, where they have a traditional single residential home with garden.

Very tough, but a few clues though...

• there seems to be a parking lot with lamps behind the hedge, as the small access road to the houses is maybe not planned for parking, just for loading/unloading...?
• the neighboring house seems to look exactly like Caroline´s and seems to be kind of a one-family kind of bungalow
• it is a real apartment not just a facade and studio set. Interior is rather modern compared to season 5´s home

not much to go with but worth a try...maybe close to FIU campus?

 

[Tom]

UNKNOWN LOCATION: THE CHURCH

(not the same church used in Too much, too late where Switek has his anonymous gamblers meet)

A small modern church open in the back (no elevated seating), square-shaped windows and a wooden roof. Outside seems to be quite a green neighborhood and a street. Does not look like Overtown. 

I checked churches of all sizes in Coconut Grove, as the Ace Theater was a filming location, also the churches that were used in other episodes (Gods work, Afternoon plane), but no find. Nearly no church has rectangular windows.

Could be have been torn down...

Edited July 17, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

CAROLINE´S/BILLY´S APARTMENT

I am convinced that this location is/was a collection of look-alike houses in a row (but with space in between each of them) like this in the NE grid, somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle between the studio, the location of the parking lot scene with Billy near FIU and the silo location at NE 161 Street. Also, the church could have been located there somewhere.

Here is a close match with a similarly looking access street at NE135 Street.

 

[Tom]

As for the unknown location of hospital scenes:

90% that they filmed either in Jackson Memorial Hospital or the University of Miami Hospital (formerly Biscayne General and the exterior used often by MV eg in Baby Blues, Miami Squeeze). The map shows that these are the only downtown hospitals (circled) nearby the other two downtown filming locations on N Miami Ave (also circled). Other hospitals used for interior filming in the series (North Shore in North Miami, Mount Sinai in MB) were most likely not used this time given by the lack of any matches (type of door signs, ceilings, colors....), but they only filmed in rooms here which gives no unique interior clues naturally. 

Comparing the episode with hardly any clues in it (no windows, no unique marks) and both hospital interior pictures available on the internet (first pic: Miami University, second: Jackson), I can´t say. Both have relatively low ceilings with rectangular lights. Colors are all the same in hospitals and might change over time.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

I just recognized that they used the same church in this episode as in Too much too late where Switek´s gambling meet was. Same white squared columns, even the colorful picture on the wall behind is exactly the same.

 

[Tom]

UNKNOWN LOCATION FOUND? THE SMALL CHURCH 

I think I found the "church" and now it is clear why I haven´t been able to find it anywhere around Coconut Grove despite checking all churches. It is long gone, but I have some significant evidence where it was. In fact it was a normal building (not recognizable as a traditional church from outside, but with church-like seat rows inside).

We all know that this episode has the short scene of Crockett making a U-turn in front of the Ace Theater 3664 Grand Ave. That never made sense to me, as there is not a single other location known in that area. All other locations were downtown Miami or North Beach (silos and parking lot with Billy).

The key clues in the episode is the roof and the overall shape of the church which is unique.

• The roof is clearly pointed towards both corners and is slanted (see pictures below).
• The interior room is not square shaped but has a narrower part only on the right side in the back section of the church. We can clearly see that in Too much too late and also here in Child´s play.(see pic below)

When taking both clues into account which combine to a very unique combination, we find a "church" just across the street from the Ace Theater, but is it gone now. But the unique shape, the roof and the greenery in front of the church clearly match what we see in the episode. As additional proof, the 2005 historic aerial confirms that the building is NOT narrowed on the upper left corner, only on the right. That is a bit blurry on the 1986 historic aerial, but very clear on 2005. The building was torn down after 2007.

Of course, I tried to find more information about an abandoned former church there, but no luck. I also searched whole Grove and other areas for a similar looking building but no luck.

Thus, I say at 99% confidence, this was the church location for both episodes (CP and TMTL) as it clearly is the same church. The approximate address was 3635 Grand Ave and there is a big condo building on its lot now (current main address of the complex: 3635 Grand Ave) which also houses a Coconut Grove Church of God. 

See my evidence below.The comparison of current and historic aerials shows that many buildings have been torn down there since the 80s. 

Feedback appreciated. But I don´t think we will get better proof than that with an abandoned location like this.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

THE SILO SCENES: NE159 Street/West Dixie Highway, North Miami

@C Glide wrote on his location site that he still needs to line up the tanks exactly like on screen to see if it fits.

I did just that. See below. It matches perfectly.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

THE DRIVING SCENE WITH BILLY: NE151 STREET/FIU STADIUM

Also lines up perfectly, as found by C Glide. Most of the parking lot looks exactly the same as in 1987. Only the exact spot where Crockett parked, is now occupied by a tree.

 

[Tom]

Am 17.7.2020 um 21:33 schrieb Tom:

UNKNOWN LOCATION: CAROLINE´S/BOB´S HOME

this is NOT the same location as used in season 5 /To have and to hold, where they have a traditional single residential home with garden.

Very tough, but a few clues though...

• there seems to be a parking lot with lamps behind the hedge, as the small access road to the houses is maybe not planned for parking, just for loading/unloading...?
• the neighboring house seems to look exactly like Caroline´s and seems to be kind of a one-family kind of bungalow
• it is a real apartment not just a facade and studio set. Interior is rather modern compared to season 5´s home

not much to go with but worth a try...maybe close to FIU campus?

 

 

 

I found the Caroline´s/Bob´s home. A townhouse condo ensemble built in 1982 in Aventura, quite close to the silo site and the parking lot locations used in this episode.

LOCATION FOUND: BALLARD CONDO 3073 NE 183 Ln, Aventura (the interior filming was done at 3073 NE 183 Ln unit#73, the first townhouse at the curve), but they filmed it like Crockett drives up at the third townhouse from the curve.

What fits: the small access road where Crockett arrives, the parallel road, the 2-story townhouses and its layout (with the second - the "Ballard" one - shifted back a bit compared to the first one after the curve): the big window and its shape, size and dividers on the front side left of the entrance (seen from inside), the stairs and the layout of the living room, even the three steps to the seating area or open kitchen is there!

What does not fit at first glance: 3069 -the second house that Crockett seems to approach - has some steps outside of the entrance which is missing in the episode and the heavy vegetation on the parallel street or parking lot is missing as there is NE 183 Street running parallel to NE 183 Lane. On the 1986 historic aerial there is much less vegetation as in the episode, but this could have grown in 1.5 years.... 

BUT THEN I realized that it works! They cheated with the interior shots and Ballard´s townhouse we see in the episode is in fact the 3073 one at the curve. We only see Crockett approaching the second house (3069) with his car, but then it cuts and he knocks at the door. I always wondered why the filmed it that way. Now I know. With the 3073 one, the interior shots fully match, also the A/C outlet above the kitchen (just shifted a bit to the right), the kitchen itself and the exterior shot of the entrance fully matches with the double door without outside stairs separated by the same small wall from the window!

Bottom line: 99% fits, the no-fits left are explainable (vegetation). I am amazed how close and how many unique layout similarities there are. If this is NOT it then it is a nearly identical twin condo townhouse that was just built to confuse me (us).

Interior pics and entrance pic of the filming location: https://www.redfin.com/FL/Aventura/3073-NE-183rd-Ln-33160/unit-73/home/42938035.

We are very lucky as this condo and its pics was just listed 12 days ago on redfin! Before that, it would have been impossible to find interior pics and to prove this location!

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

So, I figured it out now how they did it.

Sorry, but that was a tricky one and I am adding another post rather than extending the first as it is so long already. They have fooled me again with a zoom used.

Crockett is pulling up at the THIRD townhouse from the corner, not the second!

First the distance: from the curve to the 3rd house it is approx. 45m (checked on Google metrics), which matches what we see in the episode.

Second, behind Crockett we see the side wall of the second house, not the first, because the side wall from the first with the balconies does not match with what we see in the episode. But the second one has the same wall to the right and below and an opening left of it. Just the dark glass veranda we can see now was not there in 1987.

Third, the small lawn in front of the second house matches what we see in the episode.

Fourth, the slight elevation between 183 Lane and parallel running NE183 Street (street level a bit higher than Lane) matches with the episode as well.

More interior pics as evidence below. I also add a few pics of the entrance at the curve where they filmed the front door scenes.

I am 100% sure now that we have found the right place. All matches up perfectly. Another tough nut solved. ENJOY!

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Tom

[Matt5]

12 hours ago, Tom said:

So, I figured it out now how they did it.

Sorry, but that was a tricky one and I am adding another post rather than extending the first as it is so long already. They have fooled me again with a zoom used.

Crockett is pulling up at the THIRD townhouse from the corner, not the second!

First the distance: from the curve to the 3rd house it is approx. 45m (checked on Google metrics), which matches what we see in the episode.

Second, behind Crockett we see the side wall of the second house, not the first, because the side wall from the first with the balconies does not match with what we see in the episode. But the second one has the same wall to the right and below and an opening left of it. Just the dark glass veranda we can see now was not there in 1987.

Third, the small lawn in front of the second house matches what we see in the episode.

Fourth, the slight elevation between 183 Lane and parallel running NE183 Street (street level a bit higher than Lane) matches with the episode as well.

More interior pics as evidence below. I also add a few pics of the entrance at the curve where they filmed the front door scenes.

I am 100% sure now that we have found the right place. Too many coincidences.

 

Wow well done. Aventura too, The Courtyards of Aventura block.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

Am 19.7.2020 um 12:12 schrieb Tom:

As for the unknown location of hospital scenes:

90% that they filmed either in Jackson Memorial Hospital or the University of Miami Hospital (formerly Biscayne General and the exterior used often by MV eg in Baby Blues, Miami Squeeze). The map shows that these are the only downtown hospitals (circled) nearby the other two downtown filming locations on N Miami Ave (also circled). Other hospitals used for interior filming in the series (North Shore in North Miami, Mount Sinai in MB) were most likely not used this time given by the lack of any matches (type of door signs, ceilings, colors....), but they only filmed in rooms here which gives no unique interior clues naturally. 

Comparing the episode with hardly any clues in it (no windows, no unique marks) and both hospital interior pictures available on the internet (first pic: Miami University, second: Jackson), I can´t say. Both have relatively low ceilings with rectangular lights. Colors are all the same in hospitals and might change over time.

 

 

 

After further scrutiny it is 99% sure that they filmed the hospital scenes in Jackson Memorial at 1611 NW 12th Ave. 

next to location logistics, Jackson Memorial has the lowest possible ceilings on every picture I have found (ceiling just above the doors) whereas Miami Hospital has much higher ceilings throughout. Some Jackson Memorial picture above and below.

Additionally, the only time in the series where they used a downtown hospital in another episode it was the Jackson Memorial in Yankee Dollar.

[Tom]

A few more pics from Caroline´s/Bob´s apartment, especially the entrance and the living room as we see it in the episode, this time unfurnished.

 

[Matt5]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:14 PM, Tom said:

After further scrutiny it is 99% sure that they filmed the hospital scenes in Jackson Memorial at 1611 NW 12th Ave. 

next to location logistics, Jackson Memorial has the lowest possible ceilings on every picture I have found (ceiling just above the doors) whereas Miami Hospital has much higher ceilings throughout. Some Jackson Memorial picture above and below.

Additionally, the only time in the series where they used a downtown hospital in another episode it was the Jackson Memorial in Yankee Dollar.

Great info Tom they also used Jackson for “Prodigal Son” And the Miami Vice Movie in 2006.

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Matt5:

Great info Tom they also used Jackson for “Prodigal Son” And the Miami Vice Movie in 2006.

Yes, thanks, I forgot to mention Prodigal Son but that further supports my point that Jackson was their "favorite" for any downtown hospital (in first three seasons they rather built hospital sets in studio than using real hospitals in general).

[Matt5]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

Yes, thanks, I forgot to mention Prodigal Son but that further supports my point that Jackson was their "favorite" for any downtown hospital (in first three seasons they rather built hospital sets in studio than using real hospitals in general).

Thats right from “Theresa” they used real Hospitals till the end of the show for just under two and a half seasons. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

THE SKID ROW APARTMENT = INTERIOR OF SENATOR HOTEL (1201 Collins Ave)?

Maybe it´s a crazy idea, but there are some similarities and it looks too large for a set. Also outside Crockett´s window there seems to be a real window/corner wall. Comparison photos from Milk Run. the only interior proof of the Senator that I could find.

1) The Senator was defunct by end of 1987 and finally razed exactly on 12 Oct 1988 despite heavy protests organized by the MDPL who managed to delay demolition by more than one year. In Sept 1987 when this episode was filmed the Senator was already empty and ready to be razed.

2) same door color (turquoise) and same color bands on near the floor

3) the same corrugated door frames

4) The Senator also had apartments (eg equipped with kitchen) not just rooms. This also means that interior of apartments (colors, floors, etc) may have varied. 

5) similar smaller "windows" on the aisles

6) and... a very similar (the same?) pink-turquoise floor pattern on the aisle in 1984 and 1987 episodes!

Feedback appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

 

Not a crazy idea.  Vice and other action shows like Burn Notice loved abandoned and soon to be demolished buildings.  I just wish I had the time to really get into these unknowns.  Not that I could do as well as you and the other guys.  Will try to review the ep and check it out. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by miamijimf

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb miamijimf:

 

Not a crazy idea.  Vice and other action shows like Burn Notice loved abandoned and soon to be demolished buildings.  I just wish I had the time to really get into these unknowns.  Not that I could do as well as you and the other guys.  Will try to review the ep and check it out. 

Thanks! This idea has flashed me today as I realized that they have not used any sets other than OCB office scenes or morgue scenes in the studio since mid-season 3 for budget reasons and that the Senator was demolished around that time. (And I think I found more than just conincidental similarities...)

The only confirmed non-OCB/police station/morgue set I remember in season 4 and 5 is Yvonne´s house interior in Too much, too late. Most people do not realize that it´s much more difficult and costly to build a set of a "fucked-up" skid row apartment that has to look credibly old than to build a decently looking and clean morgue set.

The warehouse they used in the weapon selling scene is probably a real warehouse along the car drive between the locations used in Downtown.  But it will be impossible to find, as either torn down or no interior pics available to compare.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Tom,  Found two old photos of the Senator that you may not have seen.  One shows small windows and the other a floor pattern.  Hopefully they will be helpful.  The interior color pattern in the Senator that you pointed out is intriguing.

[Tom]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

Tom,  Found two old photos of the Senator that you may not have seen.  One shows small windows and the other a floor pattern.  Hopefully they will be helpful.  The interior color pattern in the Senator that you pointed out is intriguing.

Thanks, Jim! I knew the porch photo already but the other was new to me! The second clearly shows that the Senator had some unusual small windows in unusual places (quite high up). Even if the windows on the second pic do not matches exactly with the windows we see in CP in the hallway, it is a further clue that the Senator might be it.

The floor pattern on the porch does not help much. We can also see the pattern inside in Milk Run (see pic below). But this is the pattern in the lobby, on a marble floor. The pattern on the hallway floors is usually different in all hotels, especially since the floor is not marble there, but rather something else.

I definetely believe that the Senator has too many matches. The floor pattern, the door frames, the door colors and the thick color bands above the floor are too much for pure coincidence. Also that the Senator had apartments with kitchen too which was not the case in many other hotels. Let´s not forget: many hotels at that time had some general color or style concept that was applied in many areas of the hotel, not just the lobby.

I would like to find out if that unique wall pattern we see on the outside left of Crockett´s stakeout window in CP can be found around the Senator as well. That would be the smoking gun.

P.S. I also tried to match the wall or wallpaper patterns. There was no match, but as said the Senator also had apartments and each had a different wallpaper. The halllway walls might also be different throughout the Senator floors (in many hotels there is one wing or hallway for internal employees and these have usually different floor and walls that are cheaper than in the guest areas. E.g. In Death and the lady they used the internal wing&a staff room for Jill´s apartment, thus the hallway had a concrete floor and no carpet.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Tom