Episode #16 "Rites of Passage"

[sdiegolo78]

Just my personal view on this episode. For one, it had great guest stars such as Pam Grier and John Turturro who had a supporting role in 'Live and die in LA' the same year (1985), playing another sleazy character. He's great actor for those roles. And Pam Grier was superb in Tarantino's 'Jackie Brown'.

I liked Castillo's face (see attachment below) when Tubbs reunited with Valerie in his office, that was a WTF moment for the lieutenant . The story of Diane in Miami and her demise were very touching. Damn I so wish she hadn't made that call to Traynor...she was recovering...but I understand that was part of the script and the drama. The moment Sonny calls Rico & Diane to deliver the terrible news was very moving. And the foreigner song couldn't have been more appropriate.

I love the lighter moments with Switek, Zito and C&T early in the episode in the OCB parking lot. And them filming people at the house party posing as pest management people .

The climax of the episode was great, with C&T breaking a dozen of traffic laws to get there in time. And the final shootout was pure MV style. Everything that made this show great.

My score is a 9/10.

 

 

[sdiegolo78]

38 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

John Turturro is one the shows best villains. Awesome actor.

Producers should have used him more throughout the series.

Edited April 11, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[ViceFanMan]

7 minutes ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Producers should have used him more throughout the series.

Actually I think RedDragon86 said that, but I agree...and I agree producers should have used him more. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[sdiegolo78]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

Actually I think RedDragon86 said that, but I agree...and I agree producers should have used him more. 

great minds think alike

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said:

great minds think alike

Yes they do!  

[RedDragon86]

15 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

 

 I totally understand that some men like more intelligent and “strong” women...I myself do. I don’t care how attractive physically she is, ditzy or an airhead is so unattractive to me! But, Gina wasn’t “easy” or dumb...she was actually very intelligent and strong. She was just ready for a more serious relationship, whereas at the time Crockett was not. 

However, to me there’s definite differences between being strong & independent...and a manipulative user, a “fake” who only cares about themselves.  Pam Grier is an awesome actress & did play Valerie perfectly...but her character was trouble & poison for Rico (probably for any man)!  

At the end of “Freefall”, which I was very disappointed in, we really don’t know what happened to anyone! Maybe Tubbs did return to New York...but I’d like to hope it wasn’t to Valerie anymore, that he’d finally figured out and come to realize she was toxic. I’d like to think he eventually got back with Alicia Austin (from “Afternoon Plane”). But, that’s just me. 

Gina was most certainly not dumb, her being a Vice detective proves that, but she did make herself easily available for Sonny when ever he felt like it.

She even said herself that she was the occasional pitstop in "Nobody Lives Forever"

[wolfie1996]

16 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

At the end of “Freefall”, which I was very disappointed in, we really don’t know what happened to anyone! Maybe Tubbs did return to New York...

I was  disappointed in this too. It was an unsatisfactory ending considering we'd been following these characters for five years. Superficially emotive..Sonny and Rico parting with no indication they would ever see each other again and not even a future plan mentioned by either. Bleak and pessimistic. They deserved more, and we did too.

[vicegirl85]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Gina was most certainly not dumb, her being a Vice detective proves that, but she did make herself easily available for Sonny when ever he felt like it.

She even said herself that she was the occasional pitstop in "Nobody Lives Forever"

I think this was true in the earlier days, i.e. S1.  However, after that scene in Nobody Lives Forever, it was always my impression that both Sonny and Gina backed away from their physical and romantic relationship (for the most part).  I felt like there were always strong feelings and on Gina's part, she maintained a romantic interest in him.  But I didn't see indications that she later went to bed with him, or even that they had dates or hook-ups. 

I believe Sonny had feelings for her that he didn't acknowledge (based on some of his actions in Prodigal Son, Irish Eyes, and Bought and Paid For), but aside of the rather odd scene in Blood and Roses, where he went to her apartment as she was getting ready for her evening with Frank Mosca), and kissed her, he never admitted to any feelings for her but friendship.  

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Gina was most certainly not dumb, her being a Vice detective proves that, but she did make herself easily available for Sonny when ever he felt like it.

She even said herself that she was the occasional pitstop in "Nobody Lives Forever"

She was making herself available to Crockett at first, because she was wanting a more serious relationship with him...but at that point in his life (and the show) Sonny was not wanting a serious relationship with anyone. As much as I love Crockett as being cool & the “good guy” you want to be...I don’t agree with or like how he treated girls and relationships at the beginning of the show. Very immature and high school-ish. 

But, Gina was not making herself “easy” so to speak...and her comment of being “The pit stop” was in hurt & anger...because she was looking for something more, not meaning that’s what she wanted to be or was okay with.

However, even though they supposedly were just eventual “friends” after that, they continued to have attraction for each other throughout the show...just by the looks and mannerisms when around each other.

I don’t know if this was planned, to supposedly always leave open the option that they might return to a romantic relationship, or if Don and Saundra just decided to do that, or if natural chemistry between actors when in character had them doing it without even realizing it...but it’s there. 

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, wolfie1996 said:

I was  disappointed in this too. It was an unsatisfactory ending considering we'd been following these characters for five years. Superficially emotive..Sonny and Rico parting with no indication they would ever see each other again and not even a future plan mentioned by either. Bleak and pessimistic. They deserved more, and we did too.

Amen!

[Jack Gretsky]

"Rites of Passage" is a good example of a Vice episode with a sunny, partying flavor, but with the wages of crime and corruption blotting all of that superficial fun.  I have to confess I've never seen any of Pam Grier's 1970s action movies - I know her best from this show and Jackie Brown.  She's excellent here - the speculations on this thread about a spin-off show for Valerie are understandable.

This is an early role for Barton Fink himself, John Turturro.  He's masterful, but it's his underling, Lile, who sticks in my mind.  He's the creep who grooms Diane and looks like a debauched Tom Cruise.  His expressions of boredom to over-the-top laughing in the Diane-tries-on-new-clothes-and-does-cocaine montage crack me up.  

Foreigner's "I Want To Know What Love Is" really adds to the emotion of the revelation of Diane's fate. And clearly Traynor is obsessed with The Reds - their tracks are played at every one of his parties! 

On a lighter note, this is the one where the bug's wing on the van swats Zito off the roof.  And poor Switek - he's making all of these bad bug/buzz puns and no one notices. (Or are just ignoring him.) 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Jack Gretsky

[Adrian321]

On 9/15/2014 at 10:07 PM, Vincent Hanna said:

You guys are nuts for giving this a 6/10. It's one of the best in the entire series. A 10/10 easily.

 

Daniel Pyne wrote some of the of strongest eps, Jan hammer's music is awesome, You got Pam Grier and the chick who plays Diane who are smoking. You got a Foreigner montage. There's actual emotion and character development.

 

I wish there were more eps like this.

I dissagree, and if people who give it 6/10 are nuts, then what am I for giving it a 5/10 ? Bad naming people for their opinions doesn't lead to good conversations.

The only reason that I give it a 5/10 is because of the character development and the shiny intro. Outside of that........ not that entertaining.........

Not one of the worst episodes in the series...... but not a good one either.

[ViceFanMan]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:27 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Watched this one again last night. ‘Detective Valerie Gordon’...definitely Tubbs’ femme fatale! This was a good episode, and we get to know a little more about Rico’s past. The plot of Valerie showing up looking for her “lost” addict sister was good, and I thought Pam Grier gave an amazing performance! 

The fashion and music were really good, as well...Foreigner’s “I Want To Know What Love Is”, was an emotional and perfect choice for Diane’s death scene.  To this day, every time I hear that song I always immediately think of this episode. 

However, I’ll be honest and say I never liked or cared for the character of Valerie. I fully understood her feelings & motives of trying to rescue her sister...but, as for a true relationship & putting forth the love & commitment one takes...I don’t think she cared, nor was capable. 

She “cared” about Tubbs to an extent, but not the way he loved her...and she knew that!  She used & manipulated anyone she needed to, to get what she wanted and to carry out her own agenda.  Rico truly loved her, but she was toxic...she was poison!  

No matter when, what situation, or place they encountered each other...she always caused Tubbs grief, left him broken-hearted and treated him like crap. But, he never seemed to be able to figure that out...or chose not to acknowledge it. I really wish the character of Alicia Austin, from “Afternoon Plane”, could have been implemented in more episodes...she could have been the perfect love-interest for Rico.  

But, the plot, performances, action, music, etc...made this one a good one for Season 1.  I originally rated it a 7...still stand by that. 

Above was my latest review last year. Watching this one again tonight on my Blu-ray set. Nothing like a little ‘Vile-Val’ before bed.   

Edited May 20, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

I understand why you don't like her but I think it's because he loved her and she didn't love him, which made her distant, cold and sort untrustworthy at times.

With Valerie, Rico is like a love sick teenager chasing a girl in high school who is not really interested.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I understand why you don't like her but I think it's because he loved her and she didn't love him, which made her distant, cold and sort untrustworthy at times.

With Valerie, Rico is like a love sick teenager chasing a girl in high school who is not really interested.

 

I think you’re right, Rico was infatuated with her, like a high school teenager, but couldn’t seem to bring himself to acknowledge it...or grow-up & move on! 

Val was a user & a manipulator. She only cared about herself and what she wanted, or whatever her agenda was. She only got with Tubbs when it suited her purpose, or she needed something from him. She lead him on when needed & used his attraction for her, to her own advantage.

Then she’d leave him broken-hearted & devastated when it was all said-n-done. I’ve said this before...Val was toxic.  She was like a drug—at first she seems amazing & pleasurable...then you find out she’s poison & ruins you the longer you’re around her. She was definitely Tubbs’ femme-fatale! 

[Jack Gretsky]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

I think you’re right, Rico was infatuated with her, like a high school teenager, but couldn’t seem to bring himself to acknowledge it...or grow-up & move on! 

Val was a user & a manipulator. She only cared about herself and what she wanted, or whatever her agenda was. She only got with Tubbs when it suited her purpose, or she needed something from him. She lead him on when needed & used his attraction for her, to her own advantage.

Then she’d leave him broken-hearted & devastated when it was all said-n-done. I’ve said this before...Val was toxic.  She was like a drug—at first she seems amazing & pleasurable...then you find out she’s poison & ruins you the longer you’re around her. She was definitely Tubbs’ femme-fatale! 

Valerie was certainly Tubbs' femme fatale, but I still wish he'd been more obsessed with Maria McDonald's Alicia!  lol

Edited May 20, 2022 by Jack Gretsky

[ViceFanMan]

37 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

Valerie was certainly Tubbs' femme fatale, but I still wish he'd been more obsessed with Maria McDonald's Alicia!  lol

Agreed!! 

[RedDragon86]

After watching this again last night do you think Sonny and Rico gave a false statement on what happened to Traynor?

Side notes- brilliant episode on so many levels and what strikes me is the acting is top notch, John Turturro is great as the evil whoremaster. There wasn't one average performance from anybody.

I love the minor details as well like when Valerie took her shoes of at Traynor's place so they wouldn't hear the soles of her shoes as she goes in for the kill, and the why Traynor says "how many"  wouldn't surprise me if Michael Mann told them to do and say that.

10/10.

Edited August 19, 2023 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

21 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

After watching this again last night do you think Sonny and Rico gave a false statement on what happened to Traynor?

I think definitely...to help Valerie, as they understood why she did what she did. But, it would have ended her career if they had given a “complete” statement of what actually happened. They gave some story though, as later when they see Valerie again she tells them thank you for what you said & did for me last year...or something to that effect.

But, Valerie is not my favorite recurring character...total user, manipulator, and only cared about herself & what she wanted in that moment.  She never loved Tubbs...only used him when it suited her purpose. Definitely Tubbs’ femme-fatale. Maybe if they had given the complete truth in this episode, it would have saved Tubbs a lot of heartache in the future. 

[Robbie C.]

Agree completely about Valerie. And I agree if he'd come clean about what she did it would have both saved him some heartache and given the character room to grow. But I think even this early on they'd kind of decided to keep Tubbs in the background to a degree. That didn't stop them from teasing us with hints about what Tubbs could have become, but exorcising the ghost of Valerie from his bedroom closet would have been a major step forward.