Episode #22 "Lombard"

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Daytona74 said:

Just watched "Lombard" again the other night.

I don't think I have watched any other episode as many times as Lombard. They just got everything so right. All the small details, like Lombard's back story, or Dennis Farina playing him as a ruthless mobster, who at the same time could be a caring and remorseful dad. And Crockett being torn between performing his duty as a policeman and his grudge against Lombard for having had Barbara Carrow killed.

The whole look at the subject, the atmosphere, and the way of telling the story are just quintessentially Michael Mann. It definitely reminds me of elements of the movie "Heat".

And Jan Hammer's "One Way Out" is so perfect, as well as "Lombard Trial". Not his best works ever as such (I would give that distinction to "Golden Triangle"), but so fitting at moments like the opening scene on the boat, or the attempted hit on Lombard after his business lunch.

"Lombard" is my number one all-time favorite episode for these reasons.

Love the episode Lombard too. Great characterization, plot, and music! However, in my opinion a few other episodes also truly captured what MV was all about--from plot, characters, cinematography, filming locations, colors & lighting, music, action, clothes, etc... : Pilot, Hit List/ Calderone's Demise 2-parter,  Smuggler's Blues, Great McCarthy, No Exit, Out Where the Buses Don't Run, Little Miss Dangerous, Death and the Lady, God's Work, etc...just to name a few. 

[Dadrian]

I’m having some sizzling hot Turkish coffee right now 

[Matt5]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:27 PM, Dadrian said:

I’m having some sizzling hot Turkish coffee right now 

Ha ha ! Great @Dadrian

[Rattlehead]

This episode is nearly perfect! I feel the ending was a bit of a cop-out but I don't have a better suggestion. I love the Lombard theme (I play it often on guitar) in addition to U2's The Wire, the main guest stars, certainly in my top 10.

[Bren10]

It was indeed a good use of Wire from the underrated Unforgettable Fire album.  Many people wouldn't have otherwise heard that song.  There's a couple of good remixes on the 25th anniversary edition.

[Joseph]

Lombard was described in One Eyed Jack as someone that would cut off his grandmothers hand for a dollar, or something like that, but we find out that isn't necessarily true.  He was loyal, and did care about family.  Crockett and Tubbs warm up to him, and even start to like him.  Lombard is my favorite villain, and I love all 3 episodes that he appears in, but it's Dennis Farina that brings his character to life. Lombard has more dimensions than the typical Vice villain, he's a criminal, but not bad, well not really.  They kind of keep him from looking too bad as well, he was confused when Crockett brought up the death of Barbara Carroll, and then says he didn't order the hit.  I believe it wasn't his idea, but at the same time it was his organization that did it, and someone in his organization, maybe Demarco himself that ordered it.  He was guilty of letting it happen, or just not really caring.  I felt bad because you could see he trusted people, namely Charlie, they were together for along time and Charlie says "haven't I always taken care of you?"  That's why when Librizzi's guy told on him, Lombard didn't believe it, he thinks these people are like him, loyal.  Of course what does he expect?  Librizzi is boss, so no one is going to go against the boss, it's just dumb.  Especially when it comes to organized crime.  Everyone would lose their organization under those circumstances.  Lombard is a charismatic personality, that is charming, he likes Crockett and Tubbs too, even inviting them on the yacht for a weekend.  Going back to his introduction in One Eyed Jack, you see he's smart too, that's why when Demarco was wearing a wire, he knew something was up, I think he figured out Tubbs was a cop.  Going to World of Trouble, I hate how he just kills himself, he's been a survivor all of this time, and he's clever, you would think he would be able to find another way out.  I love this show and these episodes so much.  

[RedDragon86]

Watching the classic episode Lombard last night. Seeing as its a mob episode, is this moment a reference to The Godfather. The guy driving Michael to the meet does the same thing and switches back onto a different lane. I know Michael Mann is a big fan of that film and there was also reference in Thief as well.

 

[summer84]

Seen on the left first assistant director on 15 Miami Vice episodes spread over S1 and S2, Marty Eli Schwartz.

I noticed it randomly in a insta post and he confirmed it to me. Uncredited on IMDB.

 

[Tom]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb summer84:

Seen on the left first assistant director on 15 Miami Vice episodes spread over S1 and S2, Marty Eli Schwartz.

I noticed it randomly in a insta post and he confirmed it to me. Uncredited on IMDB.

 

Yeah right. He was also in Made for each other as the construction worker who fell out of the dixie toilet when the cement truck was stolen. 

[summer84]

Never knew that. Gotta check it out.

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/30/2009 at 6:02 PM, Ell.a said:

The female assassin looks and moves like a man. Even his/her way of walking and posture look very male. Was (s)he really a woman?

That's Trini De Soto 2.0 resuscitated

[Matt5]

This episode starring the great Dennis Farina where he steals the show much like he did 4 years later in “World of Trouble”.

10/10

[Adrian321]

I did not like this finale at all.......... Even S3's finale is stronger in my opinion. I may just not get the "Lombard" character. Also, the episode was mostly boring, and the finale is uncertain and also a bit stupid. Not to mention, that putting anything in S1 after Evan is...... very tricky.  Also, the continuation to this is like 4 seasons later. If the start of S2 solved this problem, maybe I would've liked this more.

Anyways..... 6.5/10 (a weak Season 1 episode,especially for a finale)

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

2 hours ago, Adrian321 said:

I did not like this finale at all.......... Even S3's finale is stronger in my opinion. I may just not get the "Lombard" character. Also, the episode was mostly boring, and the finale is uncertain and also a bit stupid. Not to mention, that putting anything in S1 after Evan is...... very tricky.  Also, the continuation to this is like 4 seasons later. If the start of S2 solved this problem, maybe I would've liked this more.

Anyways..... 6.5/10 (a weak Season 1 episode,especially for a finale)

I can understand why you don't like it, as Lombard is one of the main villains of season 1 (he's referred to in conversation a few times after 'One-Eyed Jack') yet he only appears in two episodes (a tenuous recurrence?). I think the finale was meant to humanize & enrich the Lombard character, since up to that point the audience knew him superficially as a crime boss heavy.

In reality, if Dennis Farina wasn't so busy with "Crime Story" and a burgeoning character actor career, maybe he would've made an earlier reappearance as Lombard, but that's where things get a little muddy. What's left ambiguous at the end of 'Lombard' is if those hitman ice him or not, but we find out different in 'World of Trouble'. However, that episode aired as a "lost" episode, so to me it feels like Lombard's return is an afterthought, so we easily could've been left with the way the season 1 finale ended. I did like both episodes though, and I feel there was some level of pathos to the Lombard character, since his organization turned on him, and he had a couple different issues with his son.

[Adrian321]

On 3/12/2021 at 7:28 PM, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

I can understand why you don't like it, as Lombard is one of the main villains of season 1 (he's referred to in conversation a few times after 'One-Eyed Jack') yet he only appears in two episodes (a tenuous recurrence?). I think the finale was meant to humanize & enrich the Lombard character, since up to that point the audience knew him superficially as a crime boss heavy.

In reality, if Dennis Farina wasn't so busy with "Crime Story" and a burgeoning character actor career, maybe he would've made an earlier reappearance as Lombard, but that's where things get a little muddy. What's left ambiguous at the end of 'Lombard' is if those hitman ice him or not, but we find out different in 'World of Trouble'. However, that episode aired as a "lost" episode, so to me it feels like Lombard's return is an afterthought, so we easily could've been left with the way the season 1 finale ended. I did like both episodes though, and I feel there was some level of pathos to the Lombard character, since his organization turned on him, and he had a couple different issues with his son.

I did like "One eyed Jack" from earlier in the series, however, this finale is just.......... too weak......... weakest finale in the series. Not bad per se, just "weak-for-a-finale" like. We got some nice content here and there, but putting this as a finale, immediately after "Evan" was a bad choice. Season 1 had the weakest finale, Season 3 the weakest intro, in my opinion. I don't say that S3's finale was much better, but I enjoyed it a bit more than this one.

Also, the fact that Lombard is such an early antagonist, that is left out for 4 entire seasons, before making a final return is just........ a bad choice. I could've understood the ambiguous ending, IF, the Lombard problem was solved in season 2, or 3 at max. Also, Lombard had few appearances, so his character is nowhere near as defining as Calderone.

I think Calderone is the "Strongest" antagonist. Why ? He started the series. Lombard is just a........ "side piece" for me. Doesn't add much to the story, and appears only for 3 times.

[Robbie C.]

I've always been kinda meh on Lombard. Is he an interesting villain? Sure, but mostly because of how Dennis Farina plays him. But he just doesn't feel quite "right" for Vice. The whole "sitting down with the mobster" thing feels more like a New York cop show piece than anything else.

Calderone? He's more of an invisible force in many ways than an actual villain. And Vice was never about individual villains on the whole as it was the idea of the endless nature of the "war on drugs" and the role of the government in that war. Sure, you'd get some really good villains from time to time, but they weren't the constant. The Peruvian marching dust was, along with the role of many shadowy agencies in its trafficking. Lombard didn't quite fit with that narrative, which makes him kind of jarring, even on an unconscious level.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 3/14/2021 at 11:36 AM, Robbie C. said:

I've always been kinda meh on Lombard. Is he an interesting villain? Sure, but mostly because of how Dennis Farina plays him. But he just doesn't feel quite "right" for Vice. The whole "sitting down with the mobster" thing feels more like a New York cop show piece than anything else.

Calderone? He's more of an invisible force in many ways than an actual villain. And Vice was never about individual villains on the whole as it was the idea of the endless nature of the "war on drugs" and the role of the government in that war. Sure, you'd get some really good villains from time to time, but they weren't the constant. The Peruvian marching dust was, along with the role of many shadowy agencies in its trafficking. Lombard didn't quite fit with that narrative, which makes him kind of jarring, even on an unconscious level.

I totally get what you're coming from with Lombard feeling like his character and the elements he supplies are more from a New York cop show; I can really see that (not just because of Farina's later work in "Law & Order" either). He had something of an impact for me, but then again I do think someone like Mario Fuente or Octavio Escandero (yeah, I know he's in a humorous episode, but he's so flamboyant that he left an impression on me; plus, I think he was revived by Legba and years down the road became "The Skinner" in "Dexter":-) have more of that Vice vibe.

[Adrian321]

On 3/14/2021 at 5:36 PM, Robbie C. said:

I've always been kinda meh on Lombard. Is he an interesting villain? Sure, but mostly because of how Dennis Farina plays him. But he just doesn't feel quite "right" for Vice. The whole "sitting down with the mobster" thing feels more like a New York cop show piece than anything else.

Calderone? He's more of an invisible force in many ways than an actual villain. And Vice was never about individual villains on the whole as it was the idea of the endless nature of the "war on drugs" and the role of the government in that war. Sure, you'd get some really good villains from time to time, but they weren't the constant. The Peruvian marching dust was, along with the role of many shadowy agencies in its trafficking. Lombard didn't quite fit with that narrative, which makes him kind of jarring, even on an unconscious level.

Well....... you made a very good revision of this whole thing. And yeah, Calderone, while appearing, has made more of an impact while NOT appearing. And even after his cannonical death in the show, his actions still had a huge impact in the storyline.

And about Lombard. I mean....... he is intresting, because of the actor, and, as you said, he doesn't fit very well in this context of the show. And that was the whole problem. He wasn't an "ideal" villain.

I mean, the saying "the actor makes the show" is even more true, when you look at Evan. Besides all the good lore it had in it, the plain performance of Evan is...... amazing. I think that is the reason why Evan is such a good episode.

About the endless nature of the "War on drugs" I can say that you are...... sort of right. Not totally. Why ? Because, while the drug barons presented in the show weren't let's say "big" antagonists as single entities, they were, oftentimes present.  It wasn't like our main characters just tried to distable this "war" by weakening its regenerating links only, they went for the "dead-ends" many times.

The show wasn't all about drugs either. We've got a lot of weapon smugglers, crooks, kidnapers, love intrests for the main characters, etc. So, Lombard's "mob-boss" style, while not being helpful, I don't find to be "Bad". At worst, a bit boring. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Adrian321
Forgot something

[wolfie1996]

On 5/9/2011 at 3:31 PM, LNGLK said:

After rewatching "Lombard" I've got a question: how far do handguns shoot?I mean, how far can a person shoot and not miss the target?

Depends how good you are. And how big the target is of course!  And how stationary ! Fairly easy with reasonable skill over 20-30 yards, I'd say. Can be up to 50 yards in competitions.

[Adrian321]

7 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said:

Depends how good you are. And how big the target is of course!  And how stationary ! Fairly easy with reasonable skill over 20-30 yards, I'd say. Can be up to 50 yards in competitions.

I'd add that it depends on the gun too. Not only on the shooting skill of the person behind the gun.

 unless your are this guy......... 

[wolfie1996]

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

I'd add that it depends on the gun too. Not only on the shooting skill of the person behind the gun

Obviously, and also the load. I used to do reloads sometimes to be able to personalise them. Also, will the person shooting  be standing in a fixed position, or a more unusual one, two handed or one handed, good hand or weak hand etc. That's not your average sights on that gun either

[Adrian321]

1 minute ago, wolfie1996 said:

Obviously, and also the load. I used to do reloads sometimes to be able to personalise them. Also, will the person shooting  be standing in a fixed position, or a more unusual one, two handed or one handed, good hand or weak hand etc. That's not your average sights on that gun either

I do understand that, that revolver has modified sights, but........ STILL...... 1000 yards is around 910 meters. It's not easy to shoot something that small at that range with rifles......... with a revolver, it's another level. 

[wolfie1996]

1 minute ago, Adrian321 said:

I do understand that, that revolver has modified sights, but........ STILL...... 1000 yards is around 910 meters. It's not easy to shoot something that small at that range with rifles......... with a revolver, it's another level. 

Fully agree, Adrian and God knows how he did it!

[Robbie C.]

He's probably done it a number of times now and knows where to aim without actually having to see the target (which is a big part of it). Known range and having a spotter is different than just winging it. Doesn't take anything away from his shot, though.

Effective range (usually defined as being able to hit a torso-sized target) is driven by some basic things: shooter skill, sights, barrel length, and the weight and velocity of the bullet. A little snubbie like Tubbs carries is good out to maybe thirty yards...more in theory but combat shooting is different than range work or even competitions.

[wolfie1996]

9 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

He's probably done it a number of times now and knows where to aim without actually having to see the target (which is a big part of it). Known range and having a spotter is different than just winging it. Doesn't take anything away from his shot, though.

Effective range (usually defined as being able to hit a torso-sized target) is driven by some basic things: shooter skill, sights, barrel length, and the weight and velocity of the bullet. A little snubbie like Tubbs carries is good out to maybe thirty yards...more in theory but combat shooting is different than range work or even competitions.

All good points but I was surprised that people could use the "knows where to aim without having to see the target " technique! I never thought of that. But I'm sure you're absolutely right.