Episode #107 "World Of Trouble"

[Bren10]

The undercover metaphor is certainly true too.  I think Tubbs has more to define himself though.  He is a man of color from NY (NY itself has very distinctive areas one of which I assume Tubbs was a part of though it's never exactly clear where or what economic class).  Tubbs had an older brother, also a cop, who it is assumed Rico got inspiration from.  He is also initially motivated by revenge for his brother's death when we meet him.  He's got a romantic past with Valerie from NY and he's vegetarian (lol).  Anyway, these things are a little more meaty than what Sonny has going on.  When we meet Sonny his life is in transition (like the cop show itself with the advent of MV).  Things are simply passing thru Sonnys life as he remains stationary (including Tubbs himself) and basically runs in circles chasing a phantom drug dealer that he wouldn't have gotten close to without Tubbs' intervention.  This would actually go on throughout the first season at least.  In fact, I observed that during the entire series (and this is a Mann-erism for sure) Sonny is constantly making attempts at normality in terms of relationships and either failing or being sabotaged somehow.  He simply isn't meant for a conventional life as long as he is a cop.  His only hope for that is the road that he (and Tubbs) ultimately takes which is disconnection from the force entirely.  Although I don't think a post-Vice Sonny Crockett would be a very happy man.  I give more of a chance of that to Tubbs because, once again, Sonny is more defined by what he actually does as opposed to where he's from or past experiences.  He is almost like an action figure that comes with a car, 2 boats, an alligator, a gun, and lots of cool outfits.  And he won't fit in Barbie's house.  Without those things he is out of place and there isn't much you can do with him.  I hope that doesn't sound too pessimistic.

[Robbie C.]

No, it doesn't sound too pessimistic. And the show constantly discarded or rewrote elements of his background (Vietnam, football, even his career with Metro Dade) with a carelessness they didn't use with Tubbs or Castillo. Crockett exists in a fifteen minute window, more or less. Even Caroline and Billy fade away after the first season. I'd actually contend that the 'grounded' Sonny was an artifact of Yerkovich's influence. Once that faded, so did Vietnam vet football star Sonny. In his place was the Sonny we use to peer into the drug underworld and the perils of dealing with it.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Robbie C.

[Matt5]

7 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

No, it doesn't sound too pessimistic. And the show constantly discarded or rewrote elements of his background (Vietnam, football, even his career with Metro Dade) with a carelessness they didn't use with Tubbs or Castillo. Crockett exists in a fifteen minute window, more or less. Even Caroline and Billy fade away after the first season. I'd actually contend that the 'grounded' Sonny was an artifact of Yerkovich's influence. Once that faded, so did Vietnam vet football star Sonny. In his place was the Sonny we use to peer into the drug underworld and the perils of dealing with it.

Good points Robbie.C

[Jack Gretsky]

Lombard? Sleek, bright views of Miami? Crockett & Tubbs cracking wise? Stan in a joking mood? Gina without her Season 5 bangs? This sure has the feel of a circa 1985 episode!

I love the look (the combination of colors and shadows) during the attack on Lombard's house with the wood bridges and swimming pool.

At first I thought too bad Lombard wasn't able to take out the lawyer when he got shot by security! But then it turns out to be part of a plan to make it look like Al is dead.

Librizzi is so smarmy that it was a delight to see his boat get destroyed by Sonny. Maybe this was Sonny's "pay it forward" avenging of the Daytona's demise at the start of season three? 

Great that we get to see Dennis Farina one last time in Vice.  He brings such warmth to his criminal character and perhaps receives a sort of redemption at the end? 

[ViceFanMan]

I chose to re-review this one at the end...as it’s superb! This is sadly one of 3 episodes that was aired after the so-called finale “Freefall”...so, many fans didn’t realize it actually was aired by NBC, therefore it was mistaken to be a “lost” (or unaired) episode. They totally should have revamped this & aired it as the finale!

The whole Havoc ray-gun thing was cheesy and way too sci-fi for MV! I laughed my butt off when the cop car was fried with the ray-gun--you could tell the camera was sped up as the cop's hands were going up and down on the steering wheel in an impossible million miles an hour to try and get the car to work. I think even Knight Rider would have found this scene somewhat humorous.  

However, other than that, I found this episode amazing, interesting, and heart-felt! This one's sort of a love-hate thing with me. I loved Lombard showing back up and trying to make things right with his family...but I hated it that he had to die at the end.  I don’t really care for sad or depressing things, and I wish they'd of had him escape again and leave his character once again open-ended. That way there would have always been the chance he would show back up once more (sadly, with the real-life death of Dennis Farina a few years ago, that will now never be an option).  

I loved the plot, acting, action, colors, fashion, cars, etc...! The scenes with Lombard and his son were in-depth and heart-felt...and I loved the scenes between Sonny and Al. They always had sort of a respect for each other--as both always stayed true to their word. Al wanting to have a relationship with his grandson and daughter-in-law was also touching.

Ned Eisenberg was interesting as Frederico Librizzi (he also played Librizzi in First Season's Lombard), and I loved how Lombard engineered things to where he'd be taken out by Sonny or Rico at the end of this episode. But, despite his several guest appearances on MV...Eisenberg will always be Charlie Glide to me.  He played Charlie Glide in Season 2's Yankee Dollar. I believe that Ned Eisenberg also guest-starred on an episode of Dennis Farina's (Lombard) show (also created by Michael Mann) Crime Story.The colors and fashion were once again superb! Despite the numerous poor plots, in my opinion, most of Season 5 had even better pastels and original MV colors than Season 4!

The end was very deep and tragic...awesome acting, but still sad. Again I really wished Lombard could have lived. But, I guess they wanted to finally tie-up the loose ends with his character too...as they had ended the Calderone saga a season or so back and the show was supposedly winding down by this point (although I still say they could have gone on for another season or two if NBC had allowed it and DJ & EJO had been willing).

Overall, this was also a rare Season 5 gem...and the last true awesome episode. I really like this episode and I still say if they got rid of the HAVOC goofiness, and revamped the plot even more...this could & should have been used as the 2hr ‘grand’ finale! I originally gave this a 7...but that was WAY too low! If I could change it, I’d now give this a 9 (only reason not a 10 is because of HAVOC)!  

Edited September 17, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Jack Gretsky]

On 9/13/2020 at 9:18 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

Lombard? Sleek, bright views of Miami? Crockett & Tubbs cracking wise? Stan in a joking mood? Gina without her Season 5 bangs? This sure has the feel of a circa 1985 episode!

I love the look (the combination of colors and shadows) during the attack on Lombard's house with the wood bridges and swimming pool.

At first I thought too bad Lombard wasn't able to take out the lawyer when he got shot by security! But then it turns out to be part of a plan to make it look like Al is dead.

Librizzi is so smarmy that it was a delight to see his boat get destroyed by Sonny. Maybe this was Sonny's "pay it forward" avenging of the Daytona's demise at the start of season three? 

Great that we get to see Dennis Farina one last time in Vice.  He brings such warmth to his criminal character and perhaps receives a sort of redemption at the end? 

This indeed has an earlier-in-the-run vibe.  Even the colors seem shinier and richer.  And, yes, Eisenberg is great as the cocky crook with his dumbass beard.  And, oof, Lombard sure is tone-deaf when it comes to walking up to children in secluded/guarded areas, grandson or not.  

[gazzaa2]

Liked this one, Lombard was such a good character, should have used him more.

Struggled to buy the son's personality transplant though.  In his other appearance on the show he was straight laced and wanted nothing to do with his father's ways, now we're supposed to buy he "idolised his father" and wanted to be just like him.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, gazzaa2 said:

Liked this one, Lombard was such a good character, should have used him more.

Struggled to buy the son's personality transplant though.  In his other appearance on the show he was straight laced and wanted nothing to do with his father's ways, now we're supposed to buy he "idolised his father" and wanted to be just like him.

This was one of the best episodes of the season, in my opinion...sad it was one of the 3 aired after “Freefall”, so many at the time didn’t even realize it aired. It could have been tweaked, elongated out, and it should have been used as the 2hr finale instead. 

But, yeah...two different actors played Sal Lombard, just as two different women played Castillo’s ex-wife, and two different boys played Crockett’s son Billy. More than likely, for whatever reasons the actors who first played these characters were not available to be in later or future episodes & so producers had to find other actors to play the parts. 

[fakespyder]

I'm guessing the original Sal Lombard actor saw the script and the space ray gun from Buck Rogers and said "Hell No!"

Dennis Farina saves the episode with his charisma, but I find the stolen HAVOC plot awful.

[ViceFanMan]

31 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

I'm guessing the original Sal Lombard actor saw the script and the space ray gun from Buck Rogers and said "Hell No!"

Dennis Farina saves the episode with his charisma, but I find the stolen HAVOC plot awful.

I doubt the original Sal knew about the ray gun ...I’m guessing he probably wasn’t available to reprise the role in this episode. But, yes...the HAVOC aspect was pretty ridiculous and even Knight Rider producers & writers probably would have laughed. 

However, HAVOC was only a background plot-piece after the first few minutes (thank goodness). The majority of the episode & the plot line revolved around the Lombards. Leaving out the space-gun thing, the main plot & Dennis Farina “make” this episode...and make it one of the best of Season 5! 

In my opinion this episode should have been tweaked & re-worked...removing the ray gun piece altogether, elongating the Lombard & mob/vice aspects out, and ultimately used as the 2hr series finale instead! 

[Matt5]

4 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I doubt the original Sal knew about the ray gun ...I’m guessing he probably wasn’t available to reprise the role in this episode. But, yes...the HAVOC aspect was pretty ridiculous and even Knight Rider producers & writers probably would have laughed. 

However, HAVOC was only a background plot-piece after the first few minutes (thank goodness). The majority of the episode & the plot line revolved around the Lombards. Leaving out the space-gun thing, the main plot & Dennis Farina “make” this episode...and make it one of the best of Season 5! 

In my opinion this episode should have been tweaked & re-worked...removing the ray gun piece altogether, elongating the Lombard & mob/vice aspects out, and ultimately used as the 2hr series finale instead! 

Farina stole the show in this 1989 episode like he did in “Lombard” in March 1985. But yes the Havoc thing was weird and out of place a little in the show — still a great episode. 10|10.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Matt5

[RedDragon86]

I know it was great to see Dennis for another time but to me he died at the end of season 1, obviously we didn't see it but he got taken out by those 2 hitters.

Joel Surnow, David Assael and John Nicolella wouldn't just put that in there at they end for the sake of it.

I did like Al but he deserved to die for happened to Barbara, this is what Joel was thinking imo.

"I haven't forgotten about what you did to Barbara Carrow pal" the writer didn't either.

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I know it was great to see Dennis for another time but to me he died at the end of season 1, obviously we didn't see it but he got taken out by those 2 hitters.

Joel Surnow, David Assael and John Nicolella wouldn't just put that in there at they end for the sake of it.

I did like Al but he deserved to die for happened to Barbara, this is what Joel was thinking imo.

"I haven't forgotten about what you did to Barbara Carrow pal" the writer didn't either.

 

We didn’t get to see the two hitters take out Al in 1st season—because they actually ultimately didn’t. They left that ending sort of “open”, in case they wanted to bring the character of Lombard back...which they ultimately did.

Al Lombard wasn’t always a nice guy, or some upstanding man. He was a gangster & tied in with the mob. But, he wasn’t psychotic, sociopathic (like Hackman or Mosca), or stupid.

It was discovered that Al did not have Barbara Carrow killed. Sonny thought he did, and understandably so, but ultimately Lombard didn’t even know about, let-alone order/sanction, Barbara’s death. Other punks in the organization did it on their own...and Lombard admitted that had caused a lot of problems & “heat” for the mob in that area & he regretted that had happened. 

Al wasn’t all bad, and had a human side...even a caring one. Despite the fact that they were on opposite sides of the proverbial fence, Lombard respected Crockett and Tubbs. And later I think they both learned to respect Al in their own way. 

I’ve said this before, but ironically Crockett & Lombard had lots of things in common...they could actually relate to each other. Their careers were on opposite sides of the law, but both careers were very destructive towards their families. Both loved their families & tried to protect them from the dangers or fall-back from their careers...but, ultimately neither were able to do that. They both suffered a lot of heartache (in different ways) because of that...yet neither one were willing to try & get out of their careers. They both were too hooked on & caught up in the action.

If the show had continued for another season or two, I don’t think they would’ve killed Lombard off in “WOT”...he’d of shown back up again. But, since they knew the show was not coming back by this point, I think they decided to go ahead and do one last Lombard episode...and it was awesome! A superb throwback to 1st/2nd seasons...when the show was on top of its game.

I still wish they would have taken this episode, got rid of the whole havoc thing, tweaked & elongated out the plot with the Lombards, and used this as the series finale! 

[Matt5]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

We didn’t get to see the two hitters take out Al in 1st season—because they actually ultimately didn’t. They left that ending sort of “open”, in case they wanted to bring the character of Lombard back...which they ultimately did.

Al Lombard wasn’t always a nice guy, or some upstanding man. He was a gangster & tied in with the mob. But, he wasn’t psychotic, sociopathic (like Hackman or Mosca), or stupid.

It was discovered that Al did not have Barbara Carrow killed. Sonny thought he did, and understandably so, but ultimately Lombard didn’t even know about, let-alone order/sanction, Barbara’s death. Other punks in the organization did it on their own...and Lombard admitted that had caused a lot of problems & “heat” for the mob in that area & he regretted that had happened. 

Al wasn’t all bad, and had a human side...even a caring one. Despite the fact that they were on opposite sides of the proverbial fence, Lombard respected Crockett and Tubbs. And later I think they both learned to respect Al in their own way. 

I’ve said this before, but ironically Crockett & Lombard had lots of things in common...they could actually relate to each other. Their careers were on opposite sides of the law, but both careers were very destructive towards their families. Both loved their families & tried to protect them from the dangers or fall-back from their careers...but, ultimately neither were able to do that. They both suffered a lot of heartache (in different ways) because of that...yet neither one were willing to try & get out of their careers. They both were too hooked on & caught up in the action.

If the show had continued for another season or two, I don’t think they would’ve killed Lombard off in “WOT”...he’d of shown back up again. But, since they knew the show was not coming back by this point, I think they decided to go ahead and do one last Lombard episode...and it was awesome! A superb throwback to 1st/2nd seasons...when the show was on top of its game.

I still wish they would have taken this episode, got rid of the whole havoc thing, tweaked & elongated out the plot with the Lombards, and used this as the series finale! 

Great words @ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:19 AM, ViceFanMan said:

We didn’t get to see the two hitters take out Al in 1st season—because they actually ultimately didn’t. They left that ending sort of “open”, in case they wanted to bring the character of Lombard back...which they ultimately did.

Al Lombard wasn’t always a nice guy, or some upstanding man. He was a gangster & tied in with the mob. But, he wasn’t psychotic, sociopathic (like Hackman or Mosca), or stupid.

It was discovered that Al did not have Barbara Carrow killed. Sonny thought he did, and understandably so, but ultimately Lombard didn’t even know about, let-alone order/sanction, Barbara’s death. Other punks in the organization did it on their own...and Lombard admitted that had caused a lot of problems & “heat” for the mob in that area & he regretted that had happened. 

Al wasn’t all bad, and had a human side...even a caring one. Despite the fact that they were on opposite sides of the proverbial fence, Lombard respected Crockett and Tubbs. And later I think they both learned to respect Al in their own way. 

I’ve said this before, but ironically Crockett & Lombard had lots of things in common...they could actually relate to each other. Their careers were on opposite sides of the law, but both careers were very destructive towards their families. Both loved their families & tried to protect them from the dangers or fall-back from their careers...but, ultimately neither were able to do that. They both suffered a lot of heartache (in different ways) because of that...yet neither one were willing to try & get out of their careers. They both were too hooked on & caught up in the action.

If the show had continued for another season or two, I don’t think they would’ve killed Lombard off in “WOT”...he’d of shown back up again. But, since they knew the show was not coming back by this point, I think they decided to go ahead and do one last Lombard episode...and it was awesome! A superb throwback to 1st/2nd seasons...when the show was on top of its game.

I still wish they would have taken this episode, got rid of the whole havoc thing, tweaked & elongated out the plot with the Lombards, and used this as the series finale! 

Al died at the end of "Lombard" 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

16 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

They planned to bring him back? in a poxy episode VFM? eveyone left originally at this moment, there is 0 remembracnce of Lombard.

That was his own very BS.

It was clearty said to him in "One Eyed Jack"

Sorry but I find it a bit comical we are tying up things at the back end of such a mess.

 

Lombard was a popular enough & important enough character that they definitely could have brought back...which they ultimately did (and once Dennis Farina was available again). There was never 0 remembrance of Al...he just got put on the back-burner for a while & he had to hide out for a while after he faked his death, when Labrizzi’s hit-men failed (at the end of “Lombard”). 

In “One Eyed Jack” it appeared that & we as viewers were given the impression that, Lombard had ordered Barbara Carrow’s death—and understandably Crockett assumed he had. But, we find out later, at the end of the season in “Lombard” (not in “World of Trouble”), that he actually had not.

Sadly, “WOT” had to be aired at the backend of a mess that Seasons 4&5 had become. But, it was one of the couple diamonds in a rock pile. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

In “One Eyed Jack” it appeared that & we as viewers were given the impression that, Lombard had ordered Barbara Carrow’s death—and understandably Crockett assumed he had. But, we find out later, at the end of the season in “Lombard” (not in “World of Trouble”), that he actually had not.

Sadly, “WOT” had to be aired at the backend of a mess that Seasons 4&5 had become. But, it was one of the couple diamonds in a rock pile. 

 

6 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

In “One Eyed Jack” it appeared that & we as viewers were given the impression that, Lombard had ordered Barbara Carrow’s death—and understandably Crockett assumed he had. But, we find out later, at the end of the season in “Lombard” (not in “World of Trouble”), that he actually had not.

Sadly, “WOT” had to be aired at the backend of a mess that Seasons 4&5 had become. But, it was one of the couple diamonds in a rock pile. 

I watched “One Eyed Jack” tonight and it was clear that he knew about the hit.

At the end the day the Michael Mann Al Lombard has nothing to do with what came later.

Edited September 24, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

18 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

 

I watched “One Eyed Jack” tonight and it was clear that he knew about the hit.

At the end the day the Michael Mann Al Lombard has nothing to do with what came later.

I love “OEJ” and have watched it many times. It gives the impression that Lombard ordered & knew about the hit on Barbara Carrow. But, ultimately it was Vincent DeMarco who had Barbara killed—on his own.

Whether it was originally planned for this episode at that time or not, Lombard even has a somewhat puzzled/confused look on his face when Demarco admits to having Barbara killed...almost as if that surprised him & that on top of him thinking DeMarco tried to steal $2000 from him, he tells Vincent they’re gonna have a private conversation below on the yacht.

This next part is my own theory...but I visualize Lombard getting ready to explode at DeMarco for killing a lady for some small amount (to them) without his knowledge or permission. He probably would have had DeMarco taken out at some point, if Barbara’s husband hadn’t done it for him.

We find out in 1st season (in “Lombard”) that Al had actually not ordered or known about the hit on Barbara. This is still in the superb beginning, and definitely still part of Michael Mann’s ‘Al Lombard’ & vision for the show. 

Perhaps originally at the time of this episode, it was not the intent to make Lombard more likeable...but Dennis Farina was so superb that they had to bring him back—and add more info to his character & the Barbara Carrow situation from this episode. 

Again, we were given the “impression” that he was involved with Barbara Carrow’s death, but we find out at the end of the season he himself personally was not. It was actually DeMarco that had made the decision on his own.

[fakespyder]

Vincent worked for Al. Al knew Barbara was killed. Al has as much culpability in her death as Vincent. Also, he did not care that she'd been killed:

"Crockett that was not my idea. It was bad for business, caused a lot of heat" 

The rationalization of a gangster with little empathy outside of those he loves and cares for.

I like Al but it is worth remembering he's first and foremost a gangster. Sure, a gangster with a code and principals, but a criminal murderer none the less. 

The plot could've been excellent: An aging crimelord come home to see his family, unexpectedly drawing them into danger as Librizzi discovers he's back and sends a hit team which kills his non-gangster son. It would have been so much more powerful had his son not been a gangster too.

There are plenty of good scenes in this episode but overall it is another lost opportunity.

The Havoc stuff was totally unnecessary.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, fakespyder said:

Vincent worked for Al. Al knew Barbara was killed. Al has as much culpability in her death as Vincent. Also, he did not care that she'd been killed:

"Crockett that was not my idea. It was bad for business, caused a lot of heat" 

The rationalization of a gangster with little empathy outside of those he loves and cares for.

I like Al but it is worth remembering he's first and foremost a gangster. Sure, a gangster with a code and principals, but a criminal murderer none the less. 

The plot could've been excellent: An aging crimelord come home to see his family, unexpectedly drawing them into danger as Librizzi discovers he's back and sends a hit team which kills his non-gangster son. It would have been so much more powerful had his son not been a gangster too.

There are plenty of good scenes in this episode but overall it is another lost opportunity.

The Havoc stuff was totally unnecessary.

Agreed, the havoc stuff in “World of Trouble” was silly & unnecessary. Not sure what the point of it was?

As for Al & Barbara Carrow...yes, DeMarco worked for Lombard, but he also had some leeway to carry out some operations. However, carrying out a hit was probably not one. But, he decided to do it anyway. 

In “Lombard” we find out Al didn’t order or know of the hit until it was already done. True, Lombard was a gangster & not some law-abiding citizen. But, he wasn’t blood thirsty or psychotic. He didn’t go around killing women over relatively small amounts owed by her husband. That was DeMarco’s own stupidity.

Edited September 24, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

11 hours ago, fakespyder said:

Vincent worked for Al. Al knew Barbara was killed. Al has as much culpability in her death as Vincent. Also, he did not care that she'd been killed:

"Crockett that was not my idea. It was bad for business, caused a lot of heat" 

The rationalization of a gangster with little empathy outside of those he loves and cares for.

I like Al but it is worth remembering he's first and foremost a gangster. Sure, a gangster with a code and principals, but a criminal murderer none the less. 

The plot could've been excellent: An aging crimelord come home to see his family, unexpectedly drawing them into danger as Librizzi discovers he's back and sends a hit team which kills his non-gangster son. It would have been so much more powerful had his son not been a gangster too.

There are plenty of good scenes in this episode but overall it is another lost opportunity.

The Havoc stuff was totally unnecessary.

You are absolutely right, when Vincent mentions Barbara to Al on the boat he brushes it off like it was nothing, like we have more important things to worry about it.

Like where is my 2k?

Just my view but he got killed at the end of "Lombard" I trust the implication of what the show was doing in it's prime, rather than spur of the moment episode at the back end about some high tech laser gun.

Further up the road or in a secluded area his Mercedes got sprayed with 30+ bullets. At the very least he was a marked man, the hit was out on him. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by RedDragon86

[Miami Beau]

I’ve been reading through the reply’s and I can see good points made on both sides. For me ultimately, Lombard was no angel but not on the level of someone like Paul Delgado from “Honor Among Thieves?”. 

The question is, even though Lombard told Crockett he had nothing to do with Barbra’s death, was he actually telling Sonny the truth? Or was Lombard playing Sonny like he did with insinuating he was going to give evidence at the trial, only to go silent on the stand? It’s open ended I guess and can go either way. The guy was a gangster and a liar so it wouldn’t be implausible to think Lombard was just telling Sonny what he wanted to hear. 

Upon rewatching this episode, I now find myself questioning why it took Labrizzi so long to pay off the judge. Clearly his Jamaican hitmen couldn’t get the job done so why wait until 89 to bring Lombard back to Miami? I get in reality Dennis Farina was unavailable to return to the show any earlier but just in terms of storyline, what was the hold up for Labrizzi? 
 
Labrizzi was supposed to take over the drug empire beginning in Season 2 with Lombard out of the way. How the hell did Eddie “The Wire” Constantine get control of everything. Major missing storyline pieces that weren’t showcased. I agree, this really could of been a two hour (90 minute) episode. Real shame. 

[Robbie C.]

8 minutes ago, Miami Beau said:

I’ve been reading through the reply’s and I can see good points made on both sides. For me ultimately, Lombard was no angel but not on the level of someone like Paul Delgado from “Honor Among Thieves?”. 

The question is, even though Lombard told Crockett he had nothing to do with Barbra’s death, was he actually telling Sonny the truth? Or was Lombard playing Sonny like he did with insinuating he was going to give evidence at the trial, only to go silent on the stand? It’s open ended I guess and can go either way. The guy was a gangster and a liar so it wouldn’t be implausible to think Lombard was just telling Sonny what he wanted to hear. 

Upon rewatching this episode, I now find myself questioning why it took Labrizzi so long to pay off the judge. Clearly his Jamaican hitmen couldn’t get the job done so why wait until 89 to bring Lombard back to Miami? I get in reality Dennis Farina was unavailable to return to the show any earlier but just in terms of storyline, what was the hold up for Labrizzi? 
 
Labrizzi was supposed to take over the drug empire beginning in Season 2 with Lombard out of the way. How the hell did Eddie “The Wire” Constantine get control of everything. Major missing storyline pieces that weren’t showcased. I agree, this really could of been a two hour (90 minute) episode. Real shame. 

Storyline? We don't need no stinkin' storyline...

Vice is so riddled with this kind of stuff there's not much you can do about it. Honestly, I think Lombard was supposed to be a throwback to the old, personable Mob guy. He was held up in direct contrast to people like Calderone, at least if you look at when the character was first introduced. That said, there's no way you can convince me an old-school Mob guy DIDN'T know Barbara had been whacked. If you stick with that older trope, nothing happened without the boss' ok. Now did he say "Go out and kill her"? No. More likely it was something like "Take care of her for me" or "Deal with the problem." His guys would know what that meant. The old Mob guys didn't have to wave stainless steel Magnums around and shout for someone's head on a platter. The only reason he might have decided it was bad for business is it got Sonny involved and motivated the husband to take action on his own. Otherwise, it would have just been another message about what happens to people who don't pay their debts.

[ViceFanMan]

39 minutes ago, Miami Beau said:

I’ve been reading through the reply’s and I can see good points made on both sides. For me ultimately, Lombard was no angel but not on the level of someone like Paul Delgado from “Honor Among Thieves?”. 

The question is, even though Lombard told Crockett he had nothing to do with Barbra’s death, was he actually telling Sonny the truth? Or was Lombard playing Sonny like he did with insinuating he was going to give evidence at the trial, only to go silent on the stand? It’s open ended I guess and can go either way. The guy was a gangster and a liar so it wouldn’t be implausible to think Lombard was just telling Sonny what he wanted to hear. 

Upon rewatching this episode, I now find myself questioning why it took Labrizzi so long to pay off the judge. Clearly his Jamaican hitmen couldn’t get the job done so why wait until 89 to bring Lombard back to Miami? I get in reality Dennis Farina was unavailable to return to the show any earlier but just in terms of storyline, what was the hold up for Labrizzi? 
 
Labrizzi was supposed to take over the drug empire beginning in Season 2 with Lombard out of the way. How the hell did Eddie “The Wire” Constantine get control of everything. Major missing storyline pieces that weren’t showcased. I agree, this really could of been a two hour (90 minute) episode. Real shame. 

It’s true that Lombard could have been lying to Crockett about having nothing to do with Barbara Carrow’s death...he was no angel for sure.  But, if that had been the case I think the writers would have worked that aspect into the episode & we as viewers would have known that—and eventually Crockett would have too.

Instead they chose to make Lombard not as bad as we originally were led to think. So when he tells Crockett he actually didn’t have anything to do with the hit, he’s telling the truth. He wasn’t going to go kill a woman because her husband owed some money. He’d be more likely to take out Barbara’s husband as he’s the one that owed the money...but Lombard didn’t even do that. It was DeMarco’s own stupidity & decision to have Barbara killed...by some guy named Rudy. Lombard didn’t even know that, as was shown at the end of “One Eyed Jack”.

As for why it took Labrizzi so long to try and take over...good question? In reality I think you’re right. Dennis Farina had originally left the recurring role of Lombard to go star in Mann’s other show Crime Story. But, sadly it only lasted 2 seasons. So, for a couple years or so the whole Lombard thing was abandoned. But, towards the end of MV I think they decided to bring him back one more time.

Pretending MV-world was real...Lombard had to fake his death, as obviously he was not killed by Labrizzi’s hitmen back in the episode “Lombard”. They kind of left that ending sort of “open”, anyway. So, during that time Lombard may have been secretly still running things through other people that prevented Labrizzi from immediately taking over.

Sometimes character or recurring storyline consistency weren’t MV’s strong points.  With continual changes in writers & producers, things got a little disjointed. So, sometimes it did seem like there were holes in some storylines. But, bringing back Lombard the way they did was awesome and yes...”World of Trouble” should have been used as the 2hr finale instead! 

Edited September 24, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[fakespyder]

I will grant you that Lombard did show some regret: "I've done a lot of bad things Crockett. A lot of bad things"

He was a complicated character. Farina played him beautifully.