Episode #95 "Borrasca"

[RedDragon86]

On 7/17/2013 at 7:17 AM, ViceFanMan said:

Another awesome Castillo centered episode...this one and "Heart of Night" are probably his best, and in my opinion are better than "Bushido" or "Golden Triangle." This one was another emotional one for Castillo, and EJO did a superb job--and the scenes of rivalry between him and Reece always kept you on edge because you knew somewhere along the line something was gonna' happen. But, the acting was awesome and very intense! :glossy:I loved the opening song, Dogs of War by Pink Floyd! Superb song that totally helped create the mood for the scene, and the all-out gun war that followed! The other notable song was I want Your Hands On Me by Sinead O'Connor--of course that would be her song. ;)Speaking of Sinead's song, it was playing during the wild club scene...loved the multi-colored Medusa-looking dancers--the lighting and colors used were phenomenal! It was freaky, and not my "scene"...but it's interesting to watch on TV. I loved the colors used during this episode and especially the pastel buildings at the beginning! The action throughout this one was sizzling, and there was constant threat of gunfire or killings all the time! I love the old Lincoln at the beginning exploding. Juan Fernandez, as Borrasca, was always the perfect bad guy...but I mainly remember him as one of the bad guys in "Crocodile Dundee II" around the same time. But, Brion James was perfect for the role of Edward Reece! He always played the perfect sleezy, scuzzy, freaky-looking, evil bad guy you loved to hate! He was "sick" and creepy and you only wish he could have been taken out by Castillo too. :pI know this was one where Don Johnson was absent...but I did think the scene where Tubbs "has" to explain why was a little much. Just say Crockett was testifying in another case and wasn't available...you don't have to go on about how he really wished Sonny was there, because he could really help, and on and on. It was a little over-the-top. Plus...poor Stan just could not fill that role of a serious drug dealer/buyer. He still appeared goofy in his slicked back hair, oversized suits, while still "popping" out his corny one-liners. However, I think this is the first episode we start to realize that Switek has a gambling problem.However, the scene where Switek and Tubbs discover Castillo's friend Art chopped to pieces with machetes was nasty...but pretty effective! I did find the part where Stan gets sick right after seeing that realistic, and understandable. But, poor Gina once again has horrible clothes and hairdos--I mean really?? She's the hottest one there but her fashion makes no sense! :eek:Maybe they were also in previous episodes...but this is the first one I remember noticing scenes "freezing" right before going into commercials. It was different and kind of cool. The ending was superb--love how Castillo finally showed he's human after all! He took matters into his own hands...yet still did the right thing. There were a few aspects that were goofy, or not quite there, for me (as mentioned above)...but overall I enjoyed this one. Good Castillo episode, awesome action and colors...I gave it an 8!

My reaction reading the bit in bold

Do you still think this?

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

My reaction reading the bit in bold

Do you still think this?

All the episodes mentioned are good, but perhaps putting that sentence in bold was a little too bold. 

However, believe it or not out of all the Castillo-centered ones I think I still like this one best. Golden Triangle was really good too, but I’ll be honest and say for whatever reasons I’m not a huge Bushido fan. 

[RedDragon86]

4 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

All the episodes mentioned are good, but perhaps putting that sentence in bold was a little too bold. 

However, believe it or not out of all the Castillo-centered ones I think I still like this one best. Golden Triangle was really good too, but I’ll be honest and say for whatever reasons I’m not a huge Bushido fan. 

I mean Borrassa or Heart of Night are better than the whole Dale Menton, Lao Li, Golden Triangle situation and on top of that is original wife May Ying?

The early Castillo background episodes imo were much more authentic, the likes of Gretsky, Lao li and Menton felt real. What came after seemed made up and forced, I don't know it just felt like the likes of Reese, Grey and to a certain extent Van Trahn never really existed in his life. 

[ViceFanMan]

9 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I mean Borrassa or Heart of Night are better than the whole Dale Menton, Lao Li, Golden Triangle situation and on top of that is original wife May Ying?

The early Castillo background episodes imo were much more authentic, the likes of Gretsky, Lao li and Menton felt real. What came after seemed made up and forced, I don't know it just felt like the likes of Reese, Grey and to a certain extent Van Trahn never really existed in his life. 

Well, they supposedly all existed...but I don’t know, I like Golden Triangle well enough, but I just don’t jump up&down over Bushido. 

[Robbie C.]

Bushido had some pacing issues, but I felt like it and The Savage hit Castillo's background very well. That and God's Work, honestly. Borrasca was ok, but it didn't have the solid feel of the others.

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, Robbie C. said:

Bushido had some pacing issues, but I felt like it and The Savage hit Castillo's background very well. That and God's Work, honestly. Borrasca was ok, but it didn't have the solid feel of the others.

The Savage and God’s Work were very good, too!  

[RedDragon86]

20 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Well, they supposedly all existed...but I don’t know, I like Golden Triangle well enough, but I just don’t jump up&down over Bushido. 

The ex-producers and writers (Mann) created Castillo in 1&2, then they all left. After that with Castillo past its all contrived.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

The ex-producers and writers (Mann) created Castillo in 1&2, then they all left. After that its all contrived.

It was all bollocks after the second season.

In all honesty, when original writers and Mann left after 2, everyone/thing is pretty much contrived.  They abandoned story & character-lines and “popped” in different ones, etc... But, the Castillo episodes mentioned above are still very good!   Out of all of them, I’m just not a big Bushido fan. 

[Tom]

I agree that Borrasca was one of the best episodes with Castillo (and in general, even as it is the only non-Crockett-show episode), especially the directing at the end where the red sniper mark got magnified, freezes and then crossfades into Castillo´s silhouette sitting at home giving his "encoded" admission to Tubbs.

[RedDragon86]

11 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

In all honesty, when original writers and Mann left after 2, everyone/thing is pretty much contrived.  They abandoned story & character-lines and “popped” in different ones, etc... But, the Castillo episodes mentioned above are still very good!   Out of all of them, I’m just not a big Bushido fan. 

They just seemed to exploit Castillo's past after 2 I think, I mean even though I love "The Savage" they made out that he was some sort of cop in Vietnam but wasn't he working with Gretsky in "Golden Triangle" region?

And in "Rising Sun of Death" just because he has worked in South-east Asia he automatically can speak Japanese and knows all about the Jakuza. By season 6 if there was one he would have no doubt moved onto The Triads, Flying Dragons, Wah Ching or The Korean mafia "Hey Marty I didn't know you could speak Korean"

 

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

They just seemed to exploit Castillo's past after 2 I think, I mean even though I love "The Savage" they made out that he was some sort of cop in Vietnam but wasn't he working with Gretsky in "Golden Triangle" region?

And in "Rising Sun of Death" just because he has worked in South-east Asia he automatically can speak Japanese and knows all about the Jakuza. By season 6 if there was one he would have no doubt moved onto The Triads, Flying Dragons, Wah Ching or The Korean mafia "Hey Marty I didn't know you could speak Korean"

 

Lol...true, it probably got a little over-the-top.  But, I think the whole point of Castillo was to make him “mysterious” to an extent...to make him somewhat unknown, and to have had an almost “secret agent/secret ops” type past that we only get glimpses of as certain pieces are revealed to us in the episodes. Pretending Castillo-world was real, there’s probably a ton we never knew about and/or got to see.

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

They just seemed to exploit Castillo's past after 2 I think, I mean even though I love "The Savage" they made out that he was some sort of cop in Vietnam but wasn't he working with Gretsky in "Golden Triangle" region?

And in "Rising Sun of Death" just because he has worked in South-east Asia he automatically can speak Japanese and knows all about the Jakuza. By season 6 if there was one he would have no doubt moved onto The Triads, Flying Dragons, Wah Ching or The Korean mafia "Hey Marty I didn't know you could speak Korean"

 

They never make it clear when he was working with Gretzky, actually. My assumption based on the flow of the war was that it happened later (or that his assignment there might have been interrupted for the Saigon posting). The Savage has Castillo working as an advisor (essentially) in Saigon, but I don't recall the episode being specific about the date (the draft script was, but it had it set too late for the level of American involvement we see, so I think someone just 'forgot' that date).

[sdiegolo78]

On 6/19/2014 at 11:31 PM, Tom said:

The final scene and Castillo's last words ("I always tried to do what is right. That's the code I live by") would not make sense otherwise. To make it even more obvious, Tubbs starts the final conversation with something like "Reese already had Borrasca in the chopper when the shot was fired. But I am sure you know that already". Director Vern Gillum was also so nice to use a perfect cross fade from the red spot on Borrasca's body with the noise of the shot to Castillo's body in his living room. That' s something you won't find described in any script, that's the director's way to underline the punchline the screenwriters had up on their sleeves.I am always surprised that so many viewers have not realized all that. It makes perfect sense. Castillo could not win against against Reese in an open fight. The nightly OCB scene where Reese threathened Castillo made this clear. So Castillo had to do what he had to do. His codex always was that he had to protect innocent people at all cost. He freaked out on Dale Menton in Golden Triangle. In Evan he even risked a fight with the ATF ("these Mac 10s will not be sold in Miami"). Borrasca as a provider of hundreds of kilos of dope was a menace to society that he had to take out as nobody else would have done it. Even for the price to commit murder.

When you say 'Castillo could not win against against Reese in an open fight' do you mean a on a one to one fist/gun fight? Or Castillo as in OCB vs Reese as CIA? As with Castillo killing Borrasca, I'd say it's similar to Crockett killing Hackman. Sonny couldn't get justice since Hackman fled Miami to Caicos Islands where Metro Dade have no jurisdiction. He took matter in his hands and Castillo did the same in Borrasca. By the same 'code'.

[Tom]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb sdiegolo78:

When you say 'Castillo could not win against against Reese in an open fight' do you mean a on a one to one fist/gun fight? Or Castillo as in OCB vs Reese as CIA? As with Castillo killing Borrasca, I'd say it's similar to Crockett killing Hackman. Sonny couldn't get justice since Hackman fled Miami to Caicos Islands where Metro Dade have no jurisdiction. He took matter in his hands and Castillo did the same in Borrasca. By the same 'code'.

I meant OCB vs. CIA of course. As we saw in Golden Triangle and Heart of night, Castillo was very good in martial arts, probably better than Reese.

[sdiegolo78]

4 minutes ago, Tom said:

I meant OCB vs. CIA of course. As we saw in Golden Triangle and Heart of night, Castillo was very good in martial arts, probably better than Reese.

I would have liked him to kick Reese ass when the latter called at his house. But Reese was vile and had his goons with him (whose asses, by the way, got whooped by Tubbs and Switek) and god knows they could have had Castillo on target from the outside in case he tried to take on Reese. Castillo was great shot with the gun too and very stealthy.

[wolfie1996]

Two comments on this one: did they HAVE to have that bird killed at the beginning? You can have a good episode without the animal cruelty aspect, it's quite gratuitous, and not the first time they've done it..also..no Sonny. Nothing makes up for his absence.

[Dadrian]

@wolfie1996are you a vegetarian?  

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, wolfie1996 said:

Two comments on this one: did they HAVE to have that bird killed at the beginning? You can have a good episode without the animal cruelty aspect, it's quite gratuitous, and not the first time they've done it..also..no Sonny. Nothing makes up for his absence.

I would like to think most of us don’t like, support, or engage in animal cruelty...but sadly it happens, and MV was trying to show what was going on in a realistic way. 

[wolfie1996]

5 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I would like to think most of us don’t like, support, or engage in animal cruelty...but sadly it happens, and MV was trying to show what was going on in a realistic way. 

As I said, unnecessary and gratuitous. They aren't animal welfare societies, they're producing entertainment shows. And if you think directors give a shit about what  happens to animals- not in my experience.

[wolfie1996]

6 hours ago, Dadrian said:

@wolfie1996are you a vegetarian?  

I am indeed Dadrian  Furthermore with reference to what I said to ViceFanMan, I have worked on film and TV sets (believe it or not) so have encountered directors at first hand  

Just now, wolfie1996 said:

As I said, unnecessary and gratuitous. They aren't animal welfare societies, they're producing entertainment shows. And if you think directors give a shit about what  happens to animals- not in my experience.

 

6 hours ago, Dadrian said:

 

 

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, wolfie1996 said:

As I said, unnecessary and gratuitous. They aren't animal welfare societies, they're producing entertainment shows. And if you think directors give a shit about what  happens to animals- not in my experience.

If we looked at it that way, we could say all forms of violence or abuse being shown on TV are “unnecessary & gratuitous”...as all of it is not supposed to be good things. But, then we wouldn’t have crime shows.  Don’t know if directors “care” or not...but they were trying to realistically show that sadly animal abuse does happen.

Edited May 14, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[wolfie1996]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

If we looked at it that way, we could say all forms of violence or abuse being shown on TV are “unnecessary & gratuitous”...as all of it is not supposed to be good things. But, then we wouldn’t have crime shows.  Don’t know if directors “care” or not...but they were trying to realistically show that sadly animal abuse does happen.

Two points:  1)No, because "all forms of abuse" aren't against innocent animals in order to provide entertainment. OK? and 2) this wasn't to highlight animal cruelty per se, any more than the cockfights and dogfights were. This was to underline exactly how nasty this character was. (And I bet you anything that cockerel was actually killed.) There's no need for this sort of thing and no excuse for it. If that's the only way  you can show, as a director, that somebody is a nasty piece of work, you are sadly lacking in  imagination. Let's see. What if instead of an animal or bird, that was a child he was supposed to kill(and even then it wouldn't have happened in reality). Would that be OK? Bloody censors would be up in arms about it.

[ViceFanMan]

9 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said:

Two points:  1)No, because "all forms of abuse" aren't against innocent animals in order to provide entertainment. OK? and 2) this wasn't to highlight animal cruelty per se, any more than the cockfights and dogfights were. This was to underline exactly how nasty this character was. (And I bet you anything that cockerel was actually killed.) There's no need for this sort of thing and no excuse for it. If that's the only way  you can show, as a director, that somebody is a nasty piece of work, you are sadly lacking in  imagination. Let's see. What if instead of an animal or bird, that was a child he was supposed to kill(and even then it wouldn't have happened in reality). Would that be OK? Bloody censors would be up in arms about it.

No...but all forms of abuse are against innocent, whether animals, children, or anyone. 

Yes, it was to show how nasty and bad the character was...and realistically, sadly some people do those types of things.

Sadly, it happens and we’re not supposed to like it. But, MV was a “darker” more realistic show at the time...and it pushed the proverbial envelope of what it showed on screen, compared to other crime shows of the day. Some of it was to shock you.

It sometimes amazes me how upset people get over animal abuse portrayed on screen, but they’re not as upset over child or elderly abuse shown.  

[wolfie1996]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

No...but all forms of abuse are against innocent, whether animals, children, or anyone. 

Yes, it was to show how nasty and bad the character was...and realistically, sadly some people do those types of things.

Sadly, it happens and we’re not supposed to like it. But, MV was a “darker” more realistic show at the time...and it pushed the proverbial envelope of what it showed on screen, compared to other crime shows of the day. Some of it was to shock you.

It sometimes amazes me how upset people get over animal abuse portrayed on screen, but they’re not as upset over child or elderly abuse shown.  

You're a social worker, are you not, VFM? I have to say this category of person was NOT highly regarded in the government  department I was with for a time and in the UK (I don't know about the USA) that was perfectly understandable. I used to say  they shouldn't be allowed to take the  job till they'd put in a couple of years with us. Too naive. I don't think you're correct at all that people don't get upset about child abuse or elderly abuse on screen. I personally would be extremely upset about it as I believe in defending the innocent and defenceless above everything. However,  few humans are totally innocent whereas animals always remain so and also generally lack the legal protection that humans have against abuse. My point is that the nastiness of this character could have been shown in another way.  MV was not preaching moral lessons to us most of the time. It was meant to be entertainment. Be honest. You yourself regard animals as being in a different category from  people, don't you?

[ViceFanMan]

28 minutes ago, wolfie1996 said:

You're a social worker, are you not, VFM? I have to say this category of person was NOT highly regarded in the government  department I was with for a time and in the UK (I don't know about the USA) that was perfectly understandable. I used to say  they shouldn't be allowed to take the  job till they'd put in a couple of years with us. Too naive. I don't think you're correct at all that people don't get upset about child abuse or elderly abuse on screen. I personally would be extremely upset about it as I believe in defending the innocent and defenceless above everything. However,  few humans are totally innocent whereas animals always remain so and also generally lack the legal protection that humans have against abuse. My point is that the nastiness of this character could have been shown in another way.  MV was not preaching moral lessons to us most of the time. It was meant to be entertainment. Be honest. You yourself regard animals as being in a different category from  people, don't you?

Animals are not human beings...they’re not people, this is true. However, I’m not okay with any forms of the abuse. It’s all despicable.

However, some TV shows or movies will try and realistically portray abuse...yes, sometimes for entertainment, but it’s usually not parts you’re supposed to like...they’re shown to portray how bad a person or situation is.