OBAMACARE

[chum981]

VAT is 17.5% in the UK.It's just something we're used to and don't even think about it.It went down to 15% for a little while towards the end of last year to help the economy - and that apparently worked.But then they put it up to 17.5% again...

[Frey]

Chum, do you have an income tax as well? I know a lot of European countries don't have one, but have the VAT tax. Also, a lot of states here have a sales tax. The sales tax isn't embedded in the cost of whatever you buy like the VAT is. It would be a killer here if we added the VAT in addition to the income tax and local sales taxes.

[DJAngel]

http://www.healthreform.gov/http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/policy/articles/reform_splash.html

[Frey]

Remember...FDR said that income tax would only be for the rich (sound familiar?)and would only be temporary. Only those making $30' date='000 a year (rich) were going to pay it...[/color']

The income tax was in place before FDR (1913), but I agree with your point. They claimed it would only be for those earning more than one million dollars (the top 2%).However, I am in favor of a consumption tax. If you buy something, you pay a tax. None of this class-warfare BS.If we were to get rid of the income tax and have a national sales tax/vat tax, I'd be in favor of it. Maybe we could even make it so you'd need a 2/3 majority of both houses of congress to raise the tax rate.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Chum' date=' do you have an income tax as well? I know a lot of European countries don't have one, but have the VAT tax. Also, a lot of states here have a sales tax. The sales tax isn't embedded in the cost of whatever you buy like the VAT is. It would be a killer here if we added the VAT in addition to the income tax and local sales taxes.[/quote']Let's see...I'd have a VAT tax, sales tax, state tax (CA has the highest base tax in the nation), federal tax, property tax, gas tax, it goes on, and on, and on, and on.He's bankrupting us. Who really wants to be beholden to the GOVERNMENT?

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Health Care Democrat steps down, opening seat for conservativeDemocratic Seat is set to open for a conservative.Possible 1st casualty in health care battle. MARQUETTE, Mich. – Rep. Bart Stupak insists that tea party activists outraged over his crucial support of health care legislation didn't run him out of office, but his decision to retire gives conservatives a rallying point as they target Democrats in the midterm elections.The congressman, an anti-abortion Democrat whose high-profile role in the "Obamacare" debate earned him enemies on the left and the right, said Friday that he's leaving because he's tired and has accomplished his No. 1 goal: improving health care."The tea party did not run me out," Stupak told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "If you know me and my personality, I would welcome the challenge."Stupak had been a consistent landslide winner in his sprawling northern Michigan district, and the opening now offers Republicans a ripe opportunity to regain a seat they held for decades until Stupak prevailed in 1992.His political foes — tea party activists and abortion opponents — both claimed credit for forcing him into retirement, and Michigan GOP Chairman Ron Weiser declared that the nine-term incumbent had become the first casualty of the battle over health care in Congress."Bart Stupak's decision to retire is emblematic of the many Democrats in swing districts who have been forced into casting tough votes in favor politically unpopular policies at the behest of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi," added Ken Spain, communications director for the House Republican campaign committee.No prominent or well-funded Republican, however, had stepped in to challenge Stupak, who said he was confident of winning re-election. The 58-year-old said he was withdrawing because he was worn out and wanted more family time after nearly 18 years in Congress and the grueling health care battle."I've struggled with this decision. I've wanted to leave a couple of times, but I always thought there was one more job to be done," he said at a news conference."Since the day I took office, I fought to improve the quality and accessibility of health care," he said. "My No. 1 legislative goal has been accomplished."Stupak had little national profile before the health care debate. He led a group of anti-abortion Democrats who held out against the legislation until President Barack Obama agreed to sign an executive order ensuring that federal funds would not be used for abortions. That quickly transformed him from the bane of the bill's supporters to the bane of its foes.As he announced his decision, Stupak mentioned threats he has received because of his stance on various issues, including health care."The three o'clock in the morning phone calls, that's people outside the district," he said. "That's not my district. I know these folks. They wouldn't do that. You sort of just ignore it and move on."Stupak's retirement marked the latest in a series of political setbacks for a party striving to retain control of Congress against a backdrop of recession and high unemployment.So far, 20 Democrats and 20 Republicans have either resigned or announced they will not run again in the fall, but the equal numbers mask a clear advantage for the GOP. Democrats will be defending at least a dozen potentially competitive open districts, while all but two of the Republican retirements are in generally safe GOP territory.Democrats currently have a 253-177 majority, with five vacancies that will be filled by special elections before November. It takes 218 to win a majority.There was no tangible evidence Stupak was in political jeopardy in his socially conservative district. His Democratic primary opponent supports abortion rights, and none of his three Republican challengers had reported any campaign cash on hand.Democratic strategists said Stupak's name had not appeared on any internal list of party incumbents who might be in jeopardy in the fall."Stupak has always had very high personal popularity," said Bernie Porn, a pollster with Lansing-based EPIC-MRA. "I would have difficulty believing the tea party influence in and of itself would have driven him out." Stupak defeated former state Rep. Tom Casperson with 65 percent of the vote in 2008 while fellow Democrat Obama got 50 percent of the congressional district's vote. Republican George W. Bush carried the district in 2004, while Stupak won re-election. "People up here are very independent, and they vote that way," said state Rep. Gary McDowell, a Democrat from Rudyard in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. "There's probably more ticketsplitters and more independent-thinking people in this district I would say than probably any other part of the state." With his retirement announcement, five Democratic state legislators — including Senate Democratic Leader Mike Prusi — say they may run for Stupak's seat. Kevin Elsenheimer, the state House GOP leader, also is showing interest. Tea party activists, laboring to establish themselves as a force in the 2010 campaign, were particularly vocal. In a written statement, the organization said more than 400 people turned out for a rally it held Wednesday night in Stupak's district, and another, larger event was planned as part of a nationwide Tea Party Express tour. The group announced a few days ago it would spend $250,000 on radio and television commercials seeking his defeat. "Stupak was not longer able to hide his betrayal of conservative principles because the tea party movement was determined to educate the voters in his district of his vote of betrayal for Obamacare," said Bryan Shroyer, the group's political director. Stupak unflinchingly stood up to the White House and the Democratic leadership last year when he helped assure that an early version of the health care bill included strong anti-abortion protections supported by conservative groups. At the same time, he stressed he wanted to vote for health care legislation, and it was clear he hoped to do so in the run-up to the House's key vote on the final version of the bill last month. As part of the final compromise, Obama agreed to sign an executive order stipulating that no federal funds would be used to finance abortions as a result of passage of the health care legislation. The step secured the votes of Stupak and a handful of other Democratic opponents of abortion rights, but angered anti-abortion groups who said the order was not enough.

[maynard]

"Moderates" beware...this is what happens when you ride the fence and not vote your "conscience." I put in quotes because these are hard to find in Washington anymore.

[Richie Rich]

In Central Florida, we are unlucky enough to have Alan Grayson, a Democratic Congressman who is mentally unstable, and overcome with hatred for Republicans, and has given up on even trying to control his anger (and as you can guess, a huge supporter of the Health Care Reform bill and Obama). Here he is walking into a family restaurant and taunting Republicans who were there for a meeting, trying to get them to fight with him:http://video.foxnews.com/v/4144219/congressman-picks-fight-at-restaurant/?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a4:g4:r5:c0.000000:b0:z5

[maynard]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4144219/congressman-picks-fight-at-restaurant/?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a4:g4:r5:c0.000000:b0:z5

Maybe he is related to this guy...

[maynard]

Democratic Seat is set to open for a conservative.Possible 1st casualty in health care battle. MARQUETTE' date=' Mich. – Rep. Bart Stupak insists that tea party activists outraged over his crucial support of health care legislation didn't run him out of office, but his decision to retire gives conservatives a rallying point as they target Democrats in the midterm elections.The congressman, an anti-abortion Democrat whose high-profile role in the "Obamacare" debate earned him enemies on the left and the right, said Friday that he's leaving because he's tired and has accomplished his No. 1 goal: improving health care."The tea party did not run me out," Stupak told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "If you know me and my personality, I would welcome the challenge."Stupak had been a consistent landslide winner in his sprawling northern Michigan district, and the opening now offers Republicans a ripe opportunity to regain a seat they held for decades until Stupak prevailed in 1992.His political foes — tea party activists and abortion opponents — both claimed credit for forcing him into retirement, and Michigan GOP Chairman Ron Weiser declared that the nine-term incumbent had become the first casualty of the battle over health care in Congress."Bart Stupak's decision to retire is emblematic of the many Democrats in swing districts who have been forced into casting tough votes in favor politically unpopular policies at the behest of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi," added Ken Spain, communications director for the House Republican campaign committee.No prominent or well-funded Republican, however, had stepped in to challenge Stupak, who said he was confident of winning re-election. The 58-year-old said he was withdrawing because he was worn out and wanted more family time after nearly 18 years in Congress and the grueling health care battle."I've struggled with this decision. I've wanted to leave a couple of times, but I always thought there was one more job to be done," he said at a news conference."Since the day I took office, I fought to improve the quality and accessibility of health care," he said. "My No. 1 legislative goal has been accomplished."Stupak had little national profile before the health care debate. He led a group of anti-abortion Democrats who held out against the legislation until President Barack Obama agreed to sign an executive order ensuring that federal funds would not be used for abortions. That quickly transformed him from the bane of the bill's supporters to the bane of its foes.As he announced his decision, Stupak mentioned threats he has received because of his stance on various issues, including health care."The three o'clock in the morning phone calls, that's people outside the district," he said. "That's not my district. I know these folks. They wouldn't do that. You sort of just ignore it and move on."Stupak's retirement marked the latest in a series of political setbacks for a party striving to retain control of Congress against a backdrop of recession and high unemployment.So far, 20 Democrats and 20 Republicans have either resigned or announced they will not run again in the fall, but the equal numbers mask a clear advantage for the GOP. Democrats will be defending at least a dozen potentially competitive open districts, while all but two of the Republican retirements are in generally safe GOP territory.Democrats currently have a 253-177 majority, with five vacancies that will be filled by special elections before November. It takes 218 to win a majority.There was no tangible evidence Stupak was in political jeopardy in his socially conservative district. His Democratic primary opponent supports abortion rights, and none of his three Republican challengers had reported any campaign cash on hand.Democratic strategists said Stupak's name had not appeared on any internal list of party incumbents who might be in jeopardy in the fall."Stupak has always had very high personal popularity," said Bernie Porn, a pollster with Lansing-based EPIC-MRA. "I would have difficulty believing the tea party influence in and of itself would have driven him out." Stupak defeated former state Rep. Tom Casperson with 65 percent of the vote in 2008 while fellow Democrat Obama got 50 percent of the congressional district's vote. Republican George W. Bush carried the district in 2004, while Stupak won re-election. "People up here are very independent, and they vote that way," said state Rep. Gary McDowell, a Democrat from Rudyard in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. "There's probably more ticketsplitters and more independent-thinking people in this district I would say than probably any other part of the state." With his retirement announcement, five Democratic state legislators — including Senate Democratic Leader Mike Prusi — say they may run for Stupak's seat. Kevin Elsenheimer, the state House GOP leader, also is showing interest. Tea party activists, laboring to establish themselves as a force in the 2010 campaign, were particularly vocal. In a written statement, the organization said more than 400 people turned out for a rally it held Wednesday night in Stupak's district, and another, larger event was planned as part of a nationwide Tea Party Express tour. The group announced a few days ago it would spend $250,000 on radio and television commercials seeking his defeat. "Stupak was not longer able to hide his betrayal of conservative principles because the tea party movement was determined to educate the voters in his district of his vote of betrayal for Obamacare," said Bryan Shroyer, the group's political director. Stupak unflinchingly stood up to the White House and the Democratic leadership last year when he helped assure that an early version of the health care bill included strong anti-abortion protections supported by conservative groups. At the same time, he stressed he wanted to vote for health care legislation, and it was clear he hoped to do so in the run-up to the House's key vote on the final version of the bill last month. As part of the final compromise, Obama agreed to sign an executive order stipulating that no federal funds would be used to finance abortions as a result of passage of the health care legislation. The step secured the votes of Stupak and a handful of other Democratic opponents of abortion rights, but angered anti-abortion groups who said the order was not enough.[/quote']Stupak is as Stupak does:

[maynard]

They need dispensers for these on capitol hill...

[Frey]

Coop, Maynard, Richie, & other like-minded vicers:http://www.onlinetaxrevolt.com/aboutI signed-up as a member of the "Reagan Tax Revolt Team"

[cageyJG]

I joined the Phyllis Schlafly team!

[COOPER&BURNETT]

I joined the Phyllis Schlafly team!

That's a good one also.I may join both.

[chum981]

Chum' date=' do you have an income tax as well? I know a lot of European countries don't have one, but have the VAT tax. Also, a lot of states here have a sales tax. The sales tax isn't embedded in the cost of whatever you buy like the VAT is. It would be a killer here if we added the VAT in addition to the income tax and local sales taxes.[/quote']Yes, we have income tax.It's 45% for high earners (£150,000).There are other taxes too. UK and EU in general is far more taxed than US.

[Frey]

Yes' date=' we have income tax.It's 45% for high earners (£150,000).There are other taxes too. UK and EU in general is far more taxed than US.[/quote']That's what we're trying to avoid. No one wants to take a risk in creating or expanding businesses if there's little incentive.The only job expansion we currently have is in the growth of government. Even the stimulus money is largely going to growing government. To wit:http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1246527&srvc=rsshttp://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/20100411dim_bulbs_at_irs_let_us_eat_cake

[COOPER&BURNETT]

That's what we're trying to avoid. No one wants to take a risk in creating or expanding businesses if there's little incentive.The only job expansion we currently have is in the growth of government. Even the stimulus money is largely going to growing government. To wit:http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1246527&srvc=rsshttp://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/20100411dim_bulbs_at_irs_let_us_eat_cake

Yes, Frey is correct. WHY WOULD we want to have larger tax and larger government? The Government largely has nothing to show for larger government. It's wasteful. Also, the Government bankrupts everything (social security, medicare, the U.S. postal service etc. etc. etc.) because it has proven it can't run things effeciently like the private sector.Many people overseas say this isn't the way to go, as it's failing.WHY WOULD anyone want to have this?:confused:WHY copy what doesn't work?That's what we are trying to stop.

[chum981]

Yes, I agree with Frey and C&B.There's too much tax. It hinders growth and development.Although it is essential to give the less fortunate opportunity to succeed in this world, it is equally essential not to stifle productivity - which is bound to happen with higher taxes.

[jcm8002204]

Quoting ME:Congress has now breached the processes of reconciliation...tough to understand' date=' however an option that has been used in the past....never for anything as sweeping as HealthCare.....but now that they've pass that...I'm sure that Cap and Trade will be rammed through the very same way...and I'm betting that happens well before November...The "REPEAL IT" mantra quite frankly is a weak campaign fight song...It says what you're against, not what you're for….but it’s that seems the party line..for now.I assure you, if anyone thinks a 3rd party will be legitimate..just look what happened when Perot stuck his hat in the race .... You'll guarantee a 2nd Term in 2012....Its a bad storm forming....I seriously think many many deep pocket individuals will simply expatriate themselves and leave......[/quote']I see a lot of folks getting One Way Tickets...completely dependent upon the 2010 election cycle.....Unless the USA reverses the continued depletion of its manufacturing base (a 'service' economy is BS) we're doomed...I highly recommend Peter Schiff's CrashProof 2.0For anyone that doubts Schiff's foresight, or think he's just another talking head throwoff...view this compilation of predictions:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpwDead ON...

[Richie Rich]

Oh no. He's done it again. This time, to a communist, just for good measure.http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/04/obama-bows-again-to-communist-china-america-hangs-head-in-shame.html

[COOPER&BURNETT]

BEWARE!!!!Look at what they are up to now. Trying to smear good people who don't want to higher taxes or GOVERNMENT health care (the popularity of health care is dropping in polls even more now, now that they can finally read it)The tea party movement has proven to be a peaceful, so to destroy the reputation of them, to once again devide us, these people are once again trying to disrupt things on purpose to make good peaceful people look homophobic, and racist. How nasty! Just remember, if anything bad happens, and problems arise, now you know the TRUE reason why. First back door deals, bullying, and payoffs by the U.S. HOUSE & SENATE to forcefully pass this monsterous, extremely unpopular bill, now this. Do you like the direction this country is going??

[Frey]

BEWARE!!!!Look at what they are up to now. Trying to smear good people who don't want to higher taxes or GOVERNMENT health care (the popularity of health care is dropping in polls even more now" data-date=" now that they can finally read it)The tea party movement has proven to be a peaceful, so to destroy the reputation of them, to once again devide us, these people are once again trying to disrupt things on purpose.Just remember, if anything bad happens, and problems arise, now you know the TRUE reason why. First back door deals, bullying, payoffs by the U.S. HOUSE & SENATE to pass this monsterous bill, now this. Do you like the way this country is going??[IMG">

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/hpqscan0001.jpg

Thanks for posting. I just heard about that earlier today.It wouldn't surprise me if those claims of "shouting the n-word", spitting on congressmen, and death threats were actually orchestrated by democrats as a hoax to try and pass us off as a bunch of racist murderers.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Thanks for posting. I just heard about that earlier today.It wouldn't surprise me if those claims of "shouting the n-word"' date=' spitting on congressmen, and death threats were actually orchestrated by democrats as a hoax to try and pass us off as a bunch of racist murderers. [/quote']You know it was.They are recuiting people for this.

[Frey]

I was just watching Fox news and a DEMOCRAT strategist (Doug Schoen) made the following predictions for the November elections:House: Republicans gain 40-50 seats (41 needed to fire Pelosi as speaker).Senate: Republicans gain 8-9 seats (10 needed for majority).This is coming from a DEMOCRAT!

[COOPER&BURNETT]

I was just watching Fox news and a DEMOCRAT strategist (Doug Schoen) made the following predictions for the November elections:House: Republicans gain 40-50 seats (41 needed to fire Pelosi as speaker).Senate: Republicans gain 8-9 seats (10 needed for majority).This is coming from a DEMOCRAT!

Well' date=' November is still several months away, and the dems are betting that the nation will forget the health care issue months from now.DONT FORGET!