Too much, too late

[Matt5]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

That house was also in The big Thaw.

That’s the one Thankyou. 

[airtommy]

I think we are seeing the back side of the house.  In the second shot we are looking at the same side but now we see the street in front of the house.

Tubbs drives into the back yard from behind/side of the house.  On the side, the roof line goes (starting from the front) up then down then it flattens out in the very back.  Notice the back roof line is extended out on the far end for an extra room.  Notice also the long, tall building next door.  It has a round window with a fan.

I studied 3612 Percival (across from Virrick Park) for a while, but I don't think it's right.  I went there in person but there is too much vegetation to see the back of the house.  It's also hard to see the house next door.

[Matt5]

“Too Much Too Late” , 1989 and 2019. Our hero’s were parked here on Washington Avenue.

[Matt5]

During the opening credits of this 1989 episode we see a night time shot of an airliner with a beautiful full moon. This was stock footage from the movie “Scrooged” filmed in 1988 in NYC so more than likely JFK, La Guardia or Newark airports. 
 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Matt5

[Dadrian]

@Matt5 can you remind me when that scene in Scrooged happens? That’s one of my favorite movies, and I’m totally stumped.   

[Matt5]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

@Matt5 can you remind me when that scene in Scrooged happens? That’s one of my favorite movies, and I’m totally stumped.   

Im so sorry it was not “Scrooged” it was “Moonstruck” the 1987 Oscar winning film starring Cher -all  the family and I watched those movies back to back Christmas Eve. Moonstruck was also filmed in NYC and Brooklyn - so the airports are still the same.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

UNKNOWN LOCATION (TMTL/CC1)

Here is my sketch for the unknown location of Yvonne´s house. My guess is some ordinary open area of Coconut Grove. Such a house has a higher likelihood having been torn down or remodelled since filming.

 

[Tom]

Just scanned the whole area with and without Historic aerials again and no find.

Meanwhile, I consider if that is the right area at all (although it looks perfect from the type of house and minimal vegetation), because:

• 95% of all houses in that area between Loquat (southern limit), Dixie (western limit), Bird Ave (northern limit) and Main Highway/Mary Street (eastern limit) are facing the street with their narrow side, in the episode Yvonne´s house and the opposite neighbor house are facing the street with their broad side.
• 95% of houses in that area have quite a distance between their front and the street, Yvonne´s house and the opposite neighbor were very close to the street with nearly no pedestrian walk or driveway between them and the street

The few houses left that match the search scheme basically are no fit.

I doubt that it´s there with so many people over the years looking in that small section even with historic aerials in case it has been torn down in the meantime. But I doubt that all three houses (see my sketch above) have been torn down and this unique pattern of three houses must be visible at least on the 1986 aerials.

 

[airtommy]

I just completed a careful search of Coconut Grove and I agree it's not there.  A few decent candidates were: 3612 Percival, 3540 Florida, 3550 Thomas.   I'm really surprised it's not in the Grove.

I looked briefly at the area west of Red Rd between 68th and 64th, but didn't find anything.  It must be in Overtown.

[Tom]

According to Google Overtown has no small residential homes left to check. I would look in other areas (not many left) with these kind of smaller homes with a bit green around, eg Alapattah or the NE grid near the studio. I am also surprised that even on historic aerials are no matches.

PS I see no matches at all with „decent candidates“ above especially as they are  facing the street with their narrow side and not with their long front. That’s an immediate knock out criteria for 95% of all houses there. We look for even two buildings on both sides of the street facing the street with their long fronts.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

5 locations missing in this last regular episode. That´s an unsatisfying record! Love at first sight and Miami Squeeze have 4 unknown locations each still.

Apart from Yvonne´s house, we have still

• dinner Tubbs-Valerie (believed to be Mayfair in the Grove due to eyewitness report, the color scheme and some similarities with the round flower designs, but not 100% verified when we compare with Jack of all trades dinner scenes that were filmed there)
• Tubbs/Valerie apartment (proposal and other dialogue scenes in 1 single locations as proven below; glass block pattern roughly resembles the one in the bar scenes but that is a shaky assumption!)
• the Swayne apartment (real apartment; the outside square white pattern resembles what we see in the background of the bar with Izzy!) and
• the bar with C&T&Izzy (could be the same location as Swayne´s apartment)

P.S. I added the unknown locations to our bucket list in the Call all Detectives thread to keep the full picture in one place.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Tom

[Matt5]

When I was in the Savoy I believe there has been major renovation since 1987. In 2014 I believe the larger rooms and areas we see in “Hard Knocks” and possibly “Too Much Too Late” have been partitioned off into smaller rooms. For example the room we see in “Baseballs of Death” I believe must have been at the front of the property but today is just an empty room with no bar area. The corridor picture below I took I believe could be the corridor we see in “Too Much Too Late” but 27 years later.

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Matt5

[Matt5]

I believe the unknown location Swain apartment scenes at the end could have been filmed in one of the suites of The Mayfair Hotel in Coconut Grove. The unique window design as @Tom mentions gives me that idea. We know they filmed the Stan on the pay phone scene here outside on Rice Street and Florida Ave.

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Matt5:

I believe the Swain apartment scenes at the end could have been filmed in one of the suites of The Mayfair Hotel in Coconut Grove. The unique window design as @Tom mentions gives me that idea. We know they filmed the Stan on the phone scene here outside on Rice Street and Florida Ave.

 

Wow, that is a strong circumstancial evidence I would say, as this pattern is pretty unique and a revolving theme throughout the Mayfair. This is the first evidence linking Swayne´s apartment to a specific location. 

Meantime, I doublechecked who gave us the tip with the Mayfair complex as a major filming location of this episode in the first place and it was our trustworthy member DJ Angel. She wrote on the old site (mv.org, exact post lost at least for me) in 2007 or 2008 that she was in Miami end of March 89 and got to the Mayfair as she was told the crew would be filming parts of the episode there.

So far, we have only proof of the Switek call scene outside on Florida and Rice and I bet that the whole crew did not settle there only for this small scene. The other scene in question is the dinner of Rico and Valerie that has some vague similarity with the Mayfair restaurant, but the Jack of all trades scenes do not show any clear matches.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

I double checked with the Mayfair facade. And, what we see behind Swayne is definitely the Mayfair facade pattern, it matches on all sides of the building in the upper floors and all suites and executive rooms. See pictures below.

What is interesting though: I think behind Swayne we see an inner yard with a second set of that same facade pattern on the other side of the yard. This is a bit hard to understand, as the inner yard of the Mayfair hotel (also seen in French Twist), has no such facade patterns. Also the opposite buildings, e.g. the one on Florida Street  connected with the hotel by a bridge do not have such a pattern. But maybe they had in 1989?

But for me it is evident that Swayne´s apartment must have been a suite or an apartment of the Mayfair hotel complex.

@C Glide good enough for a confirmed new location find?

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Tom

[airtommy]

Nice work, Matt5.  What a bountiful summer we are having!

 

[Tom]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Matt5:

When I was in the Savoy I believe there has been major renovation since 1987. In 2014 I believe the larger rooms and areas we see in “Hard Knocks” and possibly “Too Much Too Late” have been partitioned off into smaller rooms. For example the room we see in “Baseballs of Death” I believe must have been at the front of the property but today is just an empty room with no bar area. The corridor picture below I took I believe could be the corridor we see in “Too Much Too Late” but 27 years later.

 

Thanks Matt! I don´t see much mutualities between these two corridors, but maybe you have other pics from Savoy/Woody´s interior that could bring more light into this?

[Matt5]

24 minutes ago, airtommy said:

Nice work, Matt5.  What a bountiful summer we are having!

 

Thankyou - pleased to contribute.

 

[Matt5]

Although I cannot confirm 100% the dinner scene with Tubbs and Val must have been shot at the Mayfair in the front section of the Mayfair grill restaurant. See the seashell design on the fabric of the booth which they are sitting on which matches the seashell chairs we see in “Jack of all Trades”. Also in the first picture the wood design of the seating booth and wood glass frames match behind Tubbs and Valerie. The second picture of the Mayfair grill must have been pre Or post 1989 whichever way the strong glass pattern is not there. Thoughts? 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Matt5:

Although I cannot confirm 100% the dinner scene with Tubbs and Val must have been shot at the Mayfair in the front section of the Mayfair grill restaurant. See the seashell design on the fabric of the booth which they are sitting on which matches the seashell chairs we see in “Jack of all Trades”. Also in the first picture the wood design of the seating booth and wood glass frames match behind Tubbs and Valerie. The second picture of the Mayfair grill must have been pre 1989.

Thanks again, another great evidence!

Although the glass paintings behind T&V are not on any other pics we have from the Mayfair Restaurant, the curved wooden frames below the flowers in both pics and the seashells are strong evidence. Most probably your second pic shows the exact same sitting area just on the other side of the wooden wall, as the curved wooden frames underneath the flowers are exactly the same, but the squared side columns in your pic do not exist on the other side due to the place needed for the sitting booth?

I suspected that location all along anyway but had never the chance to prove it though. We all know that @C Glideis very picky on proof 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

LOCATION FOUND: YVONNE´S APARTMENT

This is a studio set. 100%. Easy proof. Just don´t know why I haven´t noticed before..

Early in the teaser, we see a bird´s shot from above of Yvonne´s apartment, filmed from approx. 3-5m. This would be simply impossible to film within the 1-story house we see from the outside. This is only explainable with a studio set and a crane.

There are other clues as well:

• the typical "dead windows" (one colored "wall" behind the window and unnatural lightning)
• the fridge built INTO the wall (no one with such a home would spend money on a tailor made wall for a built-in fridge, but just place one in the kitchen.)
• the fully vicey apartment where every color scheme detail cries Miami Vice in pink and turquoise ... no way this is a real home that somebody in this income class has designed himself!
• the layout of the apartment interior and the exterior does not match at all. When Tubbs approaches the back door in the far left of the back.. he ends up at the far right corner of the apartment. This would be impossible with the exterior we see. Let alone that the backdoor is at an 90 degree angle to the rest of the building. Either he must enter the room at that 90 degree angle, or if there is a second interior door behind it (which is what we see when Tubbs bursts into the room and Swayne splits. But in this case, Tubbs would have had to open two doors...hard to surprise Swayne....)

I haven´t found Yvonne´s house exterior location yet, but I´ll start another round this weekend. That´s why I came across this clear case of studio set.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

NEW LOCATION FIND: THE "CHURCH" / SWITEK´S GAMBLERS MEET, 3635 Grand Ave, Coconut Grove

Same location as in Child´s play. Same square shaped wooden columns and even the same picture on the wall behind.

I scanned all over Coconut Grove/Grand Ave/Mayfair are (as they used it in both eps, but only one known scene at the Ace Theater in Child´s Play) but nothing as this church has big square shaped windows which is pretty unique. TMTL filmed also in South Beach and on Harding Ave, North MB.

The building is gone (demolished after 2007, new condo complex built later), but on historic aerials it is still recognizable. The unique shape of the building (narrowed right back section) with the tilted roof and the diagonal cornered rooflines and the fitting trees outside leave little doubt.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

Am 9.6.2013 um 12:31 schrieb Matt5:

On re-watching this episode last nite - The Savoy site at 455 Ocean Drive ( former "Woody's on the Beach" ) - I could see the entrance of the lobby but the large bar area does not exist anymore but are seperate rooms. The long corridor Tubbs walks down is still there. Still very cool to visit this location .

@Matt5does this mean that you can confirm the bar scenes with C&T&Izzy were filmed inside the Woody’s property?

[Dadrian]

Wrong thread, but I have to say this is most aptly named episode of the whole series  

[Matt5]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:24 PM, Tom said:

@Matt5does this mean that you can confirm the bar scenes with C&T&Izzy were filmed inside the Woody’s property?

Well there have been developments and changes since 1989 but I would say yes after being inside.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Matt5