Episode #68 "Heroes Of The Revolution"

[pahonu]

It was brought up earlier in this thread, but I too have wondered about Gina’s name, and beyond all the questions of who her father really was based on the episode.  Calabrese is definitely Italian not Latino as the actress Saundra Santiago is (Cuban/Puerto Rican, I believe).  It essentially translates as native to Calabria or speaker of the Calabrian dialect.  This is the southernmost part of Italy, the toe of the boot, kicking Sicily.  The name really doesn’t fit well with any Cuban story line. 

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, pahonu said:

It was brought up earlier in this thread, but I too have wondered about Gina’s name, and beyond all the questions of who her father really was based on the episode.  Calabrese is definitely Italian not Latino as the actress Saundra Santiago is (Cuban/Puerto Rican, I believe).  It essentially translates as native to Calabria or speaker of the Calabrian dialect.  This is the southernmost part of Italy, the toe of the boot, kicking Sicily.  The name really doesn’t fit well with any Cuban story line. 

I don’t think we ever truly learned who her biological father was...maybe he was killed by Pedrosa as well, before Gina’s mother met Klaus, as Pedrosa seemed obsessed with her? Maybe Gina’s biological father’s name was Calabrese...or that’s just the name of other relatives or people who ended up adopting and/or raising her? 

[vicegirl85]

3 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

I don’t think we ever truly learned who her biological father was...maybe he was killed by Pedrosa as well, before Gina’s mother met Klaus, as Pedrosa seemed obsessed with her? Maybe Gina’s biological father’s name was Calabrese...or that’s just the name of other relatives or people who ended up adopting and/or raising her? 

It was my impression as well, that we never learned the name of Gina's father.  This episode didn't clear anything up, LOL.  Possibly Klaus may have been Gina's father, but this was never stated.  It was my impression that he was her mom's boyfriend and that her father had died/ been killed, whether before her birth or while she was an infant.

It was also stated at one point (I think!) that Gina was brought to the US and raised by an aunt and uncle.  If the aunt was her mom's sister, the uncle's name could have been Calabrese and he may have been Italian/of Italian ancestry. 

She told Sean Carroon that she had several brothers and sisters, but we never found out where she fell in birth order, etc., or indeed if she was adopted by the people who raised her. 

I read the first two MV novels by Stephen Grave way back during the series run.  Those two novels combined basically 2 episodes apiece from the first season, starting with the pilot.  There were some extra character details which I don't believe were ever stated in the series, and were possibly inserted in the novels to add to the sketchy background provided by the show--but may have had no actual basis in the series.  It's possible I got that "aunt and uncle" from the books; it's been a long time and I don't remember!   

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said:

It was my impression as well, that we never learned the name of Gina's father.  This episode didn't clear anything up, LOL.  Possibly Klaus may have been Gina's father, but this was never stated.  It was my impression that he was her mom's boyfriend and that her father had died/ been killed, whether before her birth or while she was an infant.

It was also stated at one point (I think!) that Gina was brought to the US and raised by an aunt and uncle.  If the aunt was her mom's sister, the uncle's name could have been Calabrese and he may have been Italian/of Italian ancestry. 

She told Sean Carroon that she had several brothers and sisters, but we never found out where she fell in birth order, etc., or indeed if she was adopted by the people who raised her. 

I read the first two MV novels by Stephen Grave way back during the series run.  Those two novels combined basically 2 episodes apiece from the first season, starting with the pilot.  There were some extra character details which I don't believe were ever stated in the series, and were possibly inserted in the novels to add to the sketchy background provided by the show--but may have had no actual basis in the series.  It's possible I got that "aunt and uncle" from the books; it's been a long time and I don't remember!   

I’m not sure about the aunt & uncle either...for some reason I thought I remember something about a grandmother...but maybe it was an aunt?  I should remember these aspects as many times as I’ve seen the show! 

Part of me wants to think Klaus secretly was Gina’s father (as I really liked the character & wished he’d of shown back up in a later episode)...but another part of me thinks he’d of contacted Gina years before this if she was his daughter (even if Pedrosa hadn’t been in Miami). Plus, he’d of definitely taken her with him, after Gina’s mom’s death.

However, if he was her father, maybe Klaus felt it safer for Gina (from Pedrosa & what he himself set out to do—track down Pedrosa & take revenge) to let other relatives take custody & raise her? But, that’s all just supposition & what-if theories. It still seems pretty out-there (although it was MV ). 

I think Klaus cared very much for Gina, and if he and Gina’s mother had married I think he would have been like a father to Gina...but I seriously question if they were biologically related. Obviously Gina wasn’t given Klaus’ name, and the Calabrese came from either her biological father (if it wasn’t Klaus & was some other guy we as viewers were never told about), or another relative that took custody of & probably adopted her after her mom’s murder. 

[Robbie C.]

10 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

It was my impression as well, that we never learned the name of Gina's father.  This episode didn't clear anything up, LOL.  Possibly Klaus may have been Gina's father, but this was never stated.  It was my impression that he was her mom's boyfriend and that her father had died/ been killed, whether before her birth or while she was an infant.

It was also stated at one point (I think!) that Gina was brought to the US and raised by an aunt and uncle.  If the aunt was her mom's sister, the uncle's name could have been Calabrese and he may have been Italian/of Italian ancestry. 

She told Sean Carroon that she had several brothers and sisters, but we never found out where she fell in birth order, etc., or indeed if she was adopted by the people who raised her. 

I read the first two MV novels by Stephen Grave way back during the series run.  Those two novels combined basically 2 episodes apiece from the first season, starting with the pilot.  There were some extra character details which I don't believe were ever stated in the series, and were possibly inserted in the novels to add to the sketchy background provided by the show--but may have had no actual basis in the series.  It's possible I got that "aunt and uncle" from the books; it's been a long time and I don't remember!   

The novels can't be taken seriously when it comes to character background in my opinion...considering they have Switek's name as Bubba in a couple of places. I have some of them kicking around, and they're really kinda scary...

I'm also rather suspicious of the background they used in Heroes of the Revolution just because Vice's always-shakey continuity really starts going by the wayside after season 2. I'd be more inclined to accept what was shown earlier, honestly. But if you're looking for alternative theories, maybe Klaus ran Gina's mother (or possibly the father we never see) as an asset, and felt responsible for what happened to her and wanted to protect her daughter because he'd failed the mother (this trope was used on NCIS LA to reasonable effect with the Hetty/Callen relationship until that show went off the rails right around season 10).

It's also equally possible they just cooked the whole thing up to make an interesting episode showcasing Saundra and then tossed the whole thing in the continuity trash and went on with things...

[Tom]

Beyond the story details mentioned above, the whole story backbone of that episode did not make sense. 
 

1. Gina’s last name is Italian- most likely from southern province of Calabria- , why the Cuban plot?

2.  if Herzog was such a deadly professional and so dedicated to kill Pedroza in revenge (as seen at the end of the teaser) why the heck did he wait 20+ years for revenge ? Pedroza’s location was no secret for the East German intelligence on Cuba(!) for sure. 
3. Let’s assume the 20 year delay for the revenge kill was logical due to length of investigation where Pedroza is: why not just sneak in cat-like (Pedroza was allegedly so well trained) and shoot Pedroza in his own house or use a snipers shot from a tree? Why build up (beloved) Gina as a musical bait in a complicated plot to lure Pedroza to the Blue Note Club?especially as this was dangerous for Gina (she looked like her mother and that would rather entice Pedroza to repeat the Cuban kill again)

4. Crockett&Tubbs going to NYC for a tail instead of asking the NYPD or FBI for assistance was unrealistic too

this episode jumped the shark for script logic in my opinion and this together with missing music and action made the worst last season (cliffhanger) episode from all seasons.

 

[RedDragon86]

Even the name Gina is primarily a female name of Italian origin.

 

[ViceFanMan]

Gina’s mother was Cuban...maybe her biological father was Italian? I got the impression that Klaus was not Gina’s bio-dad, but got with Gina’s mom not long after she was born.

 I don’t think Klaus waited 26 years to hunt down & take revenge on Pedrosa...from what he said in the episode I think he’d been hunting him down at different times & places over those years. But, Pedrosa was underground a lot, well hidden & insulated, and I think knew Klaus was after him...so he had people watching & alerting him when they saw Klaus...and so Pedrosa would leave for somewhere else.

I think it took Klaus quite a while to hunt Pedrosa down in a new place, and figure out where he’d gone to. There may have been months or even a couple years where he didn’t even know where Pedrosa was at.

Overall I love the plot, characters, acting, and it was a superb episode that showcased Gina/Saundra. However, there were some issues...such as how Pedrosa & Klaus both didn’t seem to age.  Shows back then many times didn’t stick to a character’s background or continuity with that character. They’d do one episode on that character & then maybe you’d never hear about that plot or background again. Or a later episode would even contradict, to an extent, a character’s background from a previous episode. MV was no different. 

Nowadays you have character backgrounds & personal lives that not only might be showcased, to an extent, for a whole season...but they might be brought up throughout a show’s entire run. And, the continuity is usually much better. MV was still during a time when with crime dramas, you just go with what’s in that episode...as the next may be totally different and/or the previous one is never brought up again.

[vicegirl85]

3 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

(snipped)  It's also equally possible they just cooked the whole thing up to make an interesting episode showcasing Saundra and then tossed the whole thing in the continuity trash and went on with things...

LOL, this is what I tend to believe!

 

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said:

LOL, this is what I tend to believe!

 

I second that as well.

She was an American girl with Italian parents, the whole Cuban background was just thrown in as Robbie says.

For a season finale it was poor, "Forgive Us Our Debts" would have been awesome as the final season 3 episode.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

I second that as well.

She was an American girl with Italian parents, the whole Cuban background was just thrown in as Robbie says.

For a season finale it was poor, "Forgive Us Our Debts" would have been awesome as the final season 3 episode.  

I tend to agree that the whole storyline of Gina’s background was created for this episode...although it could have been explained better or more in-depth if they had brought back the Klaus character in a future episode.

But, crime shows back then were mostly about having each episode a separate thing/plot...they didn’t usually continue a main character’s personal life in multiple episodes, like they do now.

 I’m not saying that “Forgive Us Our Debts” wouldn’t have been a good season finale as well...but I love the episode “Heroes”, and have no problem with it as the finale for the season. With shows back then, you just had to use your imagination & go with each episode. 

[dragon48]

A quick Google search shows that Saundra Santiago actually sang, which is impressive.  She has a great voice, and the songs were well done.  Pretty boring otherwise.  This reminds me to rate all the episodes on IMDB.
 

[ViceFanMan]

46 minutes ago, dragon48 said:

A quick Google search shows that Saundra Santiago actually sang, which is impressive.  She has a great voice, and the songs were well done.  Pretty boring otherwise.  This reminds me to rate all the episodes on IMDB.
 

Yes, Saundra also sang, and was able to use that talent as well, in this episode. I love this one, and don’t find it boring at all...very “deep” & emotional one for the character of Gina—very well acted & done! 

[ViceFanMan]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:25 AM, Jack Gretsky said:

It's interesting that we start and end the season with a Gina-centric episode.  It was cool seeing Saundra Santiago playing her mother and a singer in the prologue.  It says "1961," but that would make Gina 23 at the time of the first Miami Vice show in 1984 - and had been a detective already for awhile.  Is that too young?  Santiago, for the record, was born in 1957.  Whichever the case, whether as Gina or her mother, she sure makes a hot and lovely singer! 

In the episode "baby" Gina looks to be possibly around 1...maybe 2 in 1961 (not necessarily a new born infant)...so in the episode she could have supposedly been born in 1959 or 1960. That's only 2 or 3 years from when Saundra was actually born (1957)...and that's not a big "jump" for an actor or actress to play a part a few years younger. Don was around 35 when the show started, but character wise Crockett was supposedly around 31-32...as later in the show, in the episode "A Bullet For Crockett", he is said to be 35 then.

As for aging, I still find it somewhat humorous that the characters of Klaus and Pedrosa never seem to age...they looked the same from 1961 to 1987. But, that was in the days of having to use your imagination and just go with it. I miss those days!  

[ViceFanMan]

This is just a goofy quirk I happened to notice, and this is a poor quality photo, but I took it from my cell phone directly off the TV, lol!  But, I guess even the ash trays had to be MV teal!  

Ironically this was Season 3, when they were trying to do-away with the pastels...but this is a clip from the finale "Heroes of the Revolution". So, maybe they were already trying to reintegrate some pastels into the show, as in Seasons 4-5 they basically went back to them (which was one of the few positives for those seasons). 

[Sebax]

Some continuity problems but, overall, I enjoyed the episode.

Everytime Cuba is mentioned in a film or series, reminds me of Godfather II and Scarface, I love that vibe.

And this is, I think, the episode with the happiest ending of all. Any other ending (Pedroza alive, Klaus arrested) would've been disappointing. It was such a relief.

Oh, and the taxi scene was good too.

7,5/10

[ViceFanMan]

On 7/5/2021 at 4:36 PM, ViceFanMan said:

I really love this episode and it's one of my favorites of the season! Oddly enough we started the season with Gina...and we end with her. Awesome, and somewhat rare! I only wish that Trudy could have had more episodes about her, as well as Stan & some with him.

Saundra Santiago did a superb acting job in this one...as well as proved that she could sing superbly as well! I love the plot, the past history of how Gina's mother was murdered when she was a baby, and her mother's old lover, Klaus Herzog, finally tracking down the killer, Pedrosa, for revenge 26 years later. This one was a very "deep" and emotional one for Gina...and it was captivating and was a superb way to end the season (as the previous couple episodes, “Viking Bikers” & “Showbiz”, were really bad)!

I love Tubbs' line: "Do I look like a Russian to you?"  Probably the funniest line out of the whole episode. I also love the action scenes--such as the gun fight at the dry cleaners, where Gina and Trudy shoot it out with some of Pedrosa's hitmen. If I'm not mistaken, I believe one of the cars involved in the accident, after Trudy shoots the bad guys car, was Silk's old 1976 Pontiac Gran Prix painted in the MV teal color scheme (Silk was played by Wesley Snipes in the earlier episode "Streetwise"). They must have still had that old teal Pontiac around after "Streetwise" and recycled it to be used in this episode for the shoot out scene.

I really liked the scene where Klaus shows up at Gina's apartment and explains who he is, and his past with her mother. But, I really love the scene where Gina explains to Castillo why she has not arrested Herzog yet, and how it ties in with the murder of her mother--beautiful, beautiful scene!! I also liked the background Jan Hammer songs and colors used with lighting and filming locations. Gina and Trudy's clothes and fashion were pretty cool in this one too.

As bizarre as this might sound, I also liked the "vehicle usage" in this...with regular showings of Crockett's Testarossa, Gina & Trudy's silver Cougar, Switek's neon green van, etc...however, we didn't get to see Tubbs' Caddy or Switek's T-Bird. Again, I also loved the action in this episode (as it seemed a little more personal) and I really enjoyed the ending scene...where Klaus and Pedrosa have their gunplay...but ultimately Gina gets to be the one to shoot Pedrosa and avenge her mother's death!  

However, I do have one question I felt was not really clarified...was Pedrosa Gina's father, or was Klaus, or was it some other guy? I got the impression Pedrosa originally was Gina's mother's boyfriend...then when she discovered how psychotic he was she dumped him and got with Klaus. But, neither man was ever really stated or hinted at as being Gina's father...so I didn't know?

The only issue I sort of have (but don’t really care that much about) with this episode is, Klaus & Pedrosa never aged in 26 years. They basically stepped from 1961 directly into 1987, lol.  But, it’s 80s TV, and I miss those days of being expected to use your imagination and just go-with-it!  I actually wish the character of Klaus would have been brought back later for another episode. 

Anyway, this is just a wonderful, captivating, and superb episode & perfect for the season finale! The plot, acting, singing, colors, music, cars, fashion, etc...were all there! I originally gave this a 10...still do!!

@Sebax This was my latest review of this episode…it’s one of my favorites of the season! 

[NeonHumidity]

Gina's backstory/continuity is not as messed up as it may seem:

• She seems to be about a year old or a bit less in the beginning (she stands with help, doesn't say anything at all, and isn't shown walking), so she was born some time in 1960.
• Klaus is definitely not her dad; he says to Elena "we should make one of our own".
• Gina says during the episode that her father was killed during the Revolution.  Historically, that may mean he was killed during the fighting after 1959... assuming that that story is true, and not like the one Gina was told about her mother being killed due to "her anti-Communist activities".  Strong headcanon here that he was killed while Elena was pregnant with Gina, giving her more time to become involved with Klaus.
• There is a very vague possibility Pedrosa could be her biological father, but you'd think the show would have made something out of it, in that case.  As it is, he never even knows who Gina is.
• Klaus says Gina's aunt (presumably maternal; Elena's sister) took her out of Cuba within "days" after Elena was killed.
• We know nothing about her aunt, so it seems fairly easy to assume she could have married a fellow Catholic Italian immigrant and gone on to have the "three sisters, two brothers" Gina refers to in "When Irish Eyes Are Crying".
• Her aunt’s husband, Mr. Calabrese, would then be the "father" who told Gina "never get involved with a man on the rebound".

Source: I like her.  I like her a lot.    And I like straightening out backstories.

Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity

[Robbie C.]

I also spend a fair amount of time straightening out backstories, but with Vice it's complicated by a number of factors (not least of which is the fact the show itself didn't seem to care much about such things). Sometimes all we can do is sort out a backstory to our own satisfaction, lining it up with what little we're given (especially in the case of characters other than Castillo, Crockett, and maybe Tubbs).

That said, I prefer to rely on earlier episodes for character stuff, since there's still a chance they were paying attention to the original character concepts. Later on...not so much. In this case, I'd say WIEAC is more reliable than HotR for that reason.

[NeonHumidity]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:54 PM, Robbie C. said:

That said, I prefer to rely on earlier episodes for character stuff, since there's still a chance they were paying attention to the original character concepts. Later on...not so much. In this case, I'd say WIEAC is more reliable than HotR for that reason.

Fair enough approach, but I wouldn't discount later episodes over earlier ones simply because of airing order.  Production staff and possibly even writers may not have paid much attention, but I'm pretty sure someone would have realized they were telling two diverging stories about Gina in the same season...?

Additionally, HotR is clearly the more Gina-focused episode; since WIEAC is a relationship-based one with Carroon; if not for a couple of offhand remarks (the siblings and Catholic school), we wouldn't know anything extra about her.  Sean even asks her why she became a cop (big opening...!), and she just demurs, saying she wanted to help people.

I can see picking an explanation over another one when there's a clear conflict, but Gina's Italian-American and Cubana stories and backgrounds are not incompatible.  She just ends up as a character with more layers, and as someone who's not Crockett or Castillo, that's not a bad thing.

[Robbie C.]

11 hours ago, NeonHumidity said:

Fair enough approach, but I wouldn't discount later episodes over earlier ones simply because of airing order.  Production staff and possibly even writers may not have paid much attention, but I'm pretty sure someone would have realized they were telling two diverging stories about Gina in the same season...?

Additionally, HotR is clearly the more Gina-focused episode; since WIEAC is a relationship-based one with Carroon; if not for a couple of offhand remarks (the siblings and Catholic school), we wouldn't know anything extra about her.  Sean even asks her why she became a cop (big opening...!), and she just demurs, saying she wanted to help people.

I can see picking an explanation over another one when there's a clear conflict, but Gina's Italian-American and Cubana stories and backgrounds are not incompatible.  She just ends up as a character with more layers, and as someone who's not Crockett or Castillo, that's not a bad thing.

Continuity wasn't a big thing with Vice (Castillo is an exception, but that's because EJO had provisions to retain some input/control with his character). Layers are one thing, sloppy continuity is another. I could see them running HotR because it did have a nice plot angle for Saundra (and after losing John Diehl they needed to do something to boost other characters), but that doesn't mean the episode makes sense in terms of continuity for the character. There's also about an 8 month writing gap between the two episodes (the version of WIEAC on Script City is a 2nd draft dated 7/10/86, and the version of HotR is a revision from 3/13/87). They also have different writers (Dick Wolf is listed as the sole writer for HotR, and he's not the best by any means when it comes to character continuity or development).

That doesn't mean HotR is a bad story, but it also doesn't fit well with what we know about Gina before (and crucially after) that episode.

[NeonHumidity]

29 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

That doesn't mean HotR is a bad story, but it also doesn't fit well with what we know about Gina before (and crucially after) that episode.

I'm confused.  How doesn't it fit with what we know about Gina, prior or after?  She also speaks fluent Spanish to a native-enough level to get annoyed with someone's mispronunciation of "Echevarría", which is far less-likely for an Italian-American kid who seemingly grew up far from Miami, as Saundra's accent indicates.

HotR actually explains why.

For that matter, if anyone can explain to me where in continuity the "Navarro" last name comes from, I'd appreciate it.

Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity

[vicegirl85]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:41 AM, RedDragon86 said:

Even the name Gina is primarily a female name of Italian origin.

 

Perhaps the form "Gina" is more likely to be used by people with Italian heritage.  However, basically it's a nickname or diminutive for "Regina," which is a name that comes from Latin and is used in both Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking cultures as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_(given_name)

[NeonHumidity]

Interestingly enough, her (apparent) birth surname of Navarro is Basque-derived, not even Spanish, just to mix things up some more.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarro_(surname)

I have my own theories about Gina's name (including that it is Regina) but it should be noted that "Regina" in Spanish is not pronounced the way that would lead to "Gina".  https://www.behindthename.com/name/regina
 

However, I can also see Elena liking the name and nickname and not caring.  Cross-cultural names are a thing, and Gina is not as far out as naming her "Harriet", or something.

[RedDragon86]

My issue is not so much if she is Cuban or Italian its the fact that Sandra plays her mother, it ruins the viewers emotional investment in it, for me anyway

I just can't take it seriously.

Someone like Maria Conchita Alonso should have played her mother.