vicegirl85 Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said: I don’t think they officially cremated Angelina‘s remains, and they probably just had them in the full-size casket for her. As for who had legal rights to her remains? Well obviously her so-called family wasn’t going to do anything about it, and there was no one else, so I’m sure Tubbs stepped in and took charge of that, paid for it (I’m sure OCB team helped him), etc... Yes, it certainly wasn't stated if Angelina's remains were cremated or not. It doesn't make sense to me that they wouldn't, after the damage caused by the explosion. But, that's just my opinion and it wasn't necessary for the show to state that. But as far as Tubbs stepping up to take charge of the remains, funeral, etc.--yes, but most likely there was some legality/ red tape, etc. to carry out in order for him to do this, and I'm sure that took some time. Again, not necessary to detail all of that within the episode, but it does compress the *apparent* timeline when it's not shown or mentioned, leading to all of these thoughts about how what happened doesn't really stand up logically... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 34 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said: Yes, it certainly wasn't stated if Angelina's remains were cremated or not. It doesn't make sense to me that they wouldn't, after the damage caused by the explosion. But, that's just my opinion and it wasn't necessary for the show to state that. But as far as Tubbs stepping up to take charge of the remains, funeral, etc.--yes, but most likely there was some legality/ red tape, etc. to carry out in order for him to do this, and I'm sure that took some time. Again, not necessary to detail all of that within the episode, but it does compress the *apparent* timeline when it's not shown or mentioned, leading to all of these thoughts about how what happened doesn't really stand up logically... Although I’m sure there was extensive damage & destruction to Angelina’s body, that doesn’t necessarily mean they will cremate it once an autopsy is completed. If there is someone to claim the body (family or friends), they will usually leave the decision to bury or cremate up to them...or if specifications were left in a will. Even with the explosion there probably still were some remains and or skeletal remains...but after an autopsy, if Tubbs claimed the remains, then I can see him wanting a regular burial. No open casket of course! Actually, I doubt there was that much red-tape so to speak, at all. There was no other family members or anyone else stepping forward wanting to claim the remains. If the ME is needing to figure out what to do with an unclaimed body, if no one else (family or friends) steps forward to legally claim the remains (and in Angelina’s case, no one would) then whoever is willing to claim them & pay for whatever burial can do that. As for when the funeral took place...that could have been weeks later, depending on how long the autopsy and investigation took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlemFan Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 Plus we have the character arc "resolved" that "they killed my lady AND my son", when, of course, the son was taken by Leguizamo's--I mean, Calderone's men . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, FlemFan said: Plus we have the character arc "resolved" that "they killed my lady AND my son", when, of course, the son was taken by Leguizamo's--I mean, Calderone's men . . . Yeah, that was one of the main story arcs that were left “hanging”...that writers and production team never returned to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 2, 2021 Report Share Posted July 2, 2021 The Calderone saga finally comes to an emotional end! I used to really like this episode...probably because it did give sort of a finale to the Calderone family, after new writers had previously abandoned that plot line. But, overtime this is one I actually don’t care for as much as I used to. Watching it more in-depth, it definitely could have been done much better. This was another Tubbs episode for sure, and as always PMT does a superb acting job! I also really like guest-star Maria McDonald in this one! If you recall, she originally was Tubbs' femme-fatale/killer girlfriend in first season's "The Great McCarthy". But, her character of Alicia Austin in this is sexy and intelligent. She was tough too...she fought Calderone right along with Tubbs--and even was the one who got wounded! Yeah, baby! I really wish her character could have stayed around for a while, for Tubbs...leave psycho, manipulative, toxic Valerie back in New York. I thought the plot idea was captivating and again we finally get some closure to the whole Calderone storyline. But, the overall ‘product’ and the way it was carried out just seems to fall somewhat flat. The main reason this one has problems of course is the new writers still never returned to Tubbs' baby son from Angelina...and Tubbs still thinks he's dead. However, the guest-cast in this one was pretty good...with actors such as Vincent D'Onofrio, Margaret Avery, and of course John Leguizamo as Orlando Calderone is the perfect ultimate nemesis of Tubbs (the son of the original Esteban Orlando Calderone played by Miguel Pinero). The music in this one was superb. The song We Touch by Loz Netto is "haunting", sexy, and captivating! One of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Tubbs and Alicia are riding horseback and enjoying each other while this fantastic song plays in the background! Of course I love the past Jan Hammer tunes reintegrated into this episode--from first season's "Calderone's Return" Pts. 1&2. The action and ending are pretty good...but some of it seemed “rushed” and the episode as a whole just seems somewhat disjointed. Again, it definitely should have given better & more accurate closure to the Calderone story arch. I originally gave this a 9...but I think a 7 is probably more accurate. I still like watching it, and it’s a good Tubbs-episode, but it’s maybe not as good as it could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerDurden389 Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 I like the episode, but I still wish we had found out what happened to Tubb's kid. Even if it was at the end of the very last episode. Like, maybe Orlando had a girlfriend/wife that he was with who were both raising the kid as their own. Then 2 years later, maybe Orlando's S.O. could've gone to Tubbs to let him know the truth. OR at the very least, Tubbs should've looked into it more himself, being a cop and all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, TylerDurden389 said: I like the episode, but I still wish we had found out what happened to Tubb's kid. Don’t we all...as I said in my newest review above, it’s one of the main problems with this episode, and an indication that new writers at the time were not giving the Calderone-saga an accurate or proper finale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) It was unfair on the fans and cruel on Tubb's that his beautiful baby boy never returned to him. Adding the baby to this episode, which should have been the season's finale would have been so memorable and exciting to watch. I think once season 4 begins he lets it slip to Sonny that his family are taking care of him, like a sister or his mother back in New York and he visits him on the weekend until he can properly take care of him back in Miami, a good reason for giving Tubbs a settled partner mid way through the season. But no as they never thought this out properly. Edited July 30, 2021 by RedDragon86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: It was unfair on the fans and cruel on Tubb's that his beautiful baby boy never returned to him. Adding the baby to this episode, which should have been the season's finale would have been so memorable and exciting to watch. I think once season 4 begins he lets it slip to Sonny that his family are taking care of him, like a sister or his mother back in New York and he visits him on the weekend until he can properly take care of him back in Miami, a good reason for giving Tubbs a settled partner mid way through the season. But no as they never thought this out properly. Abandoning open-ended storylines from previous episodes/seasons is never a good or progressive move. However, I don’t remember any episode after this one, that refers back to the Calderones or that whole story arc...nor do I remember Tubbs’ son being mentioned again. When the baby & Angelina were mentioned for the final times in this episode...Tubbs refers to both as dead. So, he doesn’t ever know that his son is still alive. What episode in Season 4 is there a mention of the baby being looked after by family of Tubbs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: Abandoning open-ended storylines from previous episodes/seasons is never a good or progressive move. However, I don’t remember any episode after this one, that refers back to the Calderones or that whole story arc...nor do I remember Tubbs’ son being mentioned again. When the baby & Angelina were mentioned for the final times in this episode...Tubbs refers to both as dead. So, he doesn’t ever know that his son is still alive. What episode in Season 4 is there a mention of the baby being looked after by family of Tubbs?? As for season 4 I was thinking hypothetically, like what really should happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 46 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: As for season 4 I was thinking hypothetically, like what really should happened. Gotcha! They definitely should have done a ‘final’ episode to conclude or give closure to the baby son story. But, new writers & producers must have thought or hoped we were too stupid to remember that there’s this baby “floating” around out there somewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 There are lots of promising things about this episode. I'm a Tubbs fan, so I like when the focus is on him. And Maria McDonald is back! Vice's most gorgeous woman. Too bad her Alicia never returned. (Interesting to see Vincent D'Onofrio here; this was made well after Full Metal Jacket was filmed, but because of Kubrick's typical long post-production schedule, this aired several months before Jacket was released that summer of '87.) Because Orlando Calderone owns the island's people, Tubbs and Alicia are constantly stymied attempting to leave. It's a good set-up. But despite all of this, it's kind of a sleepy episode. It's worth watching for the Tubbs spotlight and McDonald's beauty, but a Calderone tale without Miguel Pinero just ain't the real thing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted September 17, 2021 Report Share Posted September 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said: And Maria McDonald is back! Vice's most gorgeous woman. I concur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 Early on Tubb's explains to the captain that they have a killer on the Island but straight after he enjoys a montage with his girlfriend, riding on a horse and observing the scenery? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said: Early on Tubb's explains to the captain that they have a killer on the Island but straight after he enjoys a montage with his girlfriend, riding on a horse and observing the scenery? That's the power of Maria McDonald! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) "I killed their father" No you didn't Rico, Sonny did. They couldn't even get that right. Terribly written episode. Edited October 26, 2021 by RedDragon86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 17 hours ago, RedDragon86 said: No you didn't Rico, Sonny did. My wife rewatched Sons and Lovers with me recently. She asked if the story ever resolved. I held all negative comments, and told her I would let her know when I get to that episode. When she watched The Afternoon Plane with me, I said those exact words (quoted above) out loud to her during that scene. She was glad to see “Vanessa” again though. My wife thinks she is the prettiest of all the MV ladies, and I can’t disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dadrian said: My wife rewatched Sons and Lovers with me recently. She asked if the story ever resolved. I held all negative comments, and told her I would let her know when I get to that episode. When she watched The Afternoon Plane with me, I said those exact words (quoted above) out loud to her during that scene. She was glad to see “Vanessa” again though. My wife thinks she is the prettiest of all the MV ladies, and I can’t disagree. I think he says it again as well. That woman who was trying to be Pam Grier says "and you murdered him" Rico replies "yes" I don't understand why David Jackson didn't look over both scripts or even sat down and watched "Calderone's Demise" and "Sons and Lovers" before writing the episode, because he clearly didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) Sonny may have ultimately pulled the trigger...but Tubbs was the one who was involved with Angelina, and he & his brother had been after & tracking down Calderone in NY, even before Crockett was in Miami. Therefore Tubbs was more of a threat to the family. They grabbed Sonny first in “Demise”...but I think that was mainly to bring Tubbs out in the open to rescue Sonny & then they could kill Rico (obviously Crockett too, but Tubbs was the main target). Basically I think the Calderone family and/or organization blamed Tubbs the most for bringing their empire down & “corrupting” Angelina (in their eyes). But, both Tubbs & Crockett were responsible for taking Calderone out. Edited October 26, 2021 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) It's still written wrong, David Jackson didn't look into this properly. Rico should have said to Alicia "my partner and me killed Calderone, he was a major drug dealer". "He murdered my brother" Edited October 26, 2021 by RedDragon86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted October 26, 2021 Report Share Posted October 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: It's still written wrong, David Jackson didn't look into this properly. Rico should have said to Alicia "my partner and me killed Calderone, he was a major drug dealer". "He murdered my brother" Agreed. The episode was poorly written with some dialogue, as well as it just seemed “forced” & rushed. The plot in theory was good...and the episode itself could have been awesome (especially if it had included Crockett, too) but it just was poorly carried out, and fell flat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggie Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 I heard a rumor that Tubbs son was eventually found & raised by Mario Fuente from season 2. They ended up on some island but no one knows where. That part is unresolved. Anyway, I haven’t watched this episode in years but I remember thinking it was a dud. A shootout on an island just didn’t work for me. I wanted a more elaborate plot I guess. The only thing I remember was the scene when Tubbs gets the rifle and we get a classic Vice ominous note! I’ll have to watch this again. I just expected more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakespyder Posted December 7, 2021 Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) I think most of us hoped for more as a resolution of the Calderone arch. Especially after the awesome Sons and Lovers finale. You're right to point out Jan's cue. He was doing his best to give the episode some weight. On Jan Hammer's Complete MV collection his voodoo track has some of that sound towards the end. Edited December 7, 2021 by fakespyder 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Beau Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 12/7/2021 at 5:41 AM, fakespyder said: I think most of us hoped for more as a resolution of the Calderone arch. Especially after the awesome Sons and Lovers finale. You're right to point out Jan's cue. He was doing his best to give the episode some weight. On Jan Hammer's Complete MV collection his voodoo track has some of that sound towards the end. Jan’s efforts definitely improved this episode and I’m thankful to him for that. There were a lot of call backs to previous themes. With that said, I think Jan should of included the Calderone theme used during the Calderone death in Season 1. I actually took the time to re-edit the theme into the Orlando death scene, I think it works pretty well. IMG_8565.MOV 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted August 23, 2022 Report Share Posted August 23, 2022 Help: Okay who can tell me exactly what is implied by Sally Cordoba’s past concerning Calderone? I usually just overlook it because she is a terrible actress in this role, but tonight I’m ready to figure it out. She says she “owed him” for getting her out of New York, and Rico says “and you paid the debt”. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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