RedDragon86 Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 Watched this again last night. This episode belongs in season 1. It definitely has the vibe of the first season, the same sort of atmosphere as "Home Invaders" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 54 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said: Watched this again last night. This episode belongs in season 1. It definitely has the vibe of the first season, the same sort of atmosphere as "Home Invaders" I think the season 3 wardrobe fits it way better though. Certainly the content is season 1 worthy in darkness and substance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said: Watched this again last night. This episode belongs in season 1. It definitely has the vibe of the first season, the same sort of atmosphere as "Home Invaders" Perhaps, but “Shadow” is much better done...plot, acting, suspense, and of course what truly ‘makes’ this episode is that it was based off a real-life case in the Miami area several years before! “Home Invaders” was good but it was 1st season—and although 1st season got the show off the proverbial ground, they were still figuring out exactly how to proceed with the show, and ironing out all the wrinkles. By 2nd season things were ‘rolling’! “Home Invaders” didn’t have Tubbs, either. I like both episodes, but between the two “Shadow” is much better, in my opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Vigilante Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 Remember seeing this one as a kid and it freaked me out. Just watched again recently and it still holds up. DJ gives a hell of a performance! I never really considered the idea that the whole thing could be Crockett dreaming, like some have speculated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr. Vigilante said: Remember seeing this one as a kid and it freaked me out. Just watched again recently and it still holds up. DJ gives a hell of a performance! I never really considered the idea that the whole thing could be Crockett dreaming, like some have speculated. I saw this when it originally aired as a kid, too! It was Halloween and I was spending the night at a friend's house, and it was storming, no-less! That made this episode that much freakier to watch, LOL! It wasn't until I was an adult and more into trivia for MV, that I found out this episode was based on a real-life case...if I'd of known that as a kid while originally watching this, I'd of probably peed my pants! Totally creepy and psychologically terrifying episode...plot and the acting performances are superb! This definitely still "holds up" today, as one of the scariest episodes, as well as one of the best acted, in my opinion! I've not heard that some think this was Crockett dreaming ...definitely not, it was about him almost losing his mind (like the original detective) trying to catch "fish-mouth" and figure out his next move. The only "dreaming" part was when Crockett had the nightmare--and the wild voodoo-looking witch doctor-figure popped up over the wall. Edited December 28, 2019 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Vigilante Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 I already had a phobia as a kid of someone breaking into our house....needless to say, this episode DID NOT help! Might have been an interesting scenario to revisit in a later season. Strange break-ins start happening resembling this case. OCB discovers Gilmore was released from the institution making the episode more of a "who-done-it?" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted December 28, 2019 Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr. Vigilante said: I already had a phobia as a kid of someone breaking into our house....needless to say, this episode DID NOT help! Might have been an interesting scenario to revisit in a later season. Strange break-ins start happening resembling this case. OCB discovers Gilmore was released from the institution making the episode more of a "who-done-it?" Yeah, while it was storming and my friend and I were watching, I kept glancing out their big family room windows every time the lightning flashed...I remember thinking if I see “fish-mouth” in the window the next time the lightning flashes I’ll probably pass out and he’d kill both of us, lol! I love your idea of what could have been a possible sequel episode...that would have been awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 19 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Perhaps, but “Shadow” is much better done...plot, acting, suspense, and of course what truly ‘makes’ this episode is that it was based off a real-life case in the Miami area several years before! “Home Invaders” was good but it was 1st season—and although 1st season got the show off the proverbial ground, they were still figuring out exactly how to proceed with the show, and ironing out all the wrinkles. By 2nd season things were ‘rolling’! “Home Invaders” didn’t have Tubbs, either. I like both episodes, but between the two “Shadow” is much better, in my opinion. That's interesting, what real life case was it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 Miami Vice wiki says it was inspired by Richard Chase. https://miamivice.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_in_the_Dark https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chase 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 The scriptwriter was also the co-creator of Crime Story according to Sanders' book on Miami Vice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said: That's interesting, what real life case was it? 5 hours ago, Bren10 said: Miami Vice wiki says it was inspired by Richard Chase. https://miamivice.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_in_the_Dark https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chase Interesting...I thought it had been based on a real-life case from the Miami area...but if Richard Chase was known as the “Vampire of Sacramento”, that would be California I’d think. But, either way the idea was superb for an episode of MV, and it was superbly done! I also read some of the other info tid-bits on the fandom link above...one of them being that the scene of Castillo confronting Sonny in the cafe, after he’d been up all night, might be part of some ‘dream sequence’ & didn’t really happen. That makes no sense, and I disagree with that! Don’t know where they came up with that? That scene does not come across as a supposed dream, and it was very ‘real’...as Sonny was starting to get too psychologically caught up with the case, like Gilmore had before him—and Castillo (and the rest of the OCB) were concerned he was losing touch with reality. Another info statement I don’t agree with said that Sonny (because he’d been so emotionally shattered) had to possibly reassure ‘himself’ by screaming “I’m a cop, I’m a cop!” when the final victim can’t tell who’s the attacker & who’s not, and she’s freaking out. Although Crockett had been emotionally & psychologically exhausted, I don’t see him yelling “I’m a cop!” at the woman, a realization for himself...I think it was just the natural response, to try and calm the lady and let her know he wasn’t “fish-mouth” and/or the attacker, he was a cop there to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Vigilante Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Something else I noticed while watching this again recently was how much Timothy Carhart resembles Bradley Cooper. Maybe it's the eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebax Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 The scariest ep of MV so far!! It kept me in front of the screen without blinking the entire hour. Amazing. DJ (on the edge of insanity) and PMT (trying not to tell his partner that he was loosing it) did a great performance. And Jan Hammer became a protagonist again after a couple of episodes where he was not so important. Nice tunes. IMO, the scene in the coffe shop with Castillo, was part of the dream. 9/10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Sebax said: The scariest ep of MV so far!! It kept me in front of the screen without blinking the entire hour. Amazing. DJ (on the edge of insanity) and PMT (trying not to tell his partner that he was loosing it) did a great performance. And Jan Hammer became a protagonist again after a couple of episodes where he was not so important. Nice tunes. IMO, the scene in the coffe shop with Castillo, was part of the dream. 9/10 Definitely one of the more freaky & bone-chilling episodes! Nice review, and definitely amazing performances by all. But, I don’t think there’s any “dream sequence” in this episode (other than the 1 quick nightmare Crockett has about the monster-thing popping up over the wall at him). Perhaps old original script ideas would say differently—but the coffee shop scene with Castillo did not come across as a “dream”...that was Castillo truly concerned about Sonny, and worried he was losing his mind as Gilmore had before him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDragon86 Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 On 8/18/2019 at 1:28 AM, Detective_Crockett said: One of my all time favourites. Every episode of Season 3 from Stone's War and forward at the moment has been truly solid. I go crazy myself trying to understand the Shadow's motives. I love anything to do with psychological and mental horror. I still need to get around to watching Mann's Manhunter as I've heard this one is clearly inspired by it. Gilmore was a nut, glad Crockett didn't go fully crazy like him. Superb acting by DJ in this episode. Also, The Shadow looks like Jan Hammer I hope you get round to watching Manhunter because imo its the greatest serial killer film. The one's like Se7en and Silence of the Lambs which are good but over the top and unrealistic. The performances in Manhunter are just sublime. What I like the most about the film is there are no over the top performances and no unnecessary gore shown, yet it is a nightmarish voyeuristic look at the FBI agent going after his prey by looking inside himself for answers. I must see 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 17 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Definitely one of the more freaky & bone-chilling episodes! Nice review, and definitely amazing performances by all. But, I don’t think there’s any “dream sequence” in this episode (other than the 1 quick nightmare Crockett has about the monster-thing popping up over the wall at him). Perhaps old original script ideas would say differently—but the coffee shop scene with Castillo did not come across as a “dream”...that was Castillo truly concerned about Sonny, and worried he was losing his mind as Gilmore had before him. For those who care about such things...this episode was originally called "Spencer" and the cop was named Grant in the draft script I have. The scene with just Crockett and Castillo was originally put in as a Cuban restaurant, not a coffee shop. And it clearly wasn't a dream. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 14 hours ago, Robbie C. said: For those who care about such things...this episode was originally called "Spencer" and the cop was named Grant in the draft script I have. The scene with just Crockett and Castillo was originally put in as a Cuban restaurant, not a coffee shop. And it clearly wasn't a dream. Interesting...cool info! Do we know why the episode was originally called “Spencer”—was that the name of ‘Shadow’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said: Interesting...cool info! Do we know why the episode was originally called “Spencer”—was that the name of ‘Shadow’? That would be my assumption, but the shadow is never explicitly named in the script. He's always just "Figure." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRemington Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I really love this episode. Everything is A+/Four Stars/Aces. This one plays much like a thriller movie. I wish they would have made this a two hour episode, I wish it played longer. Whenever I watch it, I don’t want it to end. I’ll usually rewind and rewatch parts to stretch it out. It’s so different than anything previous to it. Even the scenes with seeing Castillo in the parking lot and Castillo meeting Crockett at that diner.. They just feel WAY different than regular Vice. Crockett putting the flour on his face and becoming more in-tune with the Shadow... Wow, this is really something else! Of course I also really love Jan Hammer’s music, very creepy with the guitar fret squeaks and the DX7 tubular bells. I know this has been debated before, but there really is no clear point we know isn’t dream. We know The Shadow being questioned at the end is a dream as that’s when Crockett wakes up... But when did he start dreaming? Some people have very strong ideas/opinions, but I think with this episode it’s all up to the viewer’s interpretation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, AndrewRemington said: I really love this episode. Everything is A+/Four Stars/Aces. This one plays much like a thriller movie. I wish they would have made this a two hour episode, I wish it played longer. Whenever I watch it, I don’t want it to end. I’ll usually rewind and rewatch parts to stretch it out. It’s so different than anything previous to it. Even the scenes with seeing Castillo in the parking lot and Castillo meeting Crockett at that diner.. They just feel WAY different than regular Vice. Crockett putting the flour on his face and becoming more in-tune with the Shadow... Wow, this is really something else! Of course I also really love Jan Hammer’s music, very creepy with the guitar fret squeaks and the DX7 tubular bells. I know this has been debated before, but there really is no clear point we know isn’t dream. We know The Shadow being questioned at the end is a dream as that’s when Crockett wakes up... But when did he start dreaming? Some people have very strong ideas/opinions, but I think with this episode it’s all up to the viewer’s interpretation. This is what I posted recently regarding some “wallpaper” pics posted about this episode: (Amazing, creepy, chilling, yet captivating & fascinating episode...remember watching this one when it originally aired—on Halloween night, no less! I was spending the night at a friend’s house and in the “stereotypical” fashion it was storming outside. Later, after we tried to go to bed & the lightning would flash I’d look out their big family room window...and I kept thinking, if I see fish-mouth with flour all over his face looking in at us I will die of heart failure right there in my sleeping bag! What truly makes this episode frightening, however, is that it’s based on a true story from the Miami area several years before! ) As for “dreams” in the episode...from what I’ve read from other members regarding the actual scripts, the meeting scenes with Crockett & Castillo were not dreams—they were reality in the episode...if you can even include the idea of “reality” with this one , as I think the whole thing is supposed to be way different than the MV-norm. It was a “nightmarish” case & situation, and not the usual run-of-the-mill drug deal or prostitute bust. Therefore, the whole “style” is like one long, bizarre nightmare (and masterfully & effectively done )...and subsequently some read more into it than what actually was. The only actual dream or nightmare I can think of in the episode was when Sonny fell asleep at his desk & dreamed he was out in the neighborhood searching, and “Shadow”/Fish-Mouth jumped over a wall at him. Edited July 3, 2020 by ViceFanMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerDurden389 Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Definitely top 5 season 3 episode for me. I've stated that I prefer the latter half of season 3, as the tone is more familiar to the first 2 seasons, but this, "Irish Eyes", and El Viejo" get a gold star from me. All 10/10 episodes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren10 Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 Since it's Halloween 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IA-SteveB Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) What is the significance of the intruder opening and closing his mouth? Was it supposed to be reminiscent of a fish out of water or something? Maybe I missed it reading through this thread. Edited March 23, 2021 by IA-SteveB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I thought it was just a way for the writer/director to have the actor show that the character was the victim of some type of mental disorder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I think he was just lip syncing the little sound Jan Hammer makes when he does it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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