Spyder

when did MV jump the shark for you?

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Dadrian

Although 4 has a couple of nearly unwatchable episodes, the complete absence of Jan Hammer, lots of ridiculous costumes, and tangent storylines that lead to the demise of the show make 5 a little inferior between the two, for me. Although,  I think the finale is great! I would watch it more, but I always have to follow it with the pilot to keep from being sad, and I rarely have 3.5 consecutive hours available for watching MV. Heck, I can barely squeeze 2 hours in for working on the MV music I cover! :) 

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Boca Raton

I love Jan Hammer. 

However, I have no problem going with Tim Truman’s more dark score.

Jan Hammer’s music could have worked in season 5...but Tim’s seems to fit better IMO.

 

 

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Edited by Boca Raton

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Dadrian

I agree! S5 would not not work with Jan’s feel. It would have been interesting to see how much of a chameleon he could have been in that direction, though. Think about his amazing score for “Death and the Lady”. 

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ComplimentsofMrCalderone
13 hours ago, SwissTubbs said:

The Change of the dynamics between Crocket/Tubbs were a bad idea. And i hate that tubbs almost doesnt feel like a main character anymore.

^^^ So much THIS!!! ^^^

 

And good post entirely.

 

My teenage son is watching Miami Vice for the first time. We just finished Season One... but I put it out there we're pretty much going to avoid Season 4 and 5.  (I don't want to turn him off to the whole experience).  Now I'll talk about the Season 3 changes when we're completed with 2, but Season 3 will still be required viewing. :thumbsup:

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Boca Raton

Death and the Lady is my fav episode of the entire series- weird the fact that I dislike season 4 (dislike may be a strong word)...

as for your son avoiding Season 4&5 I think it’s a mistake.

I’m 35 and I think 4&5 can appeal to younger people more...albeit 5 has ridiculous costumes...thank god Nirvana came and made that shit obsolete 

 

Edited by Boca Raton

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ComplimentsofMrCalderone
13 minutes ago, Boca Raton said:

Death and the Lady is my fav episode of the entire series- weird the fact that I dislike season 4 (dislike may be a strong word)...

as for your son avoiding Season 4&5 I think it’s a mistake.

I’m 35 and I think 4&5 can appeal to younger people more...albeit 5 has ridiculous costumes...thank god Nirvana came and made that shit obsolete 

 

Ridiculous costumes? What ridiculous costumes???

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:D

I swear that outfit PMT is wearing reminds me of those optical illusion books that if you stare long enough you see 3D images! :p

 

I might cherry pick an episode here or there, but I don't see either season 4 or 5 in its entirety appealing to him... and most (other than diehard MV fans.)

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summer84

For me both season 4 and 5 are weak seasons. But I've always preferred S4 a bit more despite of some ridiculous episodes. The Vice squad were still a team and that fall apart in the last season. DJ being absent or appearing only without the other castmembers. As been said before the thrill and excitement and energy on the show and from the actors was gone. I couldn't at all get into the very darker tone of S5. 

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Edited by summer84

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vicegirl85
12 hours ago, Boca Raton said:

Does everyone agree that 5 is better than 4?

i keep hearing 5 is the worst and IMO it’s really not that bad...

Sadly my re-watching of the series has stalled; too much other stuff going on in RL.  Speaking only from memory of watching 5 during the original run:

I thought the Burnett arc was very well-done, and fit perfectly with the development of Crockett as a character.  He always talked about the danger of forgetting who really was while working undercover; he watched other undercover cops get sucked into their cover life over the course of the series; and finally it happened to him.  If some of the amnesia premise was weak, there is an element of reality to it because of the giant ethical violation he committed when he killed Hackman, and the psychological injury he suffered as a result.

I remember being disappointed in the storylines once the Burnett arc was completed.  There was a marginal attempt to show that Crockett was investigated and that he received counseling, although I can't believe that in RL he would ever have been allowed to work undercover again.  However, the burnout suffered by Tubbs as well as Crockett, and the destructive effects of undercover life on Switek were well-portrayed, IMO.  Gina and Trudy were pushed into the background more than ever, which was sad.  And Castillo seemed almost an impotent force for his team.

I disliked Freefall because to me it felt like a downer ending to the series.  But it was a great portrayal of the burnout experienced by C&T, as well as the inevitable result of the conflicting agendas of the vice squad and the other (federal) government agencies they were supposed to be working with.  Very cynical and nihilistic, and as I said basically inevitable considering the overall path of the series and the characters' experiences.

For me, MV had good episodes throughout the series run, but with the revolving door of writers, directors, and producers, it lost its way and had a generally downward spiral from Season 4 to the end.  Unlike a lot of people here, I really liked Season 3 in general. 

     

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Boca Raton

From what I’ve read 3 endings were filmed:

Tubbs dies

Tubbs & Crockett both die

Tubbs & Crockett both live (obviously this is what we see)

it would be nice to see these as bonus features in the BluRay but all we got was zilch 

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ComplimentsofMrCalderone
1 hour ago, Boca Raton said:

From what I’ve read 3 endings were filmed:

Tubbs dies

Tubbs & Crockett both die

Tubbs & Crockett both live (obviously this is what we see)

it would be nice to see these as bonus features in the BluRay but all we got was zilch 

Wow. 3 endings filmed? I had no idea!

 

Was this reported in a magazine or something?

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vicegirl85

It was reported in various print outlets at the time.  I don't recall seeing anything definitive from the studio or network, NBC.  And no one has ever seen the alternate endings, as far as I know, so if they were filmed, they may have ended up being trashed when the existing ending was chosen. 

Cynically, I wonder if the story of the 3 endings was a rumor put out to puff up some publicity as the series was winding down. 

Perhaps someone here has inside knowledge :).

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summer84

It's also been discussed in this thread and Coop posted articles about it at the end of the page. 

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Tom

The story with the 3 endings is true and was also confirmed in a documentary a few years ago. In 1989 hardly any series was concluded with a final episode that portrayed the fate of main characters but rather with a normal episode that just happened to be the last. Thus NBC experimented and decided shortly before airing to let C&T live mainly because they did not want to disappoint fan base and a spinoff was planned (Leap of Faith!) that involved occasional show ups of C&T. 

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Dadrian

I don’t think there’s ever been anyone on earth that could’ve redeemed the Leap of Faith spinoff with occasional show ups. :) 

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mirrorimageegamirorrim

This is an interesting question and I suppose the answer you give depends on how you define "jump the shark".  If you think of it as a turning point after which a show becomes permanently unwatchable then I would say that Miami Vice never fully jumped the shark.  If you think of it as a turning point after which the standard (or vibe, feel, etc.) of earlier seasons is never attained again then I would say this does apply.  It occurred after season 2 ended and Michael Mann handed over the reins to the Dick.  There was a definite decline after this, starting in season 3 and culminating in season 4, which is, without doubt, the series nadir (I've been waiting to use that word for a couple of years and I realized that now is the moment. ;)).  I've stated before in some other thread, I don't remember where, that in seasons 3 and 4 the show felt like Wolf had simply commandeered the characters and locations we all knew and loved so much and haphazardly dropped them into his own personal police drama.  He had no respect for what made the show great.  He and NBC used these characters and locations to exploit the audience for ratings.  Thankfully, a valiant effort was made in season 5 to recover some of the vibe of seasons 1 and 2 and it was somewhat successful.  Season 5, if you can get past the clothing, is actually quite good.  It's head and shoulders above 3 and 4 but still not nearly as good as 1 and 2.  I rank the seasons from best to worst 2, 1, 5, 3, 4, with 3 only slightly surpassing 4 for the 4th place spot.               

Edited by mirrorimageegamirorrim

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Boca Raton
49 minutes ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

This is an interesting question and I suppose the answer you give depends on how you define "jump the shark".  If you think of it as a turning point after which a show become permanently unwatchable then I would say that Miami Vice never fully jumped the shark.  If you think of it as turning point after which the standard (or vibe, feel, etc.) of earlier seasons is never attained again then I would say this does apply.  It occurred after season 2 ended and Michael Mann handed over the reigns to the Dick.  There was a definite decline after this, starting in season 3 and culminating in season 4, which is, without doubt, the series nadir (I've been waiting to use that word for a couple of years and I realized that now is the moment. ;)).  I've stated before in some other thread, I don't remember where, that in seasons 3 and 4 the show felt like Wolf had simply commandeered the characters and locations we all knew and loved so much and haphazardly dropped them into his own personal police drama.  He had no respect for what made the show great.  He and NBC used these characters and locations to exploit the audience for ratings.  Thankfully, a valiant effort was made in season 5 to recover some of the vibe of seasons 1 and 2 and it was somewhat successful.  Season 5, if you can get past the clothing, is actually quite good.  It's head and shoulders above 3 and 4 but still not nearly as good as 1 and 2.  I rank the seasons from best to worst 2, 1, 5, 3, 4, with 3 only slightly surpassing 4 for the 4th place spot.               

I can’t agree more! The clothes made S5 look/feel worse than it was.

The Walking Dead was a great show but the new showrunner obviously milked it for the money & it’s art vs commerce.

They are bleeding it dry until it’s a worthless shell to be ridiculed.

Season 4 of Vice was too insane 

 

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