Episode 8 - The Great McCarthy

[Tom]

This real office location (Gifford´s office) is still unsolved. All key clues summarized on this picture below:

• unique perpendicular wall pattern (four corners like an accordion in a row - VVVV) left of the windows (with good likelihood that this pattern is also visible on the facade outside) and another 4 (dead as no light comes in?) slim windows right of it.
• 4 slim windows that go down to the floor - very unique especially combined with the other 4 corners/windows mentioned above 
• there is quite heavy car traffic (>5 cars in a few seconds with slow to medium speed) outside where the arrow indicates
• there seems to be an inner yard or driveway separated from the car traffic with no street traffic at all
• due to modern architecture involved (glass block wall, slim windows, ...) this location is in w building that was quite new at time of filming (built early 80s).

 

Unfortunately, there is no obvious clue for the general area derived from the clues or the other locations in that episode (mainly downtown and Key Biscayne). 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

I had a hunch where this exclusive clothes store of Vanessa could have been. Lincoln Road Mall was not existent in current form in 1984. Where else could they have shopped back then?

The Miami Design District between 36 and 41 Street around 1st and 2nd Ave was used a few times in VICE and has/had many art galleries, modern shops and boutiques, also back in 1984/85. They filmed there for Dutch Oven (Fire and Ice disco), and for Evan (Iggy Pop´s SM studio at 87 NE 40 Street that was an Antiquities DuFutur shop in real life, building was razed years ago, this was a nice boutique before it was destroyed). So I checked and found several corners where the Vanessa´s shop could have been located. It was a two story shop with a corner entrance and long and broad windows on the second floor and a very green corner vis a vis and a high building next to it.

• SW corner of 39th/2nd Ave: looks good building-wise, but the building was built long after VICE (but is a Versace store now and otherwise a good match) and there was no green corner vis a vis. 
• NW corner of 38th/1st Ave: looks best as there was a green corner vis a vis, but next to it is/was the Florida State Road, no high building close to it (as we see next to Vanessa on the stairs).

Also, I checked for unknown locations in One way ticket (art gallery) and Miami Squeeze (art cafe) and found one candidate for each -but that was a wash so far as well, as the front street background (gallery) and the building corner with the backyard (art cafe) are no match. 

P.S. I believe that Vanessa´s shop and Gifford´s office were close to each other, maybe even the same location or within the same building. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

The park scene Crockett, Castillo and Tubbs is still unsolved, but looks like Crandon Park, the part south of the Tennis stadium, east of Crandon Bvd.

CGlide suspected on his website that this was in Bill Baggs Park on Key BIscayne. It doubt that, as there is no pond or river with a fitting bridge in that park. And we clearly see a wooden bridge over a pond or river that runs enough to produce a loud and clear permanent water pouring noise throughout the whole scene. Together with the clearing and the opening with a street that is seen at the end of that scene there are two potential fits on Key Biscayne and both are in Crandon Park where there several ponds and waterways.

1. fit (my preference) is the northern one, where there is a small bridge now. On the 86 aerial it could fit but there is too much vegetation above to see the bridge (it was a zig-zag shaped wooden bridge and not a straight one in the scene) which fits the overgrown vegetation in the scene but makes it impossible to verify. Thus, the wooden house or construction behind Crockett cannot be seen on historic aerial either. And: there is a small building on the map just behind the bridge that is hardly to be seen on the aerial but is still there. The wooden construction behind Crockett has been probably removed.

2. fit is the southern one, but less likely as there is no real bridge and the distance between the water crossing and the clearing at the end of the scene is much too long here.

I suspect strongly the first, as it fits well in all dimensions on the current Google view, plus it is close to Crandon Bvd and would therefore have been a logical choice for a production team to film such a hidden park scene without a long haul of equipment through the park.

Bottom line: 99% sure that is was most likely Crandon Park (very last picture shows exactly where the scene was most likely filmed and everything seems to fit), not Bill Baggs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tom

[Matt5]

Found this online from Bill Baggs State Park, Key Biscayne.

[Tom]

Of course there are wooden walkways in Bill Baggs. But there is not a single potential spot, i.e. there are no rivers/bridges and a clearing next to it like we see in this episode. C&T&C are on a small wooden bridge over a slow running waterway. Also logistic-wise there is no good argument for Bill Baggs.

[Tom]

VANESSA´s HOUSE AT THE END, VERIFICATION SUMMARY + PICTURE PROOF

20 HARBOR POINT, KEY BISCAYNE

As @C Glide has still "location not verified" on this location website and the only proof discussed was hidden in the Group effort thread, I hereby summarize all proof& pics we have, as they are all scattered, the original house was destroyed&rebuilt completely new and the vintage proof pictures might get lost over the years. 

Thanks to some great old realtor photos (https://photoplan.planomatic.com/2878) we are able to prove that location due to its unique driveway tiles and the significant entrance. The long perpendicular wall where Tubbs pressed the doorbell was massively shortened before the house was torn down. In the episode that wall is 2-3m long behind Tubbs. On the realtor pic only 1 foot width was left.

The only mystery that remains: the lights behind Crockett&the police cars in the background belong clearly to a house vis a vis (where 22 Harbor Point is now), but on 80+86 aerial there is an empty lot. Maybe there was a house built between 80 and 84 and razed before 86?

The McCarthy house next door at 28 Harbor Point remains unchanged.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

Maybe I have found Gifford´s office? A strong suspect is the neighbor of Banco Libre in Freefall (4400 Biscayne Bvd), 4500 Biscayne Bvd.

What matches:

• the 4 slim long windows
• the NE corner of the location matches with the driveway and the street behind it we see through the windows in the episode. There is a small island vaguely visible between both directions as the cars are passing by.
• it´s close to design district which is a suspect for Vanessa´s luxury shop
• this office building was built in 1973 and looked the same in 1986, it was strongly renovated in 2006
• based on memory of a crew member this location was somewhere at the northern part of Biscayne Bvd
• building slightly elevated from traffic street level visible behind

What does not fully match:

the windows on the NE corner and on the inside picture do not match fully in distance/distance to the ground and width. But this could have been changed during renovation in 2006.

What I learnt in location hunting: too many coincidences mean something and 4 slim long windows are very rare.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

To complete my suspect gallery: 

here is where I think Vanessa´s luxury shop was: 102 NE 39 Street, what is now the Givenchy shop

The building matches in size, shape and had a corner full with vegetation vis a vis.

This is the only corner in whole Design district that fits and together with the Gifford office suspect a few blocks away they make a good couple of suspects

[Dadrian]

On 7/16/2020 at 7:51 AM, Dadrian said:

@Tom Could Gifford’s office be a part of Vanessa’s house? Or another house on/near W. Matheson Dr.?

 

26 minutes ago, Tom said:

Maybe I have found Gifford´s office?

Ahem...

Edit: oops I read the post wrong    

Edited December 14, 2020 by Dadrian

[Tom]

Gerade eben schrieb Dadrian:

 

Ahem...

3 ain´t the same as 4 (windows), Dadrian! Next week we´re gonna work on that in algebra class 

[Dadrian]

Just now, Tom said:

3 ain´t the same as 4 (windows), Dadrian! Next week we´re gonna work on that in algebra class 

Yeah read the post wrong. Great work, as always, My Friend! All looks good to me so far!

[Matt5]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

To complete my suspect gallery: 

here is where I think Vanessa´s luxury shop was: 102 NE 39 Street, what is now the Givenchy shop

The building matches in size, shape and had a corner full with vegetation vis a vis.

This is the only corner in whole Design district that fits and together with the Gifford office suspect a few blocks away they make a good couple of suspects

Have you ruled out Bal Harbor Tom ?

Reminds me of BH. It’s just a hunch but over the years I’ve come to trust them (even Crockett said that   )

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Matt5

[Tom]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Matt5:

Have you ruled out Bal Harbor Tom ?

Reminds me of BH. It’s just a hunch but over the years I’ve come to trust them (even Crockett said that   )

 

 

Yes, impossible. I ruled it out. BH is basically a big mall. The only connection is exclusive shops. First, there is no corner shop possible with green vegetation vis a vis. The whole look of the scene says downtown. Second, location logistics wise it does not make sense. There is nothing else around up in BH.

If you watch the location distribution and the look of the scene, MDD makes perfect sense for both locations (shop and Gifford).

 

[Tom]

THE NIGHT BOAT EXAMINATION

still marked as unknown location on CGlides website, but also filmed at the Nixon Winter home, 485 W. Matheson Drive, KB

The lights, the distance and the shape of the shoreline in the background matches (left: Coconut Grove, right: Rickenbacker Causeway), as does the small concrete seam with grass behind at the water´s edge in front of the house.

Also the boat scenes filmed at daylight when Crockett&Tubbs try to impress McCarthy were fimed on the same spot, only a few meters away, as can be seen by the small wooden seam after the concrete one to offer a safer edge for boats.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tom

[Dadrian]

@Tom I enjoy your MV work way more than mine  

[Tom]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

@Tom I enjoy your MV work way more than mine  

Thanks. I also updated the new location in Crandon Park further up in this thread with better pictures of the exact location.

I think this episode is complete now with locations, at least in my opinion as I can´t come up with any better analytics.

[daytona365]

17 hours ago, Tom said:

Maybe I have found Gifford´s office? A strong suspect is the neighbor of Banco Libre in Freefall (4400 Biscayne Bvd), 4500 Biscayne Bvd.

What matches:

• the 4 slim long windows
• the NW corner of the location matches with the driveway and the street behind it we see through the windows in the episode. There is a small island vaguely visible between both directions as the cars are passing by.
• it´s close to design district which is a suspect for Vanessa´s luxury shop
• this office building was built in 1973 and looked the same in 1986, it was strongly renovated in 2006
• based on memory of a crew member this location was somewhere at the northern part of Biscayne Bvd

What does not fully match:

the windows on the NE corner and on the inside picture do not match fully in distance/distance to the ground and width. But this could have been changed during renovation in 2006.

What I learnt in location hunting: too many coincidences mean something and 4 slim long windows are very rare.

It's indeed a possibility, but I don't think there is enough conclusive evidence besides the four window pattern on one side of the building. A few thoughts on this from my side:

• the traffic visible in the third window from from the left is a perpendicular direction to the street/driveway in front of the windows, hence the cars are either on Biscayne Blvd or N Federal Hwy, so this would have to be either the SW or NE corner of the building. On the North and South sides of the building however, there is now an even wider distance between the windows. The sets of four narrow windows are only facing Biscayne Blvd.
   
• there is a big concrete pillar on the corner that extends out enough to fully block the view through the fourth window from this angle. Changing this to the current appearance of the building would have meant moving out the walls to be almost flush with this pillar, which I can't really imagine having been done.
  
   
• I would think that the zig-zag shape of the wall will have been reflected also on the outside of the building. Again here, the remodelling would have had to be massive.
   
• what I do like about this building is that it's slightly elevated above street level, which matches the scene

Edited December 15, 2020 by daytona365

[daytona365]

17 hours ago, Tom said:

To complete my suspect gallery: 

here is where I think Vanessa´s luxury shop was: 102 NE 39 Street, what is now the Givenchy shop

The building matches in size, shape and had a corner full with vegetation vis a vis.

This is the only corner in whole Design district that fits and together with the Gifford office suspect a few blocks away they make a good couple of suspects

This one is very convincing, I think even more than the Gifford place

[Tom]

Am 15.12.2020 um 11:50 schrieb daytona365:

It's indeed a possibility, but I don't think there is enough conclusive evidence besides the four window pattern on one side of the building. A few thoughts on this from my side:

• the traffic visible in the third window from from the left is a perpendicular direction to the street/driveway in front of the windows, hence the cars are either on Biscayne Blvd or N Federal Hwy, so this would have to be either the SW or NE corner of the building. On the North and South sides of the building however, there is now an even wider distance between the windows. The sets of four narrow windows are only facing Biscayne Blvd.
   
• there is a big concrete pillar on the corner that extends out enough to fully block the view through the fourth window from this angle. Changing this to the current appearance of the building would have meant moving out the walls to be almost flush with this pillar, which I can't really imagine having been done.
  
   
• I would think that the zig-zag shape of the wall will have been reflected also on the outside of the building. Again here, the remodelling would have had to be massive.
   
• what I do like about this building is that it's slightly elevated above street level, which matches the scene

Of course I noticed the same issues you described on the NE corner, but this is the best and only shot we have so far. Do not forget that a crew member remembered that this location was in the northern part of Biscayne Bvd. I checked Biscayne up to 180+Street and there is no other building near Biscayne Bvd that remotely fits. This together with the Design District makes a tight net of evidence although circumstancial still.

Everybody is invited to come up with a better alternative or explanation.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb daytona365:

This one is very convincing, I think even more than the Gifford place

Then you will love the Park Location above in Crandon Park!

[Tom]

Am 15.12.2020 um 11:50 schrieb daytona365:

It's indeed a possibility, but I don't think there is enough conclusive evidence besides the four window pattern on one side of the building. A few thoughts on this from my side:

• the traffic visible in the third window from from the left is a perpendicular direction to the street/driveway in front of the windows, hence the cars are either on Biscayne Blvd or N Federal Hwy, so this would have to be either the SW or NE corner of the building. On the North and South sides of the building however, there is now an even wider distance between the windows. The sets of four narrow windows are only facing Biscayne Blvd.
   
• there is a big concrete pillar on the corner that extends out enough to fully block the view through the fourth window from this angle. Changing this to the current appearance of the building would have meant moving out the walls to be almost flush with this pillar, which I can't really imagine having been done.
  
   
• I would think that the zig-zag shape of the wall will have been reflected also on the outside of the building. Again here, the remodelling would have had to be massive.

 

Latest pictures of that NE corner (that´s the only one that fits) reveal that it is indeed possible that the windows have been changed during the 2006 renovation without major reconstruction needed on the building and load bearing walls.

There is an overhang above the slim windows and on the corner compared to the roofline and the windows are indented slightly as well. Plus the window closest to the corner behind Crockett is missing and could have been patched over completely.

The glass front on the second floor and above seems to be completely new (also maybe much "thicker" than before?)

In the episode we see a partial wall overhang above each of the four slim windows. in essence, ALL 4 windows look massively indented inward from the outer wall-line of the building. That could have been changed back in 2006 together with any zig zag pattern on the outside if it ever existed at all and was not only an interior element.

Thus, it is possible that

• the window line was either shifted a bit outward and/or the corner column reduced/newly incorporated into the cornerline without jeopardizing the load bearing of the structure or causing major reconstruction
• number and width of windows in windowline changed from 4 to what we see on current pictures (the 2006 seems to have been a major one given the aerial comparisons and the very new look on ALL elements of the outer hall of the building and the window-line itself is NO load bearing element here and could have changed freely)

Maybe we should hire an architecture consultant to verify this ?

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

As mentioned with "Childs play" and "Made for each other": for me this episode is fully sussed out location-wise (the boat race and its different locations was dissected in detail on CGlides website). Some are 90+% strong suspects and technically not 100% proven due to nature of location and time elapsed, but 5+ detailed matches per case and no existent "knock-out" for any of them makes me say we have proven them as good as possible and reached better circumstancial evidence as in most court proceedings.

This episode is closed for me location-wise, except someone comes up with conclusive evidence that says otherwise.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Tom

[airtommy]

@C Glide

Boat Race

After they go under the Haulover Bridge, the next cut has not been located.  I believe they are heading south on the Intracoastal Waterway at the county line between Hollywood and Golden Beach.

Google Street View link

Notice the white railing is exactly the same and there is still a flagpole

In the background, two houses match up, as does the greenery of Golden Beach's North Island looming nearby.

Edited April 14, 2021 by airtommy

[Tom]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb airtommy:

@C Glide

Boat Race

After they go under the Haulover Bridge, the next cut has not been located.  I believe they are heading south on the Intracoastal Waterway at the county line between Hollywood and Golden Beach.

Google Street View link

Notice the white railing is exactly the same and there is still a flagpole

In the background, two houses match up, as does the greenery of Golden Beach's North Island looming nearby.

I didn´t realize that there was one snippet of the race missing. But great find and now this episode seems to be fully complete!

[Matt5]

A 2022 photo more South than we see in the 1984 episode which was from the Ritz Carlton looking north. This photo I took was from 600 Grapetree Drive just off Crandon Bvld, Key Biscayne looking north at Key Biscayne beach.