Favorite ep. of all time.

[Glades]

 

I always wondering myself, where I can find the result of these polls?

[Robbie C.]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:10 AM, Glades said:

 

I always wondering myself, where I can find the result of these polls?

I'm guessing it broke or was removed during a software upgrade or some other issue. You see a lot of broken things from the 'old days' around here...image links and such.

[Glades]

Thanks, indeed, there are a lot of images and smilies missing.

 

 

[James]

4 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

I'm guessing it broke or was removed during a software upgrade or some other issue. You see a lot of broken things from the 'old days' around here...image links and such.

In 2009 we were running vBulletin software, and now we're running IP Board. There must be incompatibilities between the two where polls didn't convert during the database conversion. 

[Robbie C.]

5 hours ago, James said:

In 2009 we were running vBulletin software, and now we're running IP Board. There must be incompatibilities between the two where polls didn't convert during the database conversion. 

That’s what I figured. A shame in some ways, but it happens. 

[FerrariCrockett]

I will always consider "Evan" to be my favorite MV episode. I love any episodes that delve deeper into the characters' pasts. We had gotten some of Tubbs' background in "Brother's Keeper" and "Rites of Passage," and had even gotten to know more about Castillo through "The Golden Triangle" episodes. But I remember being really drawn to "Evan" for how it managed to convey so much history and personal strife in a single episode regarding Sonny's past. In my personal opinion, I don't think that any other episode that dealt with Sonny's past struck as big a chord with me compared to "Evan." 

[vicegirl85]

I think Back in the World, Buddies, and Stone's War did a good job with some Crockett background (although they have major flaws).  But you're right, I think that Sonny's confession of his guilt over his inaction with Orgell marked something that for him went very deep and stuck with him, affecting his life choices for a long time.  Some other Crockett-background eps (especially Jack of All Trades) seemed tacked on and insignificant, but Evan gave us something significant about his past life and experiences.

[Robbie C.]

Except that Evan only lines up with Evan. It's never referenced again, and given how Sonny puts other people in danger to close his cases you have to wonder how much he really learned from the whole thing. I think the real significance of Evan is Evan himself and his warning to Sonny. That's where the actual power lies in my view. I think Back in World and Buddies don't resonate because DJ had issues in any episode that tied Sonny to Vietnam (even though it was an intrinsic part of the character's background going all the way back to the pilot). Evan was more neutral for him personally, so he could put more into it. That's just my impression based on how he acts in Vietnam-related episodes compared to others.

[Marco Falcone]

I think my favorite episode of all time is the one where Sonny and Rico have to work that case that forces them to confront their own internal demons.

Where Gina and Trudi look soooo HOT working the street for intel.

The one where they end up in gunfight against multiple suspects, and Sonny works a solid reload on his Bren 10 and Tubbs has to transition to his shotty.  And Switek and Zito provide some heavy fire support.

And then there’s that scene where Castillo is so intense during the debrief that the paint practically peels off the walls.

You know, that one with the killer scene of them speeding in a sweet Ferrari on the shimmering, neon-reflecting, rain-slicked streets...

With the incredible soundtrack that exponentially improves the gorgeous cinematography of that one specific, smoldering moment.

The one with the color and heat and STYLE.

That ends with Sonny in a silent scream...


Yeah.

That one.

That’s my favorite.

[FerrariCrockett]

2 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I think Back in the World, Buddies, and Stone's War did a good job with some Crockett background (although they have major flaws).  But you're right, I think that Sonny's confession of his guilt over his inaction with Orgell marked something that for him went very deep and stuck with him, affecting his life choices for a long time.  Some other Crockett-background eps (especially Jack of All Trades) seemed tacked on and insignificant, but Evan gave us something significant about his past life and experiences.

Very true! I also saw Sonny finally talking about the Orgell experience as a moment where he and Rico's relationship as partners finally broke open completely. Sonny was finally able to talk about it in a way that he seemed unable to before. I'm just going by his body language alone and how he tells the story to Rico. It seemed as though it had been bottled up for a while. Not to mention that the scene was so well-acted, and Jan Hammer's score in that moment is classic MV. 

[FerrariCrockett]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

Except that Evan only lines up with Evan. It's never referenced again, and given how Sonny puts other people in danger to close his cases you have to wonder how much he really learned from the whole thing. I think the real significance of Evan is Evan himself and his warning to Sonny. That's where the actual power lies in my view. I think Back in World and Buddies don't resonate because DJ had issues in any episode that tied Sonny to Vietnam (even though it was an intrinsic part of the character's background going all the way back to the pilot). Evan was more neutral for him personally, so he could put more into it. That's just my impression based on how he acts in Vietnam-related episodes compared to others.

I think you make a great point, and I agree completely on the other episodes where his Vietnam backstory is shown. 

 

I do wonder why Evan and the Mike Orgell storyline never made a larger impact on the show going forward, other than the single episode. I would say that maybe it was because the writers and crew figured that no one in the audience would remember the details from a first season episode. But that doesn't hold up too much, considering they brought back Angelina when Calderone's son showed up later on. So it's not that they were against bringing back old storylines and characters again. Makes me wonder, now that you've mentioned it. Great point.

[BunMVO]

Keep in mind that the nature of Miami Vice is very episodic and based more on emotions and images than storyline.

[mjcmmv]

2 hours ago, pmconroy said:

Keep in mind that the nature of Miami Vice is very episodic and based more on emotions and images than storyline.

I agree with you in part. It is somewhat episodic, but not exclusively. This has been brought up before, so I'm really just bring it forward again.

There are two major arcs in the show that tie up several episodes and even more than one season . The obvious arc is the Burnett Trilogy, that goes all the way back to Forgive Us Our Sins in Season 3, and there's the Calderone Arc that FerrariCrockett pointed out, that spans two seasons.

They could have done more with Evan, I agree. It was so powerful and had such an impact on Sonny, I could see another episode easily. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Robbie C.]

Evan in terms of Crockett's backstory is a one-off anomaly that doesn't line up with anything we know about the character. That doesn't make it a less-powerful episode, but it DOES mean that you can't expect it to inform his actions going forward. If nothing else, Crockett was NOT a wide-eyed innocent just off the farm going into the academy. He would have had at least six years of military service, to include two tours in Vietnam (one of which would have involved combat of some kind). I've talked about this before, so when evaluating Crockett's character the episode is really useless. Where it does become interesting is how it could have informed later episodes if writers went back looking for things they could use in the later seasons. If you look at the entire Burnett arc, combined with Sonny's reckless actions (or lack of action in some cases) leading to the deaths of CIs and even other cops (Larry), Evan's speech about redemption and "Now it's your turn" take on a whole new weight and meaning.

Vice may have been episodic in nature, but I think you can argue that some of its larger ideas and images clearly were not. Putting aside the events that led to Evan confronting Sonny (because they don't work within the framework the series gives us for Crockett's background), it's the confrontation itself that has the weight. Evan all in white and Burnett all in black? A coincidence for a series that prided itself on visuals?

[Glades]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Robbie C.:

Evan all in white and Burnett all in black? A coincidence for a series that prided itself on visuals?

I understand why Burnett is in black, but do you think, Evan is white means he is innocent? Or what is the meaning of white in this case? And no, I think the colours of the clothing in MV is usually no coincidence.

(And CI is an informant, right?)

[Robbie C.]

Yes, CI is Confidential Informant. Think Izzy and Noogie.

I think they put Evan in white because he was on his way to his redemption. When Crockett rejected his plea for forgiveness, I think Evan took the only route he thought he had left. He'd been torturing himself for years, taking the old-fashioned path to redemption. And he was telling Sonny he needed to do the same. One way or the other.

[Bren10]

CI-Confidential or Criminal Informant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informant

 

[Glades]

Thanks Robbie and Bren10!

The old-fashioned part of redemption is the normal police work, busting the bad guys? But not really risking anything in personal rather put risk on an informant?
And the new one is to risk just ones own life?

[Robbie C.]

4 minutes ago, Glades said:

Thanks Robbie and Bren10!

The old-fashioned part of redemption is the normal police work, busting the bad guys? But not really risking anything in personal rather put risk on an informant?
And the new one is to risk just ones own life?

In Evan's case I'd say he saw his redemption in taking bigger and bigger risks with his own life to take down bad guys. He wanted Sonny's forgiveness based on that. He was also telling Sonny he had to find his own redemption - be a man and admit his own mistakes.

By old-fashioned I mean redemption through trials and suffering. That's what Evan was doing. In my view, anyhow.

[Glades]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb Robbie C.:

In Evan's case I'd say he saw his redemption in taking bigger and bigger risks with his own life to take down bad guys. He wanted Sonny's forgiveness based on that.

I agree with this. That´s what Evan did in the episode and before as I understood it. And the biggest risk he takes in the end.

But what do you mean with "through trials and suffering"?

Sorry for asking and thank you for answering. I just try to understand.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Robbie C.:

I think they put Evan in white because he was on his way to his redemption.

So it would mean not innocent as a newborn but again "innocent" after/on his way to redemption. Makes sense to me.

[Robbie C.]

16 minutes ago, Glades said:

I agree with this. That´s what Evan did in the episode and before as I understood it. And the biggest risk he takes in the end.

But what do you mean with "through trials and suffering"?

Sorry for asking and thank you for answering. I just try to understand.

 

So it would mean not innocent as a newborn but again "innocent" after/on his way to redemption. Makes sense to me.

You're fine. Keep asking questions!

I think Even had decided his route to redemption was the older Catholic idea of going through penance by completing trials of faith and character. For him that was taking the kind of chances he did undercover to make his arrests. Every arrest he made was the completion of another trial, at least in his mind. Then, finally, he'd done enough that his path led him back to Sonny...the man he ultimately wanted forgiveness from.

[mjcmmv]

So, I want to get a friend to watch an episode of Miami Vice with me. She's never seen it (Yes, she lives in the US).

She loves Law and Order and mysteries. She wants a good story and lots of emotion.

She's not into clothes so much, but likes a good looking guy in her shows. (ahem) 

She can tolerate violence but doesn't like a lot of pain and suffering. 

I really want to win her over. What episode do you think will impress her the most?

Edited August 18, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Bren10]

Many would obviously say the pilot but not all the elements are in place there yet. I think I would pick No Exit. It's an early episode and I think it exemplifies what the show would do best in the future. And it's got a known movie star in it which gives it credibility to someone who's never seen it. Plus it's only an hour. A new viewer might get antsy sitting through a feature length ep.

[mjcmmv]

11 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Many would obviously say the pilot but not all the elements are in place there yet. I think I would pick No Exit. It's an early episode and I think it exemplifies what the show would do best in the future. And it's got a known movie star in it which gives it credibility to someone who's never seen it. Plus it's only an hour. A new viewer might get antsy sitting through a feature length ep.

Good choice! I was thinking Definitely Miami, but I like this better. Thanks!

[Bren10]

Definitely Miami is certainly on the top 10 list to show someone, but I was thinking in chronological terms in case they want to commit to the show from the beginning. In other words, what's the earliest point that the show becomes a prime example of itself? I think No Exit is that point.