Favorite ep. of all time.

[BunMVO]

10 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

This feature length episode is better than most action/thriller movies, the music was just fabulous, the scene where Crockett and Tubbs get chased in the street and Rubber Miro by Liquid Liquid is playing was pure genius.

Still some quality episodes after season 2 but I didn't really enjoy any of the episodes after 2, after the Mann era, I found them too political and a bit boring to be honest, it was like all of the fun, excitement and the vibe was all gone.  

I completely agree. It bothers me when people say that the first three seasons are the best - you can't really compare the later seasons to the first two. Not even close. (bonus points if you caught the reference)

 

[ViceFanMan]

On 10/24/2018 at 11:30 AM, RedDragon86 said:

In 'Death and the lady' did you notice that they used Crockett's driving sequence from 'Shadow In The Dark' at the end of the episode? I don't know why they wouldn't think we would not notice Sonny's short hair, and the scene it self is important enough to remember. Again in season 4 in 'Baseballs Of Death' they used a speed boat clip of Sonny from season one, why didn't they just film these scenes properly?

It’s called “stock footage” (aka they take past, short scenes from past episodes and implement them into the current episode). Almost all shows from the 50s on up through even the mid 90s did this. It was an in-expensive and easy way to use really unimportant scenes, such as driving or getting from one place to another, that you are really not supposed to put that much importance on. Nowadays we look at and evaluate everything!  We purposely try and find mistakes or goofs. Therefore today there’s not much creativity left.  Everything has to be literal and exact…there’s no imagination allowable. 

The music in Prodigal Son was awesome, yes ...but overall I was not impressed with the episode as a whole. In my opinion, Crockett and Tubbs acted ridiculous, and suddenly made stupid choices they wouldn’t or didn’t any other time/place, and there are several other episodes that season that were much more worthy of a 2-hr premiere than Prodigal—my opinion!  

Edited October 26, 2018 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

It’s called “stock footage” (aka they take past, short scenes from past episodes and implement them into the current episode). Almost all shows from the 50s on up through even the mid 90s did this. It was an in-expensive and easy way to use really unimportant scenes, such as driving or getting from one place to another, that you are really not supposed to put that much importance on. Nowadays we look at and evaluate everything!  We purposely try and find mistakes or goofs. Therefore today there’s not much creativity left.  Everything has to be literal and exact…there’s no imagination allowable. 

The music in Prodigal Son was awesome, yes ...but overall I was not impressed with the episode as a whole. In my opinion, Crockett and Tubbs acted ridiculous, and suddenly made stupid choices they wouldn’t or didn’t any other time/place, and there are several other episodes that season that were much more worthy of a 2-hr premiere than Prodigal—my opinion!  

I don't agree but I respect your opinion, It was hardly hidden in plain sight though, it was obvious the first time I saw it, you only have to do is notice his short hair, and of course its important, the continuity has to be there, this type of thing never happened in the first 2 seasons did it? the production team after Michael Mann left became sloppy and lazy, in the episode 'By Hooker By Crook' at the end there was a guy shooting on the top floor of that Asian guys house, one minute he was Asian and the next a White guy, at the end of 'Indian Wars' one minute Tubbs isn't wearing glasses the seconds later he is, the attention to detail wasn't as strong after season 2. 

And Crockett and Tubbs used unorthotox methods because they out of their own environment, they had to make different decisions, no back up just working off their instincts, if they were back in Miami of course they would have made better choices because they had an entire unit to back them up, I thought the calls they made created a thrilling ride throughout. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

5 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I don't agree but I respect your opinion, It was hardly hidden in plain sight though, it was obvious the first time I saw it, you only have to do is notice his short hair, and of course its important, the continuity has to be there, this type of thing never happened in the first 2 seasons did it? the production team after Michael Mann left became sloppy and lazy, in the episode 'By Hooker By Crook' at the end there was a guy shooting on the top floor of that Asian guys house, one minute he was Asian and the next a White guy, at the end of 'Indian Wars' one minute Tubbs isn't wearing glasses the seconds later he is, the attention to detail wasn't as strong after season 2. 

And Crockett and Tubbs used unorthotox methods because they out of their own environment, they had to make different decisions, no back up just working off their instincts, if they were back in Miami of course they would have made better choices because they had an entire unit to back them up, I thought the calls they made created a thrilling ride throughout. 

 I do agree that after Mann left, and the continual changing of the writers, did not help the production of the show. There were character inconsistencies, and certain storylines were left open-ended and never returned to or “closed.”

But, regardless of that...there were actually several stock footage scenes throughout the entire show, even the first couple seasons. There were several driving scenes, and/or pulling into the OCB scenes that were continually re-used in several episodes.  Even a show as innovative as MV for its time, it still used some stock footage like all the other shows. Television just did that at that time because it cut down on cost and it was easier just to stick those scenes in there and because you weren’t really supposed to put that much importance on them. Nowadays of course we do, and stock footage is no longer used.  Like I said before, everything has to be literal and exact…and there’s no room left for imagination or creativity.  People can’t just watch a show and go with it for fun and entertainment anymore. They analyze every single detail like a scientific experiment.  I miss the old days when I was growing up. TV was fun to watch, then. 

 As for Prodigal, I understand that Crockett and Tubbs had to make some unorthodox decisions as far as dealing with the corrupt NYPD. However, I am talking about a lot of other decisions and things they did while they were there. They were still ridiculous and stupid  compared to how their characters usually acted or approached situations most of the other time, in my opinion...and it got them in even more trouble. It wasn’t like Crockett and Tubbs were only intelligent cops in Miami...and everywhere or anywhere else they were suddenly morons, LOL.  

I don’t know, I just felt that Prodigal was really not that great of an episode, except for the music…which was awesome! I feel there are many other episodes that season that should’ve been the special 2-hr premiere, and Prodigal could’ve just been a regular “filler” during the middle of the season. 

[RedDragon86]

17 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

 I do agree that after Mann left, and the continual changing of the writers, did not help the production of the show. There were character inconsistencies, and certain storylines were left open-ended and never returned to or “closed.”

But, regardless of that...there were actually several stock footage scenes throughout the entire show, even the first couple seasons. There were several driving scenes, and/or pulling into the OCB scenes that were continually re-used in several episodes.  Even a show as innovative as MV for its time, it still used some stock footage like all the other shows. Television just did that at that time because it cut down on cost and it was easier just to stick those scenes in there and because you weren’t really supposed to put that much importance on them. Nowadays of course we do, and stock footage is no longer used.  Like I said before, everything has to be literal and exact…and there’s no room left for imagination or creativity.  People can’t just watch a show and go with it for fun and entertainment anymore. They analyze every single detail like a scientific experiment.  I miss the old days when I was growing up. TV was fun to watch, then. 

 As for Prodigal, I understand that Crockett and Tubbs had to make some unorthodox decisions as far as dealing with the corrupt NYPD. However, I am talking about a lot of other decisions and things they did while they were there. They were still ridiculous and stupid  compared to how their characters usually acted or approached situations most of the other time, in my opinion...and it got them in even more trouble. It wasn’t like Crockett and Tubbs were only intelligent cops in Miami...and everywhere or anywhere else they were suddenly morons, LOL.  

I don’t know, I just felt that Prodigal was really not that great of an episode, except for the music…which was awesome! I feel there are many other episodes that season that should’ve been the special 2-hr premiere, and Prodigal could’ve just been a regular “filler” during the middle of the season. 

Thanks for the reply, what decisions did Sonny & Rico make in Prodigal Son did you not agree with in particular?

The used scenes just bothered me slightly, that's all, I can honestly say I never noticed this in season 1 and 2, maybe a glass, cup, or any other kind of object is there then its not. 

[ViceFanMan]

4 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Thanks for the reply, what decisions did Sonny & Rico make in Prodigal Son did you not agree with in particular?

The used scenes just bothered me slightly, that's all, I can honestly say I never noticed this in season 1 and 2, maybe a glass, cup, or any other kind of object is there then its not. 

 No problem, it’s always interesting to see and hear other people’s opinions. 

 The stock footage, or re-used scenes, were more when Crockett and Tubbs were pulling into the OCB, or when they were driving on a highway at night to confront a bad-guy, small things like that. There were not a lot, this is true. But there were a few here and there. I actually noticed them more in the first couple seasons when the show 1st got started, compared to later seasons. 

 As for Prodigal, I just felt that Crockett and Tubbs both made personal decisions that were ridiculous and got them in even more trouble while they were in New York. Tubbs of course always got “stupid” with Valerie  , but Crockett also made really stupid decisions by getting with that one woman at this club and subsequently having his gun stolen, he suddenly decides to walk around at night by himself in an insanely huge city he has no clue how to get around in, all the while he knows corrupt cops & drug lords were trying to kill him...and there were just several decisions that I thought were really dumb. It just seemed like they were really careless and stupid...especially once they knew that the NYPD was corrupt and in on it with the drug cartel. 

 A lot of fans love this episode...I am just one of the few that did not think it was all that great.   I still think there were other episodes that same season that could’ve been used for the special 2-hr premiere, and this one could’ve been used later in the season as just a regular episode. But that’s just my opinion.  

[Matt5]

On 10/24/2018 at 5:30 PM, RedDragon86 said:

In 'Death and the lady' did you notice that they used Crockett's driving sequence from 'Shadow In The Dark' at the end of the episode? I don't know why they wouldn't think we would not notice Sonny's short hair, and the scene it self is important enough to remember. Again in season 4 in 'Baseballs Of Death' they used a speed boat clip of Sonny from season one, why didn't they just film these scenes properly?

Yes I did it was just how they edited it - I’ll have to go back and look at the speedboat scenes from “Baseballs of Death”. Most of those scenes were shot up at the 79th Street Causeway and some off the Venetian Islands for “Baseballs of Death”.

[RedDragon86]

20 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

 No problem, it’s always interesting to see and hear other people’s opinions. 

 The stock footage, or re-used scenes, were more when Crockett and Tubbs were pulling into the OCB, or when they were driving on a highway at night to confront a bad-guy, small things like that. There were not a lot, this is true. But there were a few here and there. I actually noticed them more in the first couple seasons when the show 1st got started, compared to later seasons. 

 As for Prodigal, I just felt that Crockett and Tubbs both made personal decisions that were ridiculous and got them in even more trouble while they were in New York. Tubbs of course always got “stupid” with Valerie  , but Crockett also made really stupid decisions by getting with that one woman at this club and subsequently having his gun stolen, he suddenly decides to walk around at night by himself in an insanely huge city he has no clue how to get around in, all the while he knows corrupt cops & drug lords were trying to kill him...and there were just several decisions that I thought were really dumb. It just seemed like they were really careless and stupid...especially once they knew that the NYPD was corrupt and in on it with the drug cartel. 

 A lot of fans love this episode...I am just one of the few that did not think it was all that great.   I still think there were other episodes that same season that could’ve been used for the special 2-hr premiere, and this one could’ve been used later in the season as just a regular episode. But that’s just my opinion.  

Cheers for taking the time to type this.

Surely you can cut Crockett some slack walking around New York at night, after all we wouldn't have got that memorable "You Belong to The City"  scene by Glenn Frey 

Edited October 27, 2018 by RedDragon86

[vicegirl85]

It was a great scene, and I thoroughly enjoyed the song--but really when watching and considering the story being told, that scene is more like a music video made especially for the song than a scene that relates to the storyline.  Sometimes when watching the show, it's necessary to suspend disbelief and try not to force it to make sense, otherwise it certainly cuts down on the enjoyment, LOL.

As for the episode:  I think it's iconic of Miami Vice, and I enjoy it each time I watch it.  Also it circles back to Tubbs' history before he came to Miami, which is fitting.  Is it the season's strongest episode?  Is there another episode that was made, that would have been a better season opener or 2-hour episode?  I'm not sure about that.  There are several episodes I would like to have seen expanded and gotten into on a deeper level.  But what we have is what was selected at the time, by Michael Mann and the other producers/directors/writers.

Some people are super into the "looks" of the show, e.g. pastels, music, clothing styles, cars, guest stars, etc.  Some are more attached to the development of characters, using the whole cast as a team, storylines, episodic vs serialized storytelling.  Some (maybe fewer, LOL) liked the current events-type stories of Dick Wolf, while some hate those.  Many people want MV to entertain them with more lighthearted storylines, while others are moved by the tragic ones.

There's room for all of those things here

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Cheers for taking the time to type this.

Surely you can cut Crockett some slack walking around New York at night, after all we wouldn't have got that memorable "You Belong to The City"  scene by Glenn Frey 

Lol, the scene itself looked cool, this is true...and the music was awesome! Just the plot behind it was ridiculous (my opinion).  

[RedDragon86]

On 10/27/2018 at 6:15 PM, vicegirl85 said:

It was a great scene, and I thoroughly enjoyed the song--but really when watching and considering the story being told, that scene is more like a music video made especially for the song than a scene that relates to the storyline.  Sometimes when watching the show, it's necessary to suspend disbelief and try not to force it to make sense, otherwise it certainly cuts down on the enjoyment, LOL.

As for the episode:  I think it's iconic of Miami Vice, and I enjoy it each time I watch it.  Also it circles back to Tubbs' history before he came to Miami, which is fitting.  Is it the season's strongest episode?  Is there another episode that was made, that would have been a better season opener or 2-hour episode?  I'm not sure about that.  There are several episodes I would like to have seen expanded and gotten into on a deeper level.  But what we have is what was selected at the time, by Michael Mann and the other producers/directors/writers.

Some people are super into the "looks" of the show, e.g. pastels, music, clothing styles, cars, guest stars, etc.  Some are more attached to the development of characters, using the whole cast as a team, storylines, episodic vs serialized storytelling.  Some (maybe fewer, LOL) liked the current events-type stories of Dick Wolf, while some hate those.  Many people want MV to entertain them with more lighthearted storylines, while others are moved by the tragic ones.

There's room for all of those things here

Lighthearted? do you think 'Back In the World' or 'Little Miss Dangerous' or 'Heart of Darkness' were light hearted? or 'Out Where The Buses Don't Run'  or the John Turturro episode? there were a lot of serious episodes during 1&2, Michael Mann was once quoted in saying "people look back at my work in Miami Vice and assume it was all about palm trees and cool cars,  I think we made some serious episodes, touched on a lot of different subjects" just because the show during 1&2 looked great on the eye didn't excuse the fact it was serious at the same time, the thing is during the Michael Mann era every episode was stylish and the music was great, but at the same time the storylines were fantastic.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by RedDragon86

[vicegirl85]

2 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Lighthearted? do you think 'Back In the World' or Little Miss Dangerous or 'Heart of Darkness'was light hearted? or Out Were The Buses Don't Run'  or the John Turturro episode? (snipped)

Not at all.  I think nearly every episode exposed a dark side to human nature, whether the ones exposed were criminals or police officers.  Some of the members here have mentioned earlier episodes that felt more lighthearted to them.  I'm not one of those who saw a lighthearted aspect.

[ViceFanMan]

 There were some lighthearted moments especially in the first few seasons of MV.  When the show first started, some of the  corny humor, and/or one-liners, were still periodically used. That was still just the style.  There were also some very light hearted and ridiculously silly moments with Switek and Zito, and the informants Izzy and Noogie. 

However, there was always a “dark” side to MV, and as time went on the “darker”  and more tragic aspects were definitely more focused on, And the silly or goofy humor (few moments that there were previously) was pretty much phased out.

[RedDragon86]

14 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

 There were some lighthearted moments especially in the first few seasons of MV.  When the show first started, some of the  corny humor, and/or one-liners, were still periodically used. That was still just the style.  There were also some very light hearted and ridiculously silly moments with Switek and Zito, and the informants Izzy and Noogie. 

However, there was always a “dark” side to MV, and as time went on the “darker”  and more tragic aspects were definitely more focused on, And the silly or goofy humor (few moments that there were previously) was pretty much phased out.

I always enjoy the funny side of it things, one scene in particular were Crockett and Tubb's are chasing Izzy into the bank, and he thinks he has being setup with money dye all over him lol.

I love the rat race in Phil The Shill, I really liked the balance. 

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I always enjoy the funny side of it things, one scene in particular were Crockett and Tubb's are chasing Izzy into the bank, and he thinks he has being setup with money dye all over him lol.

I love the rat race in Phil The Shill, I really liked the balance. 

Some humor is okay...but Izzy and Noogie usually just annoyed me, and I didn’t find them that funny—Noogie especially!  Izzy wasn’t as bad, and I could handle him a little better. Overall, I enjoyed some joking banter between Crockett and Tubbs, or both of them with Gina & Trudy...but I liked the more serious parts of the episodes. Not necessarily the sad, violent, or tragic parts...just the plots themselves and the investigations thereof (excluding Missing Hours & Cows of October). 

[Vincent Hanna]

Quote

 

Some people are super into the "looks" of the show, e.g. pastels, music, clothing styles, cars, guest stars, etc.  Some are more attached to the development of characters, using the whole cast as a team, storylines, episodic vs serialized storytelling.  Some (maybe fewer, LOL) liked the current events-type stories of Dick Wolf, while some hate those.  Many people want MV to entertain them with more lighthearted storylines, while others are moved by the tragic ones.

There's room for all of those things here 

 

That's a nice way of looking at it. 

Sometimes we just assume everyone else likes the same stuff about the show as ourselves. Even though I liked the more serious stories the most, maybe you need the silly and lighter ones for contrast.

I know this unpopular opinion but I do kinda like the Dick Wolf S3 stuff .  Alright it may not be as fun as S1 & 2 but it was more mature and had felt like there was more plot. There's some S2 episodes where not much is happening.

[ViceFanMan]

14 hours ago, Vincent Hanna said:

That's a nice way of looking at it. 

Sometimes we just assume everyone else likes the same stuff about the show as ourselves. Even though I liked the more serious stories the most, maybe you need the silly and lighter ones for contrast.

I know this unpopular opinion but I do kinda like the Dick Wolf S3 stuff .  Alright it may not be as fun as S1 & 2 but it was more mature and had felt like there was more plot. There's some S2 episodes where not much is happening.

Season 2 is my favorite as a whole...but I agree, there are several Season 3 episodes that are really good. I even don’t fully agree with the overall popular opinion that seasons 4-5 were/are terrible. Now, there were some terrible episodes in those seasons (Cows of October & Missing Hours for example), but there were some pretty awesome “raw”, gritty, plot & character gripping episodes too!   It wasn’t all bad. 

[Robbie C.]

I honestly don't know that I have a favorite episode. I have favorite plot arcs and characters, but not necessarily a single episode. Might have to give this some thought and see if any particular one floats to the surface.

[summer84]

One of my favorites is the "Pilot" movie, "Bought and Paid For," "Calderone's saga" and so on. Hard to pick just one and exclude others. But if I had to, just maybe it would be the "Pilot." I believe Saundra Santiago said in The French Twist Reunion hers were "Heroes of The Revolution" of those, where she had the main part and overall "The Pilot."

Edited March 13, 2019 by summer84

[Vincent Hanna]

^How come there were so many Gina centered episodes compared to Trudy? Would've been nice to see more.

I'm going to cheat and say my favourite half of an episode is the first 20 mins of Yankee Dollar. The pre-title scene with Par Avion - Mike & the Mechanics playing as Crockett is driving his flight attendent girlfriend home and her tragic death is ridiculously well done. The scene where they chase her brother down the beach and tackle him into the ocean.

"Where's her body?" Crockett realising he's in on it, punches him in the face. That's some of the best TV ever. I remember being so happy the first time watching this ep because it was what I imagined the show to be like it and it delivered.

[BunMVO]

2 minutes ago, Vincent Hanna said:

^How come there were so many Gina centered episodes compared to Trudy? Would've been nice to see more.

I'm going to cheat and say my favourite half of an episode is the first 20 mins of Yankee Dollar. The pre-title scene with Par Avion - Mike & the Mechanics playing as Crockett is driving his flight attendent girlfriend home and her tragic death is ridiculously well done. The scene where they chase her brother down the beach and tackle him into the ocean.

"Where's her body?" Crockett realising he's in on it, punches him in the face. That's some of the best TV ever. I remember being so happy the first time watching this ep because it was what I imagined the show to be like it and it delivered.

That scene was one of my favorites. Par Avion is the perfect song for chilling out on warm summer nights. 

[Robbie C.]

I also wish they had featured Trudy in more episodes. Maybe "Missing Hours" refers to her lack of screen time and serious character development.

[Dadrian]

I watched “Death and the Lady” night before last. I’m love it more every time it rolls around (I religiously watch the episodes in order). 

Although I’m more of a S1-S3 person, this episode continues to climb to the top of my list—probably in my top 3 of the series currently. 

[Rattlehead]

I've settled on a single favorite episode - Heart of Darkness. The pilot does everything right so how do you follow it up? With this episode! The plot, music, everything about this episode is perfect to me. 

[summer84]

There were some episodes dedicated to Trudy like "The Dutch Oven," I guess you could count "Baby Blues," "Missing Hours," "Hell Hath No Fury" and "Asian Cut," almost one episode for each season, which is very little over the course of 5 seasons. Crockett and Tubbs were highly prioritized/the main focus leaving the other characters behind unfortunately. I noticed Trudy was featured more than Gina, when they filmed scenes at the OCB and the briefing room. And maybe the producers hadn't planned in the beginning for the supporting cast to play a major part in the show, as Crockett and Tubbs were the main stars, so they devoloped their characters and life's, whereas the others came in occasionally. I always wished the supporting cast had had a bigger part, were included more. It's something the cast members always mention.

Edited March 27, 2019 by summer84