Sonny Crockett's Service in Vietnam

[Robbie C.]

A look at the medal rack they show in "Back in the World" indicates he served earlier than 1970, as does his claim of serving two years/two tours in country. You're also forgetting that supposed "career ending knee injury," which would also likely have disqualified him for the draft. The ribbons are also much more consistent with service as a Marine as opposed to Army. The show also never says he was drafted. I've broken this down before here, actually.

My theory is Sonny was a Marine Corps MP who served in Vietnam in late '69 or so, came back for a second tour in 1971 (which got him to Pleiku) to avoid stateside garrison garbage, signed up for a second enlistment (which got him in place for the evacuation of Saigon), and then got out as part of drawdowns in the mid-1970s. From there he went to Metro-Dade PD.

[NeonHumidity]

5 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

A look at the medal rack they show in "Back in the World" indicates he served earlier than 1970, as does his claim of serving two years/two tours in country. You're also forgetting that supposed "career ending knee injury," which would also likely have disqualified him for the draft. The ribbons are also much more consistent with service as a Marine as opposed to Army. The show also never says he was drafted. I've broken this down before here, actually.

My theory is Sonny was a Marine Corps MP who served in Vietnam in late '69 or so, came back for a second tour in 1971 (which got him to Pleiku) to avoid stateside garrison garbage, signed up for a second enlistment (which got him in place for the evacuation of Saigon), and then got out as part of drawdowns in the mid-1970s. From there he went to Metro-Dade PD.

There's no such thing as getting "disqualified from the draft".  You're drafted, inducted, and you can be disqualified from service based on your induction physical.  Which he wasn't.

People here who have experienced the same thing have said you can have a sports-career ending injury which will not let you play at a collegiate or professional level (and subsequently lose your scholarship and college deferment) but will still classify you as 1-A in the military.

And that Crockett himself said he had "two years" (tours) in Vietnam.  Seems like you're adding an extra.

Is there a reason he'd lie about being with the 1st Cav?  That seems remarkably dishonest for him.

Edited January 28 by NeonHumidity

[Robbie C.]

You're ignoring a number of things. For one, I'm not adding anything extra. For tours (as opposed to six month extensions) it was normal for someone to rotate out of country and then come back. And that alone negates the draft idea...he wouldn't have served long enough to do two tours. If a draftee re-upped at all, it was for a guarantee of rotation out of the field and by 1970 probably out of Vietnam as well. And his injury (which disappears pretty quickly in the series) was a knee injury.

You're also completely ignoring the ribbon rack we see in Back in the World. If Crockett served in 1970, he wouldn't have the number of campaign stars he does on his Vietnam service ribbon. Period. I've gone through this before in this thread and others.

As for the 1st Cav...the writers used that fairly late in the series. The Cav wasn't at Da Nang (where Sonny and Robbie came in-country as specified in Buddies), and in 1970 they were serving around Saigon. He's also specifically identified in a draft script as being a Marine. I think they used the 1st Cav later because they assumed it was a Vietnam-era unit people would be familiar with. And if he was 1st Cav, he wouldn't have been on the flight deck of that carrier in Back in the World.

[NeonHumidity]

Quote

"Served in Vietnam, came back for a second tour, signed up for a second enlistment"

That's more than two years right there.

You're prioritizing a background prop (which has no guarantee of being accurately researched or depicted, either) and a script draft over what comes out of Sonny's mouth.

I understand the weaknesses in show production and the need to try and straighten out continuity and how much time and effort you put into your own research very well, believe me, but that doesn't mean any other detail can't be discussed.  My depiction of things probably won't agree with yours.  That's fine.

I don't think Crockett re-upped after '71;  I think he very much went civilian before deciding to re-enlist 3 years later.  Maybe with the Marines this time, and that's how he got to Saigon.  Good point.

[Robbie C.]

There's zero indication Crockett left the service, and your explanation doesn't account for two tours in Vietnam in any real shape or form. If you look back through what I've written, I contend Sonny enlisted in the Marine Corps with Robbie (he wasn't drafted, so we're looking at a four year initial service commitment which allows for two thirteen month tours - that was the Marine Corps standard during Vietnam). And both elements I mention appear in the series well before the 1st Cav line drop (which makes zero sense given everything else we know about Sonny's Vietnam service).

And how do you know the writer who came up with the 1st Cav line didn't just toss that in? It came late in the series, after everything else I mentioned. 

[NeonHumidity]

14 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

And how do you know the writer who came up with the 1st Cav line didn't just toss that in? It came late in the series, after everything else I mentioned. 

I see, so things that appear as actual lines in the show are canon and usually given more weight than anything else... except when they are not?

I don't think it was tossed in because the writer would have had to presumably (finally) do some research about which regiments were doing what in Nam, and doesn't Crockett also mention Pleiku at least once?  1st Cav was based there.  

Much like I don't think they tossed in a birthday which actually would have gotten his ass drafted to the SEAC pdq after losing his deferment.

I can focus and craft a story from the details that interest me.  And you do the same.  We're allowed to look at it from different perspectives.

[Robbie C.]

Oddly you're doing the same thing you accuse me of. And by the time Crockett would have been in Pleiku the Cav was gone from that area (especially if you're using your timeline). This is basic stuff. And I notice you still haven't addressed how a draftee could do two tours in Vietnam.

[Eddie Trumbull]

I’ll say that Crockett’s military service was one of the sloppiest writing aspects of the show. I realized it even as a kid watching, it just seemed “off”…. I would say it’s comparable to Castillo’s past as a “DEA operative”, who also was in Vietnam and who also was tied to the CIA, and then for some unexplained reason downgraded to a county Sheriffs department, and rose to the rank of Lieutenant in a few years… all pretty inconceivable, but could have been written to be a little more palatable if they just took the time.. kind of lazy writing in my opinion, but it is television in the 80’s so… I always pictured Castillo as more former CIA than federal law enforcement… and they certainly alluded more to CIA in Bushido than DEA… almost like they couldn’t make up their mind.. and same thing happened with Croketts background.. 

Edited February 19 by Eddie Trumbull

[Robbie C.]

16 minutes ago, Eddie Trumbull said:

I’ll say that Crockett’s military service was one of the sloppiest writing aspects of the show. I realized it even as a kid watching, it just seemed “off”…. I would say it’s comparable to Castillo’s past as a “DEA operative”, who also was in Vietnam and who also was tied to the CIA, and then for some unexplained reason downgraded to a county Sheriffs department, and rose to the rank of Lieutenant in a few years… all pretty inconceivable, but could have been written to be a little more palatable if they just took the time.. kind of lazy writing in my opinion, but it is television in the 80’s so… I always pictured Castillo as more former CIA than federal law enforcement… and they certainly alluded more to CIA in Bushido than DEA… almost like they couldn’t make up their mind.. and same thing happened with Croketts background.. 

The DEA didn't even exist during the time they said Castillo would have been a member. Since some of the people who initially formed DEA came from CIA, I had Castillo being CIA first, then moving to DEA, and later shifting to Metro-Dade to try to have a more local impact on the situation.

[vicegirl85]

I will say that due to RobbieC's extensive research on timelines and the locations of various branches of service during the Vietnam years, I am very willing to accept his conclusions. 

It's disappointing that the show wasn't more consistent/ more accurate for those of the viewing audience who are more knowledgeable--as well as those who wish to create their own stories--but as many have said, there wasn't a "red book" with detailed character bios and a consistent timeline that was consulted and followed by the writers.

I remember Sonny telling someone his birthday is July 29, although sadly I don't remember who it was.  However, I'm thinking that it was someone (a woman) he was interacting with in his Burnett persona, and therefore may have been a fake birthday.  Not a hill I would die on, though.

[Glades]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:54 PM, vicegirl85 said:

I remember Sonny telling someone his birthday is July 29, although sadly I don't remember who it was.  However, I'm thinking that it was someone (a woman) he was interacting with in his Burnett persona, and therefore may have been a fake birthday.  Not a hill I would die on, though.

If I remember correctly Sonny told this date to Cristine von Marburg.

[Dadrian]

7 hours ago, Glades said:

If I remember correctly 

You do