Sonny Crockett's Service in Vietnam

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said:

I think at this time (when the interview aired) DJ and PMT were still fleshing out their personal visions of their characters.  Sonny Crockett's backstory wasn't cut in stone at this point, and after Yerkovich left, I think a lot of the backstory-building was tossed.  

I agree, which was a loss for the show.

[sdiegolo78]

On 2/4/2019 at 7:51 PM, king77 said:

My 2-cents.

The first episode Tubbs and Crockett briefly talk about his game winning touchdown and the NFL scouts all over him.

I am using this as my baseline and then pegging Crockett in country for the fall of Saigon in 75.

The Vietnam draft was abolished in 1973 and no male born in 1953 was ever drafted, so no way Crockett was drafted. The earliest he could have joined was 1 day after his birthday at 17 with and parental consent on July 30^th, 1970 as was the law back then. And in 1970 I do not see allot of parents giving consent to send their sons to Vietnam, especially when that child is a talented athlete.

Crockett notes 2 years in the “Southeast Asian Conference”.

The Fall of Saigon was Spring of 1975

Crockett served 2 tours in Vietnam, each being limited to 12-months maximum and usually a few months in between tours. Back then some got leave, others who either looking to move up or were tabbed as leadership material would be based and trained. Possibly based in Asia, more likely back stateside.

Ok so in the spirit of continuity.

 

Crockett was born in July of 1953. He would have been 17 when he graduated HS in 1971, so.

1.       He couldn’t have been in the service in 1969 as he would have been 15 before July 29th and 16, after. Still too young to serve.

2.       To be eligible to play college football you need a HS diploma or GED, no way Crockett is in the service during his HS Sophomore/Junior year and graduate HS and either walks-on or has a scholarship to play major college football for the 71 college football season.

3.       The earliest he could have joined the service was July 1970 with parental consent.

4.       Crockett played in the Gator Bowl and had scouts all over him for the 72 Gator Bowl.

5.       Crockett has a knee injury later in his college career and that has to be after the Gator Bowl in question as he scored the winner with 6 seconds left.

6.       Crockett would have been eligible for the NFL draft back then after his senior year 1974 and that would have been the 1975 draft as that is the first draft players born in 1953 were taken.

7.       The Vietnam draft was abolished in 1973 and no male born in 1953 was ever drafted.

8.       Congress passes the Case-Church Amendment which forbids any further US Military involvement in SE Asia, it become law on August 15, 1973

9.       By late 1973 the vast majority of US forces had left Vietnam and the remaining were pulling out.

10.   The fall of Saigon was spring of 1975.

Taking that small bit of info into consideration, his birth date and ep. 1.

 

Sonny Crockett completed HS and went to the University of Florida, either as a walk-on or on a scholarship in August of 1971 as an 18 year old student athlete. He played up until an injury and joined the service after that. The injury had to occur after the 1972 Gator Bowl. More than likely it occurred early in the 1972 college season. Crockett did not graduate with his class in May/June 1975.

In any case somewhere after the injury Crockett joins the service. And the injury would have had to be bad enough to end his football career, but not bad enough to preclude him from serving.

My assumption is that Crockett joins the service after his knee heals early in 1973 at age 19, based on his age, football career and injury this is the earliest he can be in the service and play even 1 season of college football. I do not see any evidence that Crockett was an older player. Plus he needed to serve his second tour during the fall of Saigon in Spring 1975. And if Crockett was able to get a red shirt or medical exemption he more than likely would have stayed at Florida.

His first tour would have started in mid/late-73 after boot camp and lasted until mid/late-1974. He was more than likely a general infantryman then as most 19 year olds with not having attended an academy. It was during this first tour that Crockett probably showed himself as promotable material and Crockett probably signed up for the CID at this time.

During this first hitch this is probably where Crockett and Robbie came across each other while in country, since we don’t hear of a continuing friendship, they probably went their separate ways when Robbie was injured. It also ties into the assumption that Crockett being in CID. And as we found out later, Robbie changing his last name to avoid the stigma of his gangster father’s name. Had Robbie went with Crockett to CID, no doubt his background would have been exposed then. Because it isn’t until years later we find this out, we can assume again, they went separate ways and possibly staying in minor contact over the years.

Crockett was more than likely undergoing training between tours and returned to Vietnam in some sort of CID investigative capacity probably starting in late 1974 and left in Spring of 1975 when Saigon fell. I don’t see Ira Stone going to the MP’s or directly to the Army/Navy Intelligence on the evac. ship, it had to be somebody in authority who could do something and somebody he trusted. Crockett’s uniform on the evac. ship is not one of an MP, however we don’t see the proper patches to distinguish himself as a CID investigator or anything other than a regular soldier, so Crockett may have been undercover at that time. This is why I believe he was a member of the Army CID. This would allow Crockett to step from the Army into the police force in a short period of time.

Crockett more than likely returned to the US and was discharged honorably in early/mid-1976 when his hitch was up. He would have been about either 22 or 23 at the time. And then joined the police force in 1976 using his recent CID experience to give him a leg up to join the force, plus it probably helped him move up to detective in a very short time, 4-5 years as Crockett is in OCB in 80 or 81.

 

Can't be born in 1953...it doesn't make sense with the canon story...I think someone wrote that in the MV wikia just because in the S4 1988 episode "a bullet for Crockett" Castillo mentioned his age being 35 to the ER doctor rushing him into the operation room. And it must be a goof in the script for that episode (not surprising given S4 is full of "surprises). As with his early years at Metro PD pre-vice, he started as patrol man then became armed robbery detective. It takes some time of service in the force before one could apply for detective (at least 5 years of service). And in the pilot it is implied he had known Lou Rodriguez for 6-7 years which makes for a 1977-78 start at OCB. I'd take he was for at least one year working for the Metro armed-robberies team under Lt.Malone (say from 1976)...still that would mean he had been on patrol uniform for no more than a couple of years, if you include the time at the academy as cadet officer...

[Glades]

The pilot says Crockett is 34, the same age as Don Johnson. DJ was born in December 1949.

I remember the scene in "Bullet for Crockett. The statement "male, 35 years" (in 1988) comes from a paramedic. That's not an exact date of birth, just an approximate estimate. It can make a difference to medical procedure whether a patient is 15 or 60 or 35, whether he is 35 or 38 just doesn't matter.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Glades

[sdiegolo78]

6 minutes ago, Glades said:

The pilot says Crockett is 34, the same age as Don Johnson. DJ was born in December 1949.

I remember the scene in "Bullet for Crockett. The statement "male, 35 years" (in 1988) comes from a paramedic. That's not an exact date of birth, just an approximate estimate. It can make a difference to medical procedure whether a patient is 15 or 60 or 35, whether he is 35 or 38 just doesn't matter.

Yeah, since the pilot is from around '83-84 then 34 yrs old is correct.

[Eddie Trumbull]

I think it is safe to say that the creators at MV never really put that much thought into specifying Sonny’s specific military service. I think they just provided a broad, general background and tweaked it per what they needed for the episode. If you notice they tweaked Tubb’s NYPD backround similarly as needed…. Also Crockett’s demeanor, seniority and assignment definitely did not match his short time on the job… In some episodes, when discussing Sonny’s police career, they make it seem like Crockett never worked patrol, but went right into investigative work (highly unlikely even during the cocaine wars) Also, ponder the ambiguity of Castillo’s backround, sometimes he is is former DEA.. sometimes it is inferred that he was CIA (both of which would make it extremely unusual for him to become a local police officer afterwards)  Incidentally, the camo pattern and body armor that Crockett had on looks to be a little later than Vietnam era issue.. maybe late 70’s.. so hard to tell what they were going for, if anything. All in all, it is fair to say that the MV writers were not going for continuity in the backrounds of the main characters 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Eddie Trumbull

[Robbie C.]

Not true if you look at the draft scripts. And the camo in the Stone episode is correct for 1975...the thing was set during the evacuation of Saigon.

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Eddie Trumbull said:

I think it is safe to say that the creators at MV never really put that much thought into specifying Sonny’s specific military service. I think they just provided a broad, general background and tweaked it per what they needed for the episode.  (snipped)

There was a big discussion of this previously, and RobbieC has done some outstanding research on the topic.  I have to agree with you (Eddie Trumbull) that the creators of MV weren't too interested in really developing that background or in making it consistent, and I also agree that the Vietnam service aspect was tweaked "as needed" if they wanted to use it for an episode.  It's basically impossible to reconcile Crockett's Vietnam service without giving him 2 tours, separated by a couple of years.  I think many people (including me) would have just accepted this without really thinking or researching possible dates and/ or branches of service, but I know how it takes a person out of the episode if they have actual knowledge!

That said, the lead-in to Back in the World episode was definitely set during the fall of Saigon in 1975.

Edited January 26, 2022 by vicegirl85

[pahonu]

40 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

There was a big discussion of this previously, and RobbieC has done some outstanding research on the topic.  I have to agree with you (Eddie Trumbull) that the creators of MV weren't too interested in really developing that background or in making it consistent, and I also agree that the Vietnam service aspect was tweaked "as needed" if they wanted to use it for an episode.  It's basically impossible to reconcile Crockett's Vietnam service without giving him 2 tours, separated by a couple of years.  I think many people (including me) would have just accepted this without really thinking or researching possible dates and/ or branches of service, but I know how it takes a person out of the episode if they have actual knowledge!

That said, the lead-in to Back in the World episode was definitely set during the fall of Saigon in 1975.

I agree, RobbieC has done a very thorough analysis of Crockett’s service and there do seem to be some irreconcilable elements.  I think this is reflective of the era the series was made in.  Far less energy was expended on back story details though it wasn’t ignored.   As the networks demanded 22 episodes a season, production in this era was very rapid compared to today.  Many independent writers submitted scripts that were accepted to keep pace and the results were less consistent.   

There is also the fact that the producers certainly couldn’t have envisioned a future fan base watching episodes repeatedly and commenting on an Internet forum about all the mistakes they made.  LOL!  So many of the things we notice in our binge watching today just weren’t as obvious when one episode a week was the pace.  Sometimes the errors were in different seasons separated by years.  Most people wouldn’t pick up on such inconsistencies.

I was just talking to my wife about this idea, that in the 80’s if we really liked an episode of our favorite series we had to wait for the rerun cycle and hope we didn’t miss the rerun.  We both recalled reading TV Guide to see when the episode was being repeated and being bummed if we missed it.  While syndication would eventually replay episodes, there weren’t DVD’s of series, and certainly not streaming, so it was a looong waiting game.

[Eddie Trumbull]

Robbie C, the problem with that is… Sonny would have already been in the process of joining or already on MDPD by 1975. Even if he had the fastest out-processing experience in the history of the military.. he was still supposed to be a rookie cop in the mid 70’s.  Also, the Cambodian experience and fall of Saigon were years apart.. Sonny was supposedly only in for two tours.. Again, I think MV just did a sloppy job of tying his military backstory together or modified it as needed for the episodes. As much as we love the series, it was far from perfect in terms of continuity. Watching it as a middle aged adult with almost 3 decades in law enforcement as opposed to a junior high kid are 2 very different experiences.. I see things that were done in the production sloppily now that I never noticed as a teenager. It doesn’t effect my enjoyment, but sometimes I have to suspend reality a little more. 

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Eddie Trumbull said:

As much as we love the series, it was far from perfect in terms of continuity. Watching it as a middle aged adult with almost 3 decades in law enforcement as opposed to a junior high kid are 2 very different experiences.

LOL, I have a very hard time watching any "medical" shows after 40+ years as a nurse... Definitely know what you mean about the need to suspend reality. 

[Eddie Trumbull]

Yes same. But… there were some crazy similarities if you read about the early 80’s in Miami.. like the shootout frequency was on point.. and the influx of start-up drug dealers/smugglers  Read the book “Hotel Scarface” for relevance 

[Dadrian]

7 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

LOL, I have a very hard time watching any "medical" shows after 40+ years as a nurse... Definitely know what you mean about the need to suspend reality. 

My wife is the same way.  

[Robbie C.]

2 hours ago, Eddie Trumbull said:

Robbie C, the problem with that is… Sonny would have already been in the process of joining or already on MDPD by 1975. Even if he had the fastest out-processing experience in the history of the military.. he was still supposed to be a rookie cop in the mid 70’s.  Also, the Cambodian experience and fall of Saigon were years apart.. Sonny was supposedly only in for two tours.. Again, I think MV just did a sloppy job of tying his military backstory together or modified it as needed for the episodes. As much as we love the series, it was far from perfect in terms of continuity. Watching it as a middle aged adult with almost 3 decades in law enforcement as opposed to a junior high kid are 2 very different experiences.. I see things that were done in the production sloppily now that I never noticed as a teenager. It doesn’t effect my enjoyment, but sometimes I have to suspend reality a little more. 

I actually tracked the thing back through if you read through this entire thread. There are places in the show where it's quite specific about his service and the timelines...although obviously not all. You'll also notice that I comment on the sloppiness of how the show approached his service in general, especially when compared to other shows of the same era.

Part of the reason I worked this out is there's a fairly widespread misconception that Sonny Crockett was Special Forces of some kind. And we do have some set timelines for his time with MDPD (Robbery in 1983, for example).

There will always be inconsistencies, especially in a show that put visuals above all else in many cases. I did this mostly for my own writing and to see how much of Crockett you could square with history. And as I mentioned, it turns out his military time is far more consistent than his college sports career or even his time with Metro-Dade.

[Christine]

I could well imagine that at the beginning, when the characters for such a show are designed, only a minimal background is created first. Along the lines of: What do we need in the pilot and maybe in the first two episodes after that? Only after that will something be added here and there, depending on what is needed or what ideas a script writer has for episode XY.
Since it's not always the same scriptwriters involved, it can happen that someone writing a script for, say, episode 12 in season three doesn't really look into what background the character has gotten in the meantime or just skims over it. And everything no longer fits together.

 

[Eddie Trumbull]

That’s a great point Christine.. MV had  all different writers and directors. I typically just watch each episode as a microcosm and don’t look too much past what they are showing for that storyline.  There are very few continuous carry-over arcs in the series anyway.. at least not compared to todays serialized shows.

[RedDragon86]

You would find continuity and timeline flaws in the writing in any show if you dig deep enough.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by RedDragon86

[Tom]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Christine:

I could well imagine that at the beginning, when the characters for such a show are designed, only a minimal background is created first. Along the lines of: What do we need in the pilot and maybe in the first two episodes after that? Only after that will something be added here and there, depending on what is needed or what ideas a script writer has for episode XY.
Since it's not always the same scriptwriters involved, it can happen that someone writing a script for, say, episode 12 in season three doesn't really look into what background the character has gotten in the meantime or just skims over it. And everything no longer fits together.

 

Generally true, but one aspect has to be challenged: "minimal background" for key characters in a pilot for a series is NOT standard operating procedure. Normally, writers decide at least on a high level consistent background of characters (that is then often filled up with details that are not in the script by the actors themselves, e.g. brothers, sisters, favorite food, ... ) especially if these CV items are important and are mentioned in the series as Crockett´s war and football past was. That is usually done in a specific "red book" where all predefined backgrounds and important milestones added later in a series (e.g. Crockett marries) are kept, so that new or occasional writers have guidelines to write consistent new scripts later on. That is no magic and nothing VICE specific. All good series have that. VICE did NOT apply this properly from the beginning, that´s the naked truth. One example to illustrate that, also going in line with what @Robbie C.and @Eddie Trumbullhave mentioned (there are other similar flaws during the series):

Crockett told Castillo in Deliver us from evil (early 1988) that he was 15 years on the job (although his age was never stated he was around 35 at that time, like DJ was!) and has never seen such a case except with Hackman. That means he joined the force latest in 1973. At that time he was still in Nam according to other prior episodes like Back in the world. That simply does not pan out and is a sloppy mistake. The script was from Dick Wolf, who should have looked into the "red book" before writing such a line.  They simply missed to think Crocketts´high level CV through early on. If Crockett did two tours in country and was with first cav ( as he told the mercenary in Hell hath no fury) than he could not possibly have 15 years of police experience, let alone multi-year VICE undercover experience when factoring in the years at the academy (mentioned in Evan) and his years in burglary under John Malone (mentioned in Home Invaders) before joining VICE.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Tom

[Eddie Trumbull]

Spot On Tom…. MV is guilty of a little more focus on style and music and a little less on continuity.. I think within the shows peer group in the 80s they were about on par.. people didn’t expect that much from 1980s shows.. and we are looking at it through the prism of 2022 television expectations.. either way, there are glaring mistakes (especially Crocketts time on the job vs. his Vietnam tours) that even hard core apologists cannot deny or articulate.. 

[Christine]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Tom:

Generally true, but one aspect has to be challenged: "minimal background" for key characters in a pilot for a series is NOT standard operating procedure. Normally, writers decide at least on a high level consistent background of characters (that is then often filled up with details that are not in the script by the actors themselves, e.g. brothers, sisters, favorite food, ... ) especially if these CV items are important and are mentioned in the series as Crockett´s war and football past was. That is usually done in a specific "red book" where all predefined backgrounds and important milestones added later in a series (e.g. Crockett marries) are kept, so that new or occasional writers have guidelines to write consistent new scripts later on. That is no magic and nothing VICE specific. All good series have that. VICE did NOT apply this properly from the beginning, that´s the naked truth. One example to illustrate that, also going in line with what @Robbie C.and @Eddie Trumbullhave mentioned (there are other similar flaws during the series):

Crockett told Castillo in Deliver us from evil (early 1988) that he was 15 years on the job (although his age was never stated he was around 35 at that time, like DJ was!) and has never seen such a case except with Hackman. That means he joined the force latest in 1973. At that time he was still in Nam according to other prior episodes like Back in the world. That simply does not pan out and is a sloppy mistake. The script was from Dick Wolf, who should have looked into the "red book" before writing such a line.  They simply missed to think Crocketts´high level CV through early on. If Crockett did two tours in country and was with first cav ( as he told the mercenary in Hell hath no fury) than he could not possibly have 15 years of police experience, let alone multi-year VICE undercover experience when factoring in the years at the academy (mentioned in Evan) and his years in burglary under John Malone (mentioned in Home Invaders) before joining VICE.  

When I read your post, I remembered what I had read in "The Making of Miami Vice" about John Diehl, or rather Zito. He had built the background completely by himself, invented a family and siblings. I don't think he wanted to let anyone take that out of his hands.

[cybercop106]

Here I am, watching MV for the multi-umpteenth time and getting back on the forum... late to the discussion as usual.

There were a number of inconsistencies in the Back In The World episode beginning. Obviously a number of the wounded being triaged on the ship were Caucasians, dressed in various parts of military uniforms. But during April 29-30, 1975, the evac of Saigon (Operation Frequent Wind) the only casualties/injuries were Marine Corporals McMahon & Judge, killed instantly in a rocket attack on the DAO, and pilots Cpt Nystul and 1st Lt Shea (bodies never recovered) who crashed in the sea on a CH-46F chopper.  A few other Americans were scooped from the sea without serious injury... and the uniforms worn by the Corpsmen on the ship were a mishmash of Combat ERDLs (period correct USMC) and 80's issue Woodland Camo BDUs (like Crockett's). 

Just like the fact that no-one could work undercover for years in LE with the exposure Crockett and Tubbs had around Miami, showing up at crime scenes with neckchain badges, shooting so many perps, testifying in court, etc..... the show is not based in reality. We just have to suspend disbelief and enjoy the storytelling and action an episode or two at a time I guess.

Kudos on the research and insight that went into all the discussions about Sonny's biographical timeline tho.

[RedDragon86]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:22 PM, cybercop106 said:

Here I am, watching MV for the multi-umpteenth time and getting back on the forum... late to the discussion as usual.

There were a number of inconsistencies in the Back In The World episode beginning. Obviously a number of the wounded being triaged on the ship were Caucasians, dressed in various parts of military uniforms. But during April 29-30, 1975, the evac of Saigon (Operation Frequent Wind) the only casualties/injuries were Marine Corporals McMahon & Judge, killed instantly in a rocket attack on the DAO, and pilots Cpt Nystul and 1st Lt Shea (bodies never recovered) who crashed in the sea on a CH-46F chopper.  A few other Americans were scooped from the sea without serious injury... and the uniforms worn by the Corpsmen on the ship were a mishmash of Combat ERDLs (period correct USMC) and 80's issue Woodland Camo BDUs (like Crockett's). 

Just like the fact that no-one could work undercover for years in LE with the exposure Crockett and Tubbs had around Miami, showing up at crime scenes with neckchain badges, shooting so many perps, testifying in court, etc..... the show is not based in reality. We just have to suspend disbelief and enjoy the storytelling and action an episode or two at a time I guess.

Kudos on the research and insight that went into all the discussions about Sonny's biographical timeline tho.

Yeah but I doubt most fans of the show would know the inconsistent details you mention in BITW, you and RobbieC obviously know your stuff when it comes to the military but 80%+ people wouldn't know the specific details.

I am sure if an ex-mobster like Sammy Gravano sat watching "The Sopranos" he would find flaws all over the place.

Edited August 25, 2023 by RedDragon86

[Robbie C.]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:22 PM, cybercop106 said:

Here I am, watching MV for the multi-umpteenth time and getting back on the forum... late to the discussion as usual.

There were a number of inconsistencies in the Back In The World episode beginning. Obviously a number of the wounded being triaged on the ship were Caucasians, dressed in various parts of military uniforms. But during April 29-30, 1975, the evac of Saigon (Operation Frequent Wind) the only casualties/injuries were Marine Corporals McMahon & Judge, killed instantly in a rocket attack on the DAO, and pilots Cpt Nystul and 1st Lt Shea (bodies never recovered) who crashed in the sea on a CH-46F chopper.  A few other Americans were scooped from the sea without serious injury... and the uniforms worn by the Corpsmen on the ship were a mishmash of Combat ERDLs (period correct USMC) and 80's issue Woodland Camo BDUs (like Crockett's). 

Just like the fact that no-one could work undercover for years in LE with the exposure Crockett and Tubbs had around Miami, showing up at crime scenes with neckchain badges, shooting so many perps, testifying in court, etc..... the show is not based in reality. We just have to suspend disbelief and enjoy the storytelling and action an episode or two at a time I guess.

Kudos on the research and insight that went into all the discussions about Sonny's biographical timeline tho.

The US was also out of Danang well before Stone could have reported any casualties. I went after Sonny's military background as both an intellectual exercise AND to counter some of the claims he was Special Forces being made by assorted fan sites. He's actually (as I mentioned earlier) identified as a Marine in the draft script of Back in the World. I also did it to construct a meaningful background I could use for fiction. Vietnam was (in theory) a big part of Sonny's background, and it always annoyed me they shortchanged it when compared to (say) Magnum PI or Simon and Simon. Or even Hill Street Blues.

[NeonHumidity]

Why give us his July 29 birthday, at all?

Personally, I feel like it took until internet-less Season 3 for someone to check the draft lottery records, have Sonny be born in 1951, and be so, so, so, so screwed by the July 1970 ("1971") draft.  

4????

When he was hoping to be a high draft pick, he obviously forgot to specify the "NFL" part...

4??? 

Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity

[Robbie C.]

12 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said:

Why give us his July 29 birthday, at all?

Personally, I feel like it took until internet-less Season 3 for someone to check the draft lottery records, have Sonny be born in 1951, and be so, so, so, so screwed by the July 1970 draft.  

4????

The lottery calls were low in 1970, and if he was drafted in 1970 he wouldn't have likely gone to Vietnam due to drawdowns. It's also specifically stated in "Buddies" that he came in country at Da Nang, which was used exclusively by the Marine Corps for their replacements. Army replacements entered South Vietnam around Saigon. The series never says he was drafted in any case.

Edited January 27 by Robbie C.

[NeonHumidity]

3 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

The lottery calls were low in 1970, and the combat presence was also low. It's also specifically stated in "Buddies" that he came in country at Da Nang, which was used exclusively by the Marine Corps for their replacements. Army replacements entered South Vietnam around Saigon. The series never says he was drafted in any case.

I'm not sure the lottery call was low in 1970 given it had only been established six months before, specifically to guarantee people would be inducted, and given the way people were still panicking, evading, and dodging. 

The official records say that they called "down" to 125.... and he would have been 4, which is pretty much "You're in the Army now, pal".

There's no particular reason he should have ended up in combat because of that, other than Sonny's not much of a rear-echelon guy by personality.  So he might indeed have volunteered for this or that to try and mitigate that gut-punch of a lottery number.

But the only significance his birthday would have would be for something like this, when it would be very very consequential.  They didn't give him a birthday where there was no chance of him ever being drafted for anything, that's for sure.

For extra fun, 4 is the number with the meaning of "death" in East Asian culture...

Edited January 28 by NeonHumidity