Character Musings - Gina and Trudy

[Robbie C.]

Often dismissed as window dressing for Vice, Gina and Trudy are both solid characters. They’re also not what I’d call finished characters.

Gina represents a sort of window into the past, both as Crockett’s one-time fling and as a refugee from Revolutionary Cuba.  She’s also the most maternal character on the show, always wanting to fix people (be it Crockett, Liam Neeson’s IRA terrorist, or any number of informants and victims). But she can never save Crockett, because she’s part of the undercover system that is slowly destroying his sense of self (as witnessed in the Burnett arc). Personally I always found Gina kind of stereotypical for a cop show, so she didn’t interest me much.

Trudy is sadly underdeveloped, perhaps more so than any other major character in the series. Unlike Gina she’s not especially maternal, and shows no inclination to get involved with her fellow cops in a romantic sense. We do see her as a strong character, normally confident in her own ability and capable of holding her own when things go bad. She’s also level-headed in a way Gina is not, and also skilled at gathering information (who usually finds stuff in the files?). I just wish they would have put more effort into Trudy. She’s got the skeleton of a strong, solid character who could have contributed a great deal to the show. She and Stan might have made good partners in the aftermath of Larry’s death.

Possibly the last in my little series. As you can guess, I'm interested in both character backgrounds and what they could represent in the imagery of Vice. Since Mann is very into symbolic meanings and images, I think this is an area that is often ignored with his characters and plots, but is significant.

[mjcmmv]

33 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Often dismissed as window dressing for Vice, Gina and Trudy are both solid characters. They’re also not what I’d call finished characters.

Gina represents a sort of window into the past, both as Crockett’s one-time fling and as a refugee from Revolutionary Cuba.  She’s also the most maternal character on the show, always wanting to fix people (be it Crockett, Liam Neeson’s IRA terrorist, or any number of informants and victims). But she can never save Crockett, because she’s part of the undercover system that is slowly destroying his sense of self (as witnessed in the Burnett arc). Personally I always found Gina kind of stereotypical for a cop show, so she didn’t interest me much.

Trudy is sadly underdeveloped, perhaps more so than any other major character in the series. Unlike Gina she’s not especially maternal, and shows no inclination to get involved with her fellow cops in a romantic sense. We do see her as a strong character, normally confident in her own ability and capable of holding her own when things go bad. She’s also level-headed in a way Gina is not, and also skilled at gathering information (who usually finds stuff in the files?). I just wish they would have put more effort into Trudy. She’s got the skeleton of a strong, solid character who could have contributed a great deal to the show. She and Stan might have made good partners in the aftermath of Larry’s death.

Possibly the last in my little series. As you can guess, I'm interested in both character backgrounds and what they could represent in the imagery of Vice. Since Mann is very into symbolic meanings and images, I think this is an area that is often ignored with his characters and plots, but is significant.

Very interesting! I think the female characters in any TV Cop show in the 80's was underdeveloped and under appreciated! As much as I disliked the 2006 MV movie, I liked the fact that their Gina was represented as a much stronger, independent woman who could keep pace with her male counterparts. I think Gina and Trudy from the TV Show could have made more significant contributions  if they had been given half the chance! 

Edited March 22, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Robbie C.]

14 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

Very interesting! I think the female characters in any TV Cop show in the 80's was underdeveloped and under appreciated! As much as I disliked the 2006 MV movie, I liked the fact that their Gina was represented as a much stronger, independent woman who could keep pace with her male counterparts. I think Gina and Trudy from the TV Show could have made more significant contributions  if they had been given half the chance! 

Thanks! I obviously agree, especially when it comes to Trudy. They had her positioned to be a strong woman, a great counterpart to Tubbs or Crockett, and then totally dropped the ball. They'd saddled Gina with a bit too much baggage before the show began for that to work for her (sadly), but with Trudy it was a missed opportunity.

[Bren10]

On the surface I saw Gina and Trudy as the ethnic and gender counterparts to Crckett and Tubbs.  I think Gina was the one romantic interest who could actually understand Crockett, but as you say she's part of the destructive cycle Sonny is caught in.  I think Gina also had more to prove (Give a Little) and was willing to take more risks (Give a Little and Bought and Paid For)  whereas Trudy was more secure with her position and had more of a drive to enforce justice (Hell Hath No Fury).  They both had romantic problems in The Dutch Oven and Irish Eyes but somehow I don't see Trudy putting herself in the position Gina was in with Sean Caroon.  On a personal note, there was always something about Trudy that made me sympathize with her a lot more.  I think there's an innocence or naivete’ to her that the other members of the team don't have.  In other words she was never entirely jaded by the job and I find that endearing.  No she didn't show a lot of obvious romantic interest in team members but there were little flirtations and side comments she would make towards Tubbs but he simply didn't reciprocate or would act oblivious.  I remember her lighting up once when Rico approached her nicely only for him to ask her to get him something.  Her disappointment was immediately apparent.  I always wondereed why the show didn't at least try putting them together once.  All I can reason is that maybe the producers and writers thought it too obvious a move to put the Caucasian man and woman together and the African-American man and woman together.  Oddly when the show was off the air for a couple of years and there was no home media or repeats, I thought I remembered them being involved and if I was to ask other casual viewers they might have said the same thing.

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

Thanks! I obviously agree, especially when it comes to Trudy. They had her positioned to be a strong woman, a great counterpart to Tubbs or Crockett, and then totally dropped the ball. They'd saddled Gina with a bit too much baggage before the show began for that to work for her (sadly), but with Trudy it was a missed opportunity.

I loved Dutch Oven because it showed the struggle this woman cop was having with her role on the team and Crockett took her by the hand and read her the riot act! He told her,  "You had one move to make and you made it!" -that is one of my absolute favorite quotes in the series. Then, in Bullet for Crockett, when Trudy thanked Sonny in the ICU for his counsel during that time when she was doubting herself-that was powerful and said a lot about how Crockett respected her! 

[mjcmmv]

8 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

On the surface I saw Gina and Trudy as the ethnic and gender counterparts to Crckett and Tubbs.  I think Gina was the one romantic interest who could actually understand Crockett, but as you say she's part of the destructive cycle Sonny is caught in.  I think Gina also had more to prove (Give a Little) and was willing to take more risks (Give a Little and Bought and Paid For)  whereas Trudy was more secure with her position and had more of a drive to enforce justice (Hell Hath No Fury).  They both had romantic problems in The Dutch Oven and Irish Eyes but somehow I don't see Trudy putting herself in the position Gina was in with Sean Caroon.  On a personal note, there was always something about Trudy that made me sympathize with her a lot more.  I think there's an innocence or naivete’ to her that the other members of the team don't have.  In other words she was never entirely jaded by the job and I find that endearing.  No she didn't show a lot of obvious romantic interest in team members but there were little flirtations and side comments she would make towards Tubbs but he simply didn't reciprocate or would act oblivious.  I remember her lighting up once when Rico approached her nicely only for him to ask her to get him something.  Her disappointment was immediately apparent.  I always wondereed why the show didn't at least try putting them together once.  All I can reason is that maybe the producers and writers thought it too obvious a move to put the Caucasian man and woman together and the African-American man and woman together.  Oddly when the show was off the air for a couple of years and there was no home media or repeats, I thought I remembered them being involved and if I was to ask other casual viewers they might have said the same thing.

I also liked Trudy's character a lot and was disappointed the writers didn't appreciate a good thing when they saw it. I tried to think about detective shows in the 80's that showed strong women characters. We had some: Maddie Hayes in Moonlighting; Cagney and Lacey; Jennifer Hart in Hart to Hart; Laura Holt on Remington Steel.

But Gina and Trudy were in the trenches; play-acting for the most part as prostitutes. Those other shows didn't touch on that aspect at all! Gina and Trudy put their lives on the line whenever they went out there and I was routing for them all the way! 

[Bren10]

Maybe that's why I'm not as hard on Missing Hours as everybody else.  Don't get me wrong though, I know it's not good.  But Olivia Brown does the best she can with it.

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Bren10 said:

Maybe that's why I'm not as hard on Missing Hours as everybody else.  Don't get me wrong though, I know it's not good.  But Olivia Brown does the best she can with it.

Agreed! It was a crazy story-line and she was the one shining light in that disaster!

[Bren10]

There's Chris Rock too.  What a bizarre footnote in his career.

[mjcmmv]

6 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

There's Chris Rock too.  What a bizarre footnote in his career.

I know! I'm sure that wasn't a footnote on his resume!!

 

[Bren10]

People may find this insane, but I'll take Missing Hours over Made For Each Other any night of the week.  If I had stayed home Friday night to watch that I would've wanted to shoot the TV just like Switek's beloved Elvis.  At least Missing Hours has C&T involved.

[mjcmmv]

Just now, Bren10 said:

People may find this insane, but I'll take Missing Hours over Made For Each Other any night of the week.  If I had stayed home Friday night to watch that I would've wanted to shoot the TV just like Switek's beloved Elvis.  At least Missing Hours has C&T involved.

I never liked Made For Each Other. But, it may take several viewings for me to appreciate Missing Hours. I worried that this episode and others such as Cows of October and The Big Thaw, scared the fans away and hurt the ratings. Then, some of the Season Five episodes, such as Leap of Faith and Miracle Man, definitely sealed their fate!

[mjcmmv]

10 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

People may find this insane, but I'll take Missing Hours over Made For Each Other any night of the week.  If I had stayed home Friday night to watch that I would've wanted to shoot the TV just like Switek's beloved Elvis.  At least Missing Hours has C&T involved.

BTW, I don't think you're insane!!! Maybe you'll influence me to see this episode in a different light! I'll let you know!

[Robbie C.]

I still take "Made for Each Other" as Stan and Larry's version of "Nobody Lives Forever." It's got its flaws, but at least it was speaking to both of them as characters. I also didn't strongly dislike "Missing Hours." But C&T certainly couldn't save "The Great McCarthy."

[mjcmmv]

Just now, Robbie C. said:

I still take "Made for Each Other" as Stan and Larry's version of "Nobody Lives Forever." It's got its flaws, but at least it was speaking to both of them as characters. I also didn't strongly dislike "Missing Hours." But C&T certainly couldn't save "The Great McCarthy."

The Great McCarthy was definitely an episode that could grate on your nerves. BUT, look at the boat race and Sonny's pool game! I think those two scenes should be a top ten in the episode scene ratings!

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, Bren10 said:

On the surface I saw Gina and Trudy as the ethnic and gender counterparts to Crckett and Tubbs.  I think Gina was the one romantic interest who could actually understand Crockett, but as you say she's part of the destructive cycle Sonny is caught in.  I think Gina also had more to prove (Give a Little) and was willing to take more risks (Give a Little and Bought and Paid For)  whereas Trudy was more secure with her position and had more of a drive to enforce justice (Hell Hath No Fury).  They both had romantic problems in The Dutch Oven and Irish Eyes but somehow I don't see Trudy putting herself in the position Gina was in with Sean Caroon.  On a personal note, there was always something about Trudy that made me sympathize with her a lot more.  I think there's an innocence or naivete’ to her that the other members of the team don't have.  In other words she was never entirely jaded by the job and I find that endearing.  No she didn't show a lot of obvious romantic interest in team members but there were little flirtations and side comments she would make towards Tubbs but he simply didn't reciprocate or would act oblivious.  I remember her lighting up once when Rico approached her nicely only for him to ask her to get him something.  Her disappointment was immediately apparent.  I always wondereed why the show didn't at least try putting them together once.  All I can reason is that maybe the producers and writers thought it too obvious a move to put the Caucasian man and woman together and the African-American man and woman together.  Oddly when the show was off the air for a couple of years and there was no home media or repeats, I thought I remembered them being involved and if I was to ask other casual viewers they might have said the same thing.

I never really considered Trudy naive exactly; that was more how I saw Gina. To me Trudy was appealing because she was able to see beyond the job. She always seemed to realize there was more to life than what she saw every day and somehow rise above it. And maybe in a strange kind of way that's why she ended up in "Missing Hours"? Since she's the only one who looked beyond the job it would make sense she'd get mixed up in something like that. 

[Robbie C.]

2 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

The Great McCarthy was definitely an episode that could grate on your nerves. BUT, look at the boat race and Sonny's pool game! I think those two scenes should be a top ten in the episode scene ratings!

The pool game I'd agree with, but I actually found the boat stuff pretty dull. It was like they ran out of things to say so they just recycled boat footage until the end. But to each their own.

[mjcmmv]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

The pool game I'd agree with, but I actually found the boat stuff pretty dull. It was like they ran out of things to say so they just recycled boat footage until the end. But to each their own.

I guess the Jan Hammer music got my blood boiling!! LOL!

[Bren10]

I found The Great McCarthy intriguing because the team sytematically made a bust without shots fired.

[mjcmmv]

6 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

I found The Great McCarthy intriguing because the team sytematically made a bust without shots fired.

I never thought of that, but it's worth considering! 

[Robbie C.]

4 hours ago, mjcmmv said:

I know! I'm sure that wasn't a footnote on his resume!!

 

He's still got "New Jack City" to live down... (I do like the movie, though...mostly for Ice T)

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:01 PM, mjcmmv said:

We had some: Maddie Hayes in Moonlighting; Cagney and Lacey; Jennifer Hart in Hart to Hart; Laura Holt on Remington Steel.

Dee Dee McCall in Hunter too