The Evan Issue

[Robbie C.]

6 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I believe he's very good at repressing his feelings, and that may have brought him to a point where he doesn't consciously feel the emotional reactions that someone would who is less guarded with his emotions would.  This disconnection you mention isn't something that had occurred to me before (at least not on the global basis you're talking about).  But it does make sense. 

The reason I say people from his past is we DO see him react strongly to things that happen in the moment. Trudy in Dutch Oven. The kid he shoots. Tubbs being beaten. The entire episode Death and the Lady. But if it's someone from his actual past (Robbie, the whole Evan thing, Stone) the reaction is very muted. It seems to me like they had the character disconnect from anything that happened before he joined Metro Dade, and even more specifically before he moved to Vice. He feels pain for Lou and Eddie, but even Hackman seems to generate more annoyance and anger (he did con Sonny) UNTIL he kills Caitlin. Then all bets are off. It's not like Tubbs, who remains deeply connected to and motivated by his past, or Castillo who is who he is because of his past and remains deeply tied to it.

[Bren10]

That's a possible defense mechanism for Sonny. He can't allow painful and disturbing moments from his past to distract him or he can't perform his job to the utmost of his ability. Tubbs and Castillo were also highly motivated by their recent pasts to do what they were doing. I don't see that so much with Sonny therefore he has more of a natural disconnect. I see this reflected by the fact that he lives on a boat, which is not grounded, floating and always moving and can be relocated at anytime much like Crockett himself. He is not fixed except to Miami itself.

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, Bren10 said:

That's a possible defense mechanism for Sonny. He can't allow painful and disturbing moments from his past to distract him or he can't perform his job to the utmost of his ability. Tubbs and Castillo were also highly motivated by their recent pasts to do what they were doing. I don't see that so much with Sonny therefore he has more of a natural disconnect. I see this reflected by the fact that he lives on a boat, which is not grounded, floating and always moving and can be relocated at anytime much like Crockett himself. He is not fixed except to Miami itself.

I agree, and that's why Evan works for me more as a study of how Even reacted to Mike. Sonny's reaction really doesn't matter. I think in a way he might have been confused by Evan because of Evan's inability to just leave it behind (hence the "I can't" comment...Sonny really can't react to something from the past because it has no real meaning for him by this point). But his reaction to present events is usually very strong (almost irrationally so at times), serving as a hint for how the writers want the viewer to react to a situation. And that reaction can and does interfere with his ability to do his job (sometimes enhancing it, other times possibly not so much). But in Evan he's more a mechanism to bring Evan's guilt and rage to the fore, something that wouldn't work with Tubbs or Castillo.

Sonny actually makes much more sense when you start looking at him as sort of an avatar into undercover and Miami and less as a fully-detailed character. I don't think he started off that way (Yerkovich), but I do think he ended up that way, at least in no small measure.

[vicegirl85]

24 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

(snipped)But if it's someone from his actual past (Robbie, the whole Evan thing, Stone) the reaction is very muted. It seems to me like they had the character disconnect from anything that happened before he joined Metro Dade, and even more specifically before he moved to Vice. He feels pain for Lou and Eddie, but even Hackman seems to generate more annoyance and anger (he did con Sonny) UNTIL he kills Caitlin. Then all bets are off. It's not like Tubbs, who remains deeply connected to and motivated by his past, or Castillo who is who he is because of his past and remains deeply tied to it.

Robbie C, you have introduced a way of looking at Sonny as a character in a way I had never considered before.  I don't disagree, but Robbie and Ira Stone are two of the characters I was thinking about who (for me) were examples of Crockett's emotional connection to his past, and to past friends.  Also I thought his reaction to Scotty Wheeler (in the pilot) and John Malone (Home Invaders) showed emotional connections to his past.  OK, I could be looking at those wrong!  Food for thought, and needing to re-watch some episodes (oh the hardship!)  For me, he is repressing memories and connections, but I have not previously thought he suppressed them to such an extent that they no longer have meaning for him.  

Certainly, Wheeler and Malone both disappointed Crockett and he lost the respect and affection he had previously felt for them.  As the show went on, and especially during the last 2 seasons, we saw very few examples of people from his past re-enter his life.  And given that he has lived in Miami for perhaps most of his life, it seems like that's a scenario that can support your (and Bren 10) arguments that he is not moored to human connections due to the loss of his identity as a real person the farther he got into his undercover persona.  

 

[Bren10]

I agree to an extent. But Sonny does refuse to forgive Evan as soon as he sees him. He requests to be removed from the case and even moves to attack him before Evan pulls the pistol and the bullet with Sonny's name on it. To me that flies in the face of Sonny's ability to simply leave it behind and expect Evan to do the same. He clearly does feel something. Evan's presence is a reminder of his own self-perceived failure and that can get in the way of the present as we discussed. Sonny's reaction to the present situation though tells me he can't let go and he won't give Evan a pass. He wants Evan to pay somehow, though not by suicide or death. He can't do anything to him himself so he punishes him by absenting him from his life up to this point, and he would go on doing it if Castillo gave him the OK.

[Robbie C.]

But when we look at the return of Evan and both Wheeler and Malone, those are things from Sonny's more immediate past. Clearly he connects again with Robbie, but there's also a very strong sense that he's been out of contact with him for years. And Stone is to my mind a parasite. But his reaction to the death of Robbie always struck me as thin, especially considering their Vietnam connection. For me Sonny's demarcation line for past connections seems to be Metro Dade. People from his life before that really don't seem to register much, and even people from his early days on the force don't seem to count as much.

This is, of course, just how I view Crockett in light of the issues I've found trying to chart his background and make sense in my writer's head of how they developed him when compared to the other two leads. Usually the 'star' is more detailed than everyone else, but here we have the reverse.

[Bren10]

Hey, I got the impression that Robbie lived! Don't tell me he's dead! Doesn't Sonny say something like "you'll be alright" implying it's a fleshwound?

[Robbie C.]

Just now, Bren10 said:

Hey, I got the impression that Robbie lived! Don't tell me he's dead! Doesn't Sonny say something like "you'll be alright" implying it's a fleshwound?

Either way, he disappears. I haven't seen the episode for over two years (the joys of moving and not really unpacking yet), so I could be mis-remembering the ending (when I last watched it I was focusing on the Vietnam service stuff). Still...we never see him again. He's never even mentioned again. Yet he's the only real friend of Sonny's we see from his college and Vietnam days. And with the kid and everything you'd think he'd pop up at least once.

[Bren10]

I know the source may be questionable, but the Miami Vice wiki says Robbie survived. I prefer to think of it that way. Remember he just had a kid.

[Robbie C.]

1 minute ago, Bren10 said:

I know the source may be questionable, but the Miami Vice wiki says Robbie survived. I prefer to think of it that way. Remember he just had a kid.

I know he did. And as I recall he wanted Crockett to be the godfather. Which is why it was interesting to me that he never showed up, even in mention, again. I don't even think it drew a clip in the "Bullet" episode.

[Bren10]

Well we do see him in Sonny's locker. The wound he suffered didn't look that bad and I think killing him would make it too much of an Evan retread. If he's incarcerated it could be a reason for not seeing him. Plus James Remar may have been hard to get later. He was originally cast as Hicks in Aliens you know. And you don't really want to be dead, do you Robbie C?

[vicegirl85]

15 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Hey, I got the impression that Robbie lived! Don't tell me he's dead! Doesn't Sonny say something like "you'll be alright" implying it's a fleshwound?

LOL I do think Crockett has the ability to be very reassuring when trying to comfort a wounded buddy.  Remember he basically said the same thing to Ira Stone.  Whether this is actually a valid medical judgment is questionable... 

[Robbie C.]

4 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Well we do see him in Sonny's locker. The wound he suffered didn't look that bad and I think killing him would make it too much of an Evan retread. If he's incarcerated it could be a reason for not seeing him. Plus James Remar may have been hard to get later. He was originally cast as Hicks in Aliens you know. And you don't really want to be dead, do you Robbie C?

Yet he still doesn't appear in the extended flashback episode as far as I can remember. Just interesting. And I'd be careful considering your username is a discontinued firearm...

[Bren10]

The first time he was right about Stone's diagnosis. So he gets some points for that  

Edited April 7, 2019 by Bren10

[Kladdagh]

Evan ... What can I say ... It is one of my favorite episode from the show ... Love it ...

[mjcmmv]

1 hour ago, Bren10 said:

Hey, I got the impression that Robbie lived! Don't tell me he's dead! Doesn't Sonny say something like "you'll be alright" implying it's a fleshwound?

I thought he lived, too. Hope I'm right!

[shallowdraft]

Rico walks in and sees Sonny and Evan embraced, as Evan has completely broken down. Evan sees Rico and straightens himself out and leaves the room.

Rico: What the hell was that all about? 

Sonny: Dancing. Mostly dancing.

(Police Academy reference for comedic effect)