Robbie C. Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I know we've got some writers lurking around here, and I thought it might be nice if we had a discussion thread or two of our own. This one's about MV's writing (the show's, not ours). Vice, on the whole, had erratic writing. When it was good it was very good, but when it was bad... I watch a number of shows that have very tight writing, and one thing I've noticed is it's easier to craft fan fiction for shows that have strong characters and weak or erratic writing than it is for shows that have strong characters AND strong writing. That's because good writing leaves no holes, especially if the show follows plot arcs. You simply don't have many gaps to fill if you're trying to write something that happens during the course of the series. And a strongly written show answers ALLL its outstanding questions and plots when the series wraps. Vice's erratic writing is a gift to us because it leaves so many things to explore. Going back a few years, Star Trek did the same thing...not because it was badly written but because the episode model left so many "voyages" undocumented. A five-year mission compressed into three seasons left a lot to work with, as the did the strong cast of characters. Jump forward and we hit The Shield, which in my view is one of the best written police shows ever made. But the writing there is so tight you have to go back to before the show begins to find room to work with if you want to use more than a handful of characters. Doesn't make for much solid fan fiction, but it is the mark of strong, focused writing for the show. With Vice we get the best of both worlds: strong characters (although not well developed in many cases) and plot gaps big enough to drive loaded semis through with room to spare. Has anyone else experienced this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I do agree. It's hard to find a great deal of really riveting fanfic about MV, but there is a lot of variety. Some takes place during the timeline of the series; I have read other fics that take place during Crockett's or Castillo's time in Southeast Asia; others follow after the ending of Freefall. Several of the authors are excellent storytellers. There are also a surprisingly large number of slash fics putting Crockett with either Tubbs or Castillo. I haven't read them--as soon as I figured that out I had to stop reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Slash is just another narrative, one that's usually driven by some kind of agenda in my view. You can spin slash from just about anything, which is one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to it. But Vice leaves legitimate gaps in the narrative, and far too many blank spaces in the characters' histories. That's what opens it up for writers as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 Oh, I agree! But I was very surprised when I discovered it. 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: (snipped)But Vice leaves legitimate gaps in the narrative, and far too many blank spaces in the characters' histories. That's what opens it up for writers as far as I'm concerned. So true! For example, we've talked about the relationship between Sonny and Caitlin moving so quickly, whereas perhaps there was a month or two instead of a week or two. The show never specified, so there's room for some storytelling there in order to flesh out the relationship and let it develop a bit more believably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said: Oh, I agree! But I was very surprised when I discovered it. So true! For example, we've talked about the relationship between Sonny and Caitlin moving so quickly, whereas perhaps there was a month or two instead of a week or two. The show never specified, so there's room for some storytelling there in order to flesh out the relationship and let it develop a bit more believably. Personally I always thought from narrative clues there were at least a couple of months involved. No case moves as fast as they showed... Time in Vice was always a very flexible thing (one of the hidden messages, perhaps, of Missing Hours). The slash thing doesn't really surprise me. There's always a segment that's fascinated with authority figure relationships or just can't comprehend that men can be close friends without some kind of sexual element involved (sort of an extension of the "men and women can't be just friends" narrative). I always found it a rather cheap cop-out, but that's just me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Robbie C. said: I know we've got some writers lurking around here, and I thought it might be nice if we had a discussion thread or two of our own. This one's about MV's writing (the show's, not ours). With Vice we get the best of both worlds: strong characters (although not well developed in many cases) and plot gaps big enough to drive loaded semis through with room to spare. Has anyone else experienced this? Great Topic! I agree there are lots of opportunities to expand on MV Plots and character development. I've spent a lot of time doing it and I never lack material! The Caitlin/Sonny whirlwind romance Vicegirl 85 mentioned is a great example of a plot gap. Also, Tubb's baby son! They could have done a lot with that! What about that reference to Sonny being shot when he was in Robbery? He had a confrontation with the cop in charge of the young detectives in Leap of Faith over this event and I would have loved to have found out what really happened. As weak as the writing was for Missing Hours and a few others, I was really disappointed in how the handled Bullet for Crockett. I'm in the medical field and watching some of the footage they used in the OR, and the ridiculous conversations with the surgeon, just made me cringe! ("The bullet is in his spine" and next we hear, "The bullet has moved closer to the spine"? They couldn't even get the diagnosis straight!!) As far as character development goes, Trudy, and to some extent, Gina were never really explored the way they deserved. Even Castillo could have been fleshed out a little more. Fans enjoy putting their own spin on the show with lots of "could have been" moments. It's very satisfying to create your own closure, even though you'll never see it on the screen! Edited May 23, 2019 by mjcmmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, vicegirl85 said: I do agree. It's hard to find a great deal of really riveting fanfic about MV, but there is a lot of variety. Some takes place during the timeline of the series; I have read other fics that take place during Crockett's or Castillo's time in Southeast Asia; others follow after the ending of Freefall. Several of the authors are excellent storytellers. There are also a surprisingly large number of slash fics putting Crockett with either Tubbs or Castillo. I haven't read them--as soon as I figured that out I had to stop reading! Not a fan of slash, either! Back in the 90's and probably up until 2008 or so, there were a lot more sites with MV fiction. Some have disappeared and others were probably taken down when fans stopped contributing. Fortunately, Miami Vice Chronicles is flourishing! It has "everything" Miami Vice related and is a great site for Fan Fiction. Edited May 23, 2019 by mjcmmv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 If you haven't read it yet, I'd strongly recommend Steven Sanders' "Miami Vice." It's part of the TV Milestones series and has some good commentary on Vice from both a visual and writing standpoint. Sanders is a fan of Vice, but he's not a fanboy, and is (IMO) very even-handed with his evaluation of the series from a number of perspectives. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Robbie C. said: If you haven't read it yet, I'd strongly recommend Steven Sanders' "Miami Vice." It's part of the TV Milestones series and has some good commentary on Vice from both a visual and writing standpoint. Sanders is a fan of Vice, but he's not a fanboy, and is (IMO) very even-handed with his evaluation of the series from a number of perspectives. I haven't read it. Is it still in print? If not, I may be able to get in on EBAY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie C. Posted May 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 It is. $20 on Amazon. Here 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcmmv Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Robbie C. said: It is. $20 on Amazon. Here Thanks! I appreciate the link, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) I read the book of Steven Sanders and found it very interessting! I found a link, where you could now read the whole book on Google Play for free. Three weeks ago I payed about 12 Dollars. https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=ZH3SyNsCj_EC&hl=de&pg=GBS.PP1 Edited June 6, 2019 by Glades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Maybe you were able to read the whole thing because you had already purchased it? I tried just now and only the first 32 pages were available for free. However, it definitely got my attention and now I'll have to check it out on Amazon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 vor 17 Minuten schrieb vicegirl85: Maybe you were able to read the whole thing because you had already purchased it? I tried just now and only the first 32 pages were available for free. However, it definitely got my attention and now I'll have to check it out on Amazon! I haven´t thought of that, but of course, you are right! Yes, first time I had a preview as you describe. To buy the paperbook for me would have been much more expansive than to buy the e-book.So I tooked the e-book. Maybe this is different in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 No, it's about twice as much for the paperback here, too. I'm debating, especially since it's such a short book. While I'd like to have the paperback, I don't think it's worth twice the price to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glades Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 For me the paperback would have been 40€, about 42-44 Dollar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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