Keeping Calderon longer

[Noggie]

Maybe this has been talked about before. I was reading a review of the blu rays somewhere and the reviewer wondered why Calderon wasn’t kept around as a villain throughout the series. I kind of thought that myself. Have him in the background pulling strings but untouchable. He was a great character and it would’ve been nice to have a recurring plot pop up. They dropped the ball with Frank Zappa’s character.  They didn’t do much with Caldeon’s son either. It would’ve been nice to have the continuity of a recurring threat  

On the other hand, they probably didn’t want the show to feel like Hawaii 5-O with Wo Fat as a recurring character. They probably went for what might’ve been a more realistic ending for Calderon. 

Would keeping Calderon around longer have been beneficial?

Edited July 24, 2019 by Noggie

[Robbie C.]

I don't think Vice ever had enough long-term writing planning to make this possible. They had a number of choices here, honestly, but Lombard was the only one who really stuck around and that was more due to the actor's ties to Mann than a plan (at least in my view). And if Mann viewed each episode as making an hour-long film, he would have been focused on other things (and never seemed to take much interest in the writing in any case).

I don't know that Calderone per se would have worked, but a character (or better yet an organization) like him would have been beneficial. But that would have required consistent writing to manage story arcs as opposed to one-off episodes, and Vice never really got the hang of arcs (although there were notable exceptions in the last two seasons).

[mjcmmv]

3 minutes ago, Noggie said:

Malone this has been talked about before. I was reading a review of the blu rays somewhere and the reviewer wondered why Calderon wasn’t kept around as a villain throughout the series. I kind of thought that myself. Have him in the background pulling strings but untouchable. He was a great character and it would’ve been nice to have a recurring plot pop up. They dropped the ball with Frank Zappa’s character.  They didn’t do much with Caldeon’s son either. It would’ve been nice to have the continuity of a recurring threat  

On the other hand, they probably didn’t want the show to feel like Hawaii 5-O with Wo Fat as a recurring character. They probably went for what might’ve been a more realistic ending for Calderon. 

Would keeping Calderon around longer have been beneficial?

I never thought of that. There's great potential here and plenty of good juicy plots that fell by the wayside. It's a shame, also, because the actors who played these villains, were terrific actors. 

 

[Glades]

Some thoughts:

I read in a book (don´t remember which) that it was typical in real life the villains changing often. So one cop could do undercover work for a long time without being recognized by the villains.

Being to often the same villains would be a big problem for the show with the undercover theme because the villains would know Crockettt and Tubbs as cops.

For me it is an important part of the series that all the successes of the team are somehow in vain, because new criminals always follow. It's actually a kind of main statement. Crockett and Tubbs talked about this for example in "Line Of Fire".

Edited July 23, 2019 by Glades

[vicegirl85]

3 hours ago, Glades said:

Some thoughts:

I read in a book (don´t remember which) that it was typical in real life the villains changing often. So one cop could do undercover work for a long time without being recognized by the villains.

Being to often the same villains would be a big problem for the show with the undercover theme because the villains would know Crockettt and Tubbs as cops.

For me it is an important part of the series that all the successes of the team are somehow in vain, because new criminals always follow. It's actually a kind of main statement. Crockett and Tubbs talked about this for example in "Line Of Fire".

Good points, Glades!

I would have liked to see more recurring villains/organizations, too, and always blamed the writers for the lack of continuity.  But what you said makes sense, especially about the successes being in vain.  

[Robbie C.]

The lack of continuity I usually fault the series for is the squad itself. As for bad guys, enough of them got away an arc or two regarding them wouldn’t have been out of place. I suspect it was simply too much for a series based more on the visual.  

[MrsEvanFreed]

Seeing how Miguel Pinero's health had deteriorated between seasons one and two, they made the right

choice with Calderon.

 

He was barely recognizable in Prodigal Son.

Edited July 23, 2019 by MrsEvanFreed

[Bren10]

Mann essentially did this sort of thing with Ray Luca in Crime Story. That was good for that show but the same philosophy would not have fit Vice.

[Robbie C.]

1 hour ago, Bren10 said:

Mann essentially did this sort of thing with Ray Luca in Crime Story. That was good for that show but the same philosophy would not have fit Vice.

True enough, I suppose. Mann also had a much more personal interest in Crime Story. And with Vice's focus on flash over substance any sort of continuity of that kind was always going to be a challenge.

[Bren10]

Realistically speaking, the only way to keep Frank Zappa's character recurring would have been not to have Zappa portray him in the first place, because he would never do television on a regular basis. That would kind of defeat the effect of that character unless they found another iconic celebrity who would actually do it. I do agree not enough was done with Calderone's son, especially when considering what Leguizamo would later demonstrate in terms of talent.

[Noggie]

I remember Crime Story and the Luca character appeared a lot if not nearly every episode. That’s not what I’d want and  I wouldn’t want modern continuity where the season is basically one long story. I just wish there had been a bit more connecting episodes.   The very few times a character referenced a previous episode or a character returned, it added so much to me. 

I never expected Zappa to return for a serious of episodes but that was a loose end that should’ve been returned to at least once.   Leguizamo was completely wasted. The season 3 wrap up of the entire “Calderon story” fell flat to me. I remember watching it with my mother and she basically said “he leaves the note at the end of season 2 and then they have a Wild West shootout in season 3?”   Kind of a weak conclusion. 

It added so much to me when there was a repeat character. I just wish there had been more of that. 

[Bren10]

There's also a danger of making Miami appear too small if there's too many reoccurring characters ala Gotham City or something, which I'm sure the producers did not want. You can also alienate new viewers that way.