New York's Keeper

[Augusta]

Should we newcomers get an introduction out of the way? OK, here's mine.

 

I constantly say Vice has the identical power and importance as Star Wars: A New Hope. But while I was an avid collector of Star Wars stuff, I was never a Vice collector--not one single T-shirt, poster or memorabilia, no sunglasses, no interest in sitting in sports cars.

I'm a New York resident, in a current time when cheap cars are being jury-rigged to go recklessly fast and noisy, for illegal street racing again. (Some of us have fine performance cars BOUGHT from the performance makers---so I have a sort of disdain for the hootchy-neighborhood hot rod craze around me right now; we don't like to see a car driven like Vin-Diesel goofs, and we don't like the property damage)

 

I personally thanked God for the time period Miami Vice arrived in. Living with my mom at the time, the Dade County cops were my escape from mom's Dallas/Knot Landing torture.

 

I side with the folks who make the argument that Miami Vice was never over the top with its portrayal of the city of Miami, and that it was actually RIGHT ON target about the atmosphere and the coke playground of the city in the 80's.

 

I never picked sides with whether the primary protagonist character was Sonny or Rico. I don't know if it was deliberately realized by the actor, or required by the director, but I think it was excellent that Sonny was played as comfortably undercover in a city he knows well, while Rico was played as devil-may-care on the surface but at any moment becoming wide-eyed edgy in a city that's always kept potentially new to him throughout the series.

　

I never realized the creators-vs-studio politics that changed and eventually lowered Vice off my television screen. I just naively thought I'd gotten tired of the show. I suspect a lot of viewers wrongly believed the reason it got canceled is becasue we just "grew out" of the show, like we did with most series eventually.

 

I always liked Sonny's first car over the second car. I always liked his SECOND cig-boat over the first.

 

I never realized I wasn't looking at the REAL car (Jim Rockford's car was a REAL Pontiac, not a replica, so I just figured Crockett's black spider was a real one too).

 

I liked Gregory Sierra's contributions just as much as James Edward's. BOTH were great in-character presentations, and I only wish the show could have somehow fit in more Sierra time before the Olmos changeover.

 

I condemn Dick Wolf's insertion into the series. Artistically the wrong and incompetent decision the studio made.

 

And Trudy was the one I had the chauvinist eye on. (Gina was a lovely sweetheart, but Trudy was the gal who could always make my male college mind sinfully weak).

　

　

I never saw ALL the episodes of Vice in my 80's watching. So I seriously have NO favorite episode.  But the "clarity of theme" shown in the first 3 seasons etched me enough that I couldn't ever feel comfortable with seasons 4 and 5.

When I finally started collecting Universal's early dvd sets, selectively Season 1-3 was all I wanted to own.   Picture transfer was really admirable, and I LIKED the art designs on Universal's cases.

But I have just invested in the Mill Creek Box (Oct 24 2016 distribution), and I know it's going to be like watching the show from birth again. I sampled the Rockford Files DVD set that Mill Creek did, and it's the only version that finally makes you squint the way you should when seeing sun-sparkling LA.

 

I'm not a BluRay fan, and I'm not wild about artificially "mocking up" an honest mono program into a stereo experience, or an original stereo recording into DTS versions either).  I have a phenomenal Runco media screen, with some select HDMI and sound cables, so I'm quite satisfied when I find a great DVD transfer that's worth braggin about.

I still have the Universal version DVD cases, so I'm seriously considering reusing them, and ditching Mill Creek's hobo-quality cardboard container.

Thanks for having me!

[Bren10]

Hello and welcome. I agree with the Star Wars comparison. I've brought that up a couple times too. I'm a big fan/occasional collector myself. Han shot first 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Bren10

[Ferrariman]

As I like to say, welcome back to the 80"s!   

Have to agree with you on a few things. 1st car, 2nd boat.  Season 4 was the turning point for me. Still some good strong episodes, just not as many of them. Season 5 lost the feel of the show because of the departure of Jan Hammer. I know he left early in season 4 and I always thought John Petersen was the perfect replacement but sadly the powers that be had other ideas. I had heard rumors that DJ got Truman the job but he just wasn't right for "Vice"  what are your thoughts on this?

Anyway, welcome again and if you need any help just give a shout.  Enjoy!

[Dadrian]

Welcome to the site, @Augusta! 

[jpaul1]

i agree on Trudy. but i disagree a bit on the fact that blu-ray are not worth it. blu-ray version is way above (IMO) to DVD. i mean the image is much clearer. you can nearly see Miami like it was back then. anyways have a sit, and have fun

[Dadrian]

Blu Ray vs DVD on Smuggler’s Blues alone is worth the entire purchase of the Blu Rays. I have both, but I find myself watching the Blu Rays exclusively these days. 

[airtommy]

Fantastic first post!  Welcome!

[miamijimf]

Welcome aboard!

 

[Matt5]

Welcome to a great site about a great show

[Augusta]

On 2 January 2020 at 12:04 PM, Bren10 said:

Hello and welcome. I agree with the Star Wars comparison. I've brought that up a couple times too. I'm a big fan/occasional collector myself. Han shot first 

Han DID shoot first, and it's better that way.  He knew Greedo wasn't going to turn him in to Jabba and was going to play both sides for cash or just kill Solo if Solo didn't agree to the extortion.  A mercenary kills people pre-emptively because he's going to lose his business or his life if he doesn't kill them.  

I think George Lucas understood that comfortably about his character Han Solo, and that's why he filmed him the first time murdering Greedo the right way.  George only got the insecure guilty feelings about it later on (maybe pressures from us crazy fans and our "John Wayne would never shoot first" notions), so he caved to that seriously awkward re-do.  

[Augusta]

On 2 January 2020 at 1:00 PM, Ferrariman said:

As I like to say, welcome back to the 80"s!   

Have to agree with you on a few things. 1st car, 2nd boat.  Season 4 was the turning point for me. Still some good strong episodes, just not as many of them. Season 5 lost the feel of the show because of the departure of Jan Hammer. I know he left early in season 4 and I always thought John Petersen was the perfect replacement but sadly the powers that be had other ideas. I had heard rumors that DJ got Truman the job but he just wasn't right for "Vice"  what are your thoughts on this?

Anyway, welcome again and if you need any help just give a shout.  Enjoy!

I can't like Tim Truman's music, because it's Season-5 music.  What I mean is, Tim Truman and Season-5 were narrowed down on the characters doing things.  Jan Hammer's music was focused on the character called "Miami, a city having so much colorful fun it was close to considering policmen to be a nuisance", LOL!    Truman didn't make us feel this "fun and nuisance" mood in his music.

 

But I shouldn't blame that on Truman, because Dick Wolf was steering the attitude of Miami Vice by Season-5.  And Wolf didn't care about "a Miami".  Wolf cared about 'police stories'.

 

 

Comparing Jan Hammer to anyone who came after is so difficult, and I guess maybe unfair to both composers.  

We CAN compare/contrast John Williams to any other composer (unlucky enough) to come after him in the Star Wars realm, because John Williams was assigned to study Star Wars, develop something that George Lucas wanted for this scene, and construct a format of music that they finally agree works. George Lucas wanted a certain style of music---it was up to Williams to produce something using that style, and get George to be satisfied.  Williams and every later competitor had that same assignment.

 

Tim Truman had that same assignment too.  "This is Miami Vice.  Regardless of what J Hammer may have made for the series two seasons ago, create some stuff for us that captures a cool mood for our characters".  

 

But Jan Hammer had an excellent advantage over Truman, or even over John Williams.  He wasn't assigned to MAKE something the filmmaker wanted.  The kind of music he was already making was considered EXACTLY what the creators wanted, and it almost looks as though they said "Just keep writing what you're writing now, and we want to insert it into our show---you have complete blank check--just don't change anything you're doing."  

 

Against someone whose music apparently already had everything Miami Vice wanted before he even got picked for the job, any other composer is going to be brutally  handicapped.  

 

I think the only factor that was merciful for Tim Truman was that MV was already established in the audience's mind in terms of "the city", "the cool", "the coke", that we were all into the characters by now, didn't need the musical reinforcement of "life in Miami" anymore, and in the back of our minds we could accept the music just being focused on whatever dark or passionate actions the characters do in this episode.... which is pretty much what Truman did with his music. 

[Retro80sfan]

Welcome to the 80s! 

[Matt5]

On 1/5/2020 at 6:40 AM, Augusta said:

I can't like Tim Truman's music, because it's Season-5 music.  What I mean is, Tim Truman and Season-5 were narrowed down on the characters doing things.  Jan Hammer's music was focused on the character called "Miami, a city having so much colorful fun it was close to considering policmen to be a nuisance", LOL!    Truman didn't make us feel this "fun and nuisance" mood in his music.

 

But I shouldn't blame that on Truman, because Dick Wolf was steering the attitude of Miami Vice by Season-5.  And Wolf didn't care about "a Miami".  Wolf cared about 'police stories'.

 

 

Comparing Jan Hammer to anyone who came after is so difficult, and I guess maybe unfair to both composers.  

We CAN compare/contrast John Williams to any other composer (unlucky enough) to come after him in the Star Wars realm, because John Williams was assigned to study Star Wars, develop something that George Lucas wanted for this scene, and construct a format of music that they finally agree works. George Lucas wanted a certain style of music---it was up to Williams to produce something using that style, and get George to be satisfied.  Williams and every later competitor had that same assignment.

 

Tim Truman had that same assignment too.  "This is Miami Vice.  Regardless of what J Hammer may have made for the series two seasons ago, create some stuff for us that captures a cool mood for our characters".  

 

But Jan Hammer had an excellent advantage over Truman, or even over John Williams.  He wasn't assigned to MAKE something the filmmaker wanted.  The kind of music he was already making was considered EXACTLY what the creators wanted, and it almost looks as though they said "Just keep writing what you're writing now, and we want to insert it into our show---you have complete blank check--just don't change anything you're doing."  

 

Against someone whose music apparently already had everything Miami Vice wanted before he even got picked for the job, any other composer is going to be brutally  handicapped.  

 

I think the only factor that was merciful for Tim Truman was that MV was already established in the audience's mind in terms of "the city", "the cool", "the coke", that we were all into the characters by now, didn't need the musical reinforcement of "life in Miami" anymore, and in the back of our minds we could accept the music just being focused on whatever dark or passionate actions the characters do in this episode.... which is pretty much what Truman did with his music. 

Welcome friend - it’s a common misconception but Dick Wolf was not on the show in Season 5 it was showrunner Robert Ward with Scott Shepherd and Ken Solarz.

[summer84]

27 minutes ago, Matt5 said:

Welcome friend - it’s a common misconception but Dick Wolf was not on the show in Season 5 it was showrunner Robert Ward with Scott Shepherd and Ken Solarz.

The name Ken Solarz sounds familiar, maybe he wrote some of the episodes for Vice. Thanks for the info. Was Dick Wolf also showrunner for S4 or was it only partly as I recall someone mentioned?

Edited January 6, 2020 by summer84

[Matt5]

14 minutes ago, summer84 said:

The name Ken Solarz sounds familiar, maybe he wrote some of the episodes for Vice. Thanks for the info. Was Dick Wolf also showrunner for S4 or was it only partly as I recall someone mentioned?

Dick Wolf was the main showrunner for Season 4 yes with Peter McCabe. 
Ken Solarz  was the main story editor for Season 5 and he wrote a number of Season 5 episodes including “Hostile Takever” the Season premiere.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Matt5