REAL vs. REEL

[Sonny-Burnett]

This is what a REAL drug agents desk looks like. Be sure to check the closer picture.

Very cool Jurassic!

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Thought you might like that C&B. We have a bug van (minus the bug on top) at my work unit' date=' but no Ferraris or walls of glass block. It does feel good to be back in the saddle, though.Glad I was able to make your day![/quote']Just wondering, have you ever driven the Daytona to work, and if not, will you ever drive it to work?(Love the desk!!! :thumbsup: You ABSOLUTELY made my day!! )

[jurassic narc]

Just wondering' date=' have you ever driven the Daytona to work, and if not, will you ever drive it to work?(Love the desk!!! :thumbsup: You ABSOLUTELY made my day!! )[/quote'] Driving the Daytona to work attracts a little more attention where I am now. Might try it one day, but that won't make as good a picture for the Forum as my desk did.JN

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Driving the Daytona to work attracts a little more attention where I am now. Might try it one day' date=' but that won't make as good a picture for the Forum as my desk did.JN[/quote']Your desk is AWESOME!Once again, I'm jealous.Can you post a bigger picture of it, not sure if enough people have viewed it.(P.S. I love your car.)

[VinceLombard]

This is definetly the best thread in this forum! I can get enough of the reading. I enjoy every line -its so rare to have the insights from the real world! very valuable!. (I'm sooo mad I got to the end of the thread!!! lol)Ok, I was wondering -1. So Crockett is undercover, he has this whole alternative identity established, is known on the streets as Burnett, the local smuggler, -so how is he participating still in drug busts, arresting locals hookers on the streets, interigating suspects at the station.....-wouldn't any of the prostitutes he arrested, or dealers he busted or any local scum he arrested -as soon as they get out of jail annouce to their friends-hey this Burnett guy -actually arrested me or my friend, so he's really a cop. How could he still exist in the local underworld since in so many episodes at the end he revels his identity? How is it handled in the real world? :cool:2. How would he cover up that there are other cops hanging out on his yaht? and that in the morning he drives his car to the police station etc.Would any of the mobsters be bright enough before doing a deal with him to just observe him for a couple days? hmmm lets see what does this guy do and where ho drives etc....Or even a put a bug somewhere on the boat, so they can hear him talking on the phone etc.How would that be? :radar:3.Regarding to the Vice squad-Here in Cali as I've read our vice squad is usually limited to pronography, liquor licences, gambling licences, prostitution, etc.In MV they often are working large narcotic cases, home invasions, often homicides, -would they really be able to stay on such case? wouldn't they be transfered to the other depts?

[jurassic narc]

This is definetly the best thread in this forum! I can get enough of the reading. I enjoy every line -its so rare to have the insights from the real world! very valuable!. (I'm sooo mad I got to the end of the thread!!! lol)Ok' date=' I was wondering -1. So Crockett is undercover, he has this whole alternative identity established, is known on the streets as Burnett, the local smuggler, -so how is he participating still in drug busts, arresting locals hookers on the streets, interigating suspects at the station.....-wouldn't any of the prostitutes he arrested, or dealers he busted or any local scum he arrested -as soon as they get out of jail annouce to their friends-hey this Burnett guy -actually arrested me or my friend, so he's really a cop. How could he still exist in the local underworld since in so many episodes at the end he revels his identity? How is it handled in the real world? :cool:2. How would he cover up that there are other cops hanging out on his yaht? and that in the morning he drives his car to the police station etc.Would any of the mobsters be bright enough before doing a deal with him to just observe him for a couple days? hmmm lets see what does this guy do and where ho drives etc....Or even a put a bug somewhere on the boat, so they can hear him talking on the phone etc.How would that be? :radar:3.Regarding to the Vice squad-Here in Cali as I've read our vice squad is usually limited to pronography, liquor licences, gambling licences, prostitution, etc.In MV they often are working large narcotic cases, home invasions, often homicides, -would they really be able to stay on such case? wouldn't they be transfered to the other depts? [/quote'] 1-In the real world an undercover agent would use more than one identity. Only really big fish would know anything about his life and background (as Burnett). And once the Burnett identity was fried, the agent would have a new identity developed. The car and boat could most likely be reused, but the name would change. I think the show used Burnett for the run because it would have been confusing for the audience.2-The office was an off-site--an unmarked facility used by the Drug and Vice unit. Uniforms and marked cars were probably religated to a rear entrance. That is what we do at my office. Undercover cars are only parked in public parking at the courthouse and any public facility. On occasion a bad guy might try to do counter-surveillance, but a good UC will look for that and use their skill and knowledge of the area to loose the tail. At the time of Miami Vice the trackers we use today were very large and not very precise, they give you a direction to look but little else.Real dealers would do most of their checking at the time that a deal was taking place. They would set up lookouts and try to pull last minute changes that would make the police reveal themselves. But we have ways to deal with that....Truly the biggest problem would be the Ferrari. It might have been used for special occasions, but for daily work it is just too conspicuous. And no way you could do surveillance it that thing.3-At the time Metro-Dade had a drug unit which worked a couple of different levels of violators (street level, mid-level and major cases). Adding vice to the mix just gave the writers some additional room to work in. For most cops, working vice is a crappy job, as most of the crimes are misdemeanors and have little or no jury appeal. But the addition of those story lines gave the show more legs.It would not have been unusual for Narcs to be detached on a special case like the home invaders (they had cars suited for surveillance and were experienced in that), but some of the episodes were a little much. Doing security for visiting dignitaries, working homicides (as opposed to helping the homicide detectives) and some of the other premisies were far fetched. In fact, the story lines that seem to be unlikely (being sent to Columbia on the DEA's behalf like in Smugglers Blues and Freefall) were actually very authentic. What can I say.....

[Guest MetroVice]

Maintaining your cover . . .

JN - You deserve all the recognition in the world for your service.I have a question' date=' too. In your opinion, would Crockett have been able to maintain his cover indefinitely or is there a 'life expectancy' for undercover work? Do you think the show got this aspect right? Thanks![/quote'] From my own observation I can't imagine Crockett, Tubbs, or ANY of the regular Vice crew would have possibly been able to maintain their cover very long, at least not in reality. Just think about all the times they pulled up to a scene, got out and walked around for hours at a time with their gold or silver bling hanging around their necks or on their waist . . . there's no way in hell *somebody* at some point wouldn't have eventually seen them parading around *IN PUBLIC*with their badges displayed in some fashion.SOMEBODY is going to see you at some point in time and whatever "cover" you had is all over :cry:But that's me . . .

[COOPER&BURNETT]

From my own observation I can't imagine Crockett' date=' Tubbs, or ANY of the regular Vice crew would have possibly been able to maintain their cover very long, at least not in reality. Just think about all the times they pulled up to a scene, got out and walked around for hours at a time with their gold or silver bling hanging around their necks or on their waist . . . there's no way in hell *somebody* at some point wouldn't have eventually seen them parading around *IN PUBLIC*with their badges displayed in some fashion.SOMEBODY is going to see you at some point in time and whatever "cover" you had is all over :cry:But that's me . . .[/quote']ESPECIALLY after marrying Caitlin, having a photo in the paper, and a rag magazine writing about him, and him escorting her all over the place with people everywhere watching.

[juscat]

JURASSIC NARC::clap::clap::clap:Thank you.[ATTACH=CONFIG]4314[/ATTACH] Uber cool picture, too!

[Philippe]

Be sure to check the closer picture.

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1544&stc=1&d=1275613692The price is right and so is the name... 'Phil', I like that!

[jurassic narc]

From my own observation I can't imagine Crockett' date=' Tubbs, or ANY of the regular Vice crew would have possibly been able to maintain their cover very long, at least not in reality. Just think about all the times they pulled up to a scene, got out and walked around for hours at a time with their gold or silver bling hanging around their necks or on their waist . . . there's no way in hell *somebody* at some point wouldn't have eventually seen them parading around *IN PUBLIC*with their badges displayed in some fashion.SOMEBODY is going to see you at some point in time and whatever "cover" you had is all over :cry:But that's me . . .[/quote'] Don't forget that in the end every case goes to court. And you will spend lots of time sitting on the benchs with lots of folks passing by you. But we still do it every day, and we get by with it most of the time!Actually that is one of the things that make it fun!!

[Kavinsky]

and Metro keep in mind that one of the nicknames for Police I've heard is one time, which means you only get arested one time and your in jail for quite some time so its not like theres too much probabilty of them bumping into you out on the street for the next 5 yearsMind you that was something I heard in a video game not real life that took place in 1992, GTA San Andreas but you get the pointunless its for something minor and since Crockett and Tubbs deal with the big boys who are dealing in some major things like arm trafficking, drugs and the like theres some pretty serious penalties behind getting caught with that stuff and I would imagine its on a federal level not a state one and the feds mean buisness when it comes to that. and occasionally they do let someone go with out letting them know their true identity and go after some else like the Arms Trafficker from "When Irish Eyes Are Crying" so its not like they arrest every criminal they run into, they pick and choose the people they go after for the good of that particular case.plus its a TV show and they cant just change his cover because of how much it would cost them to move and change all of the stuff they use for the show, the Daytona, Testarossa, Chris Craft, Welcraft and The 38 footer, plus everything else on a one episode basis.and thats just Crockett's stuff, Tubbs would require an equal amount too, basically just look at it as a single entitey per episode rather than the overal picture since it is a TV show not a movie so its not like they could really do that, atleast not too much. although I wish he had changed his name once in awhile like he did in the begining of the show with "Heart Of Darkness" along with his clothes like Zeto did in one of the episodes where he was dressed as a biker, silly but you get my point.and the other thing I wish they had done is kept the random police side characters from the first season around, it just made it feel all the more real like it was taking place in a real police department, like that guy who talks to Tubbs about his brothers death right before they go after calderone, the scene right before the voices montage and the guy who bugged the place in No Exit, those kinda people that were frequent in S1.

[VinceLombard]

1-In the real world an undercover agent would use more than one identity. Only really big fish would know anything about his life and background (as Burnett). And once the Burnett identity was fried' date=' the agent would have a new identity developed. The car and boat could most likely be reused, but the name would change. I think the show used Burnett for the run because it would have been confusing for the audience.2-The office was an off-site--an unmarked facility used by the Drug and Vice unit. Uniforms and marked cars were probably religated to a rear entrance. That is what we do at my office. Undercover cars are only parked in public parking at the courthouse and any public facility. On occasion a bad guy might try to do counter-surveillance, but a good UC will look for that and use their skill and knowledge of the area to loose the tail. At the time of Miami Vice the trackers we use today were very large and not very precise, they give you a direction to look but little else.Real dealers would do most of their checking at the time that a deal was taking place. They would set up lookouts and try to pull last minute changes that would make the police reveal themselves. But we have ways to deal with that....Truly the biggest problem would be the Ferrari. It might have been used for special occasions, but for daily work it is just too conspicuous. And no way you could do surveillance it that thing......[/quote']Thank you kindly, JurassicNarc! That actually makes a lot of sense, thank you for claryfying the issuues so many of us on this forum have been wondering about while watching the show.Your answers give a lot of insights and food for thought and actually add a new flavor to the series, making it more realistic and interesting-not just a pure fiction.-That makes sense about using multiple names but what about face-some people in crime know each other, would get ugly if he ever heard -waita minute-I know that dude....Is the work of the narc much different today? You see we would think that with develop technology such as internet, micro phone taping, micro cameras, GPS tracking, internet hacking, facebooks etc (It is mentioned in the movie that the bad guys have unlimited resources and much more advanced than the police dept's thigh tech toys) would be much harder to keep a cover nowaday? And how would you manage to keep it up if they had more advanced tech?For exapmle we have MV the Movie, which suppose to be an equivalent to the show just in the current times-the drug lord is shown to do their background check, acess police dept. records to check about their employment, dmv records, jam their cell phone signall and within a few minutes from the meeting locate their homes (send Trudy Flowers). How does this compare to the reality and the different wayc undercovers had to adopt from the time of the series to the current day?

3-At the time Metro-Dade had a drug unit which worked a couple of different levels of violators (street level' date=' mid-level and major cases). Adding vice to the mix just gave the writers some additional room to work in. For most cops, working vice is a crappy job, as most of the crimes are misdemeanors and have little or no jury appeal. But the addition of those story lines gave the show more legs.It would not have been unusual for Narcs to be detached on a special case like the home invaders (they had cars suited for surveillance and were experienced in that), but some of the episodes were a little much. Doing security for visiting dignitaries, working homicides (as opposed to helping the homicide detectives) and some of the other premisies were far fetched. In fact, the story lines that seem to be unlikely (being sent to Columbia on the DEA's behalf like in Smugglers Blues and Freefall) were actually very authentic. What can I say.....[/quote']-I see... so would the type of work that Crockett and Tubbs do, be more specific to the Narcotics Unit than characteristic of the Vice Unit? (and sometimes they swith to homocide unit lol so pretty much our vice cops represent works of different dept in different episodes?

From my own observation I can't imagine Crockett' date=' Tubbs, or ANY of the regular Vice crew would have possibly been able to maintain their cover very long, at least not in reality. Just think about all the times they pulled up to a scene, got out and walked around for hours at a time with their gold or silver bling hanging around their necks or on their waist . . . there's no way in hell *somebody* at some point wouldn't have eventually seen them parading around *IN PUBLIC*with their badges displayed in some fashion.SOMEBODY is going to see you at some point in time and whatever "cover" you had is all over :cry:But that's me . . .[/quote']-Yes I exactly agree, I cannot understand how could they be on a undercover assignment during the negotiations with some cartell, and next minute we see them driving to some crime scene, and in the presence of many by-standers hanging up their badges with the famous "ok.....what do we got here..." (???)Could you really being a cop risk the possibility that among all those bystanders, all the cars driving on the street, all the pedestrians and others-that for certain there will not be anybody realtaed to any of the crime asociates that you are doing the deal with? Would you bet your life that none of them will ever be walking, by, standing by, driving by or seeing you on tv?

[Philippe]

But' date=' as you say, it is TV. And it is hard to imagine Crockett and Tubbs driving down the street, with "In the Air Tonight" in the background as they race to the deal in a beige Monte Carlo![/quote']:DFully agree, as I remember it - tv shows in the 80's always took serious liberties when it came down to realism The A-Team, Knightrider, The dukes of Hazard, Dynasty, Dallas... they are not the kind you remember for the realism - but they where great to watch anyway.By the end of season one you have Tubbs being chased by a car and you see him running around the palm-trees in a attempt not to get hit, it's so unrealistic it's almost funny - but hey that doesn't take away Miami Vice is a great show.And I guess you never must make it to realistic because you would end up showing strategies that are not supposed to be known by the general public let alone by the criminals.I also remember a agent once say, the smart ones rarely get caught - and there's a lot of truth in that, most that do get caught are either to sloppy or to greedy, in either case they end up drawing attention. Most Godfathers i know don't live their life being another 'John Gotti' but by being the regular Joe.Thanks for the inside info Jurassic Narc:clap:

[jurassic narc]

unless its for something minor and since Crockett and Tubbs deal with the big boys who are dealing in some major things like arm trafficking' date=' drugs and the like theres some pretty serious penalties behind getting caught with that stuff and I would imagine its on a federal level not a state one and the feds mean buisness when it comes to that. and occasionally they do let someone go with out letting them know their true identity and go after some else like the Arms Trafficker from "When Irish Eyes Are Crying" so its not like they arrest every criminal they run into, they pick and choose the people they go after for the good of that particular case.[/quote'] At the time MV was shooting, the US Attorney's Office (federal prosecuters) were so inundated that they wouldn't take a coke case that wasn't an organization unless there was more than 1000 pounds. Organizations were defined as multi-state, or multi-national. Most of the cases that would have been made by MV would have been State Superior Court cases, and would have ground their way through the Dade County Courthouse along with DUIs and speeding cases.And it seems hard to believe by most people, but you actually could work an undercover identity a lot longer than you would think. It was the flashy cars and trinkets that would be your downfall. People often can't place names and faces (or they think they know you, but can't remember where from) but exotic cars, airplanes, and other big ticket items will be remembered. The sail boat moving from marina to marina was pretty realistic, as the boat itself was not unusual.As far as being seen out with the badge hanging out, most people don't see the face--they see the badge. With that being said, I discourage my people from doing that unless it is absolutly necessary.No question that the writers took some poetic license with the details, and tried to simplify some aspects of the show that didn't have any bearing on the plot. But they kept enough details to make the show "feel right".

[Kavinsky]

The one thing I will say about the ferrari is that atleast with the daytona if you hid it in the shade they might not notice it like here in one of the episodes:and if I remember correctly for the third season they started cutting down on the ferrari's usage and started using Tubbs's car for a few stakeouts (probably because of the gas mileage, no power steering and the fact Don constantly grinded gears in it) but even then that 63' is pretty noticeableActually they might have been able to get away with using the ferrari if they had left it black since they themselves said that it didnt show up well in the night scenes and if you shut off the lights judging by this photo from "The Informant" the damn thing would have been basically cloaked at night, funny every time I watch S3 I think to myself how awesome that car would have looked in black.although I would imagine that it would have been cheaper and better for the show if Crockett had two cars, sort of like he had two boats. a low brow car that wouldnt draw much attention for stakeouts and surveillance like the Camaro he used in the pilot or the getaway drivers car from the Hit List or the 1959 Chevy Apache he used temporarly in Stones War when the Daytona bit the dust:and then the high roller Ferrari/Chris Craft with an expensive watch and suit for use on the big boys.

[cheetah]

1-In the real world an undercover agent would use more than one identity. Only really big fish would know anything about his life and background (as Burnett). And once the Burnett identity was fried' date=' the agent would have a new identity developed. The car and boat could most likely be reused, but the name would change. I think the show used Burnett for the run because it would have been confusing for the audience.2-The office was an off-site--an unmarked facility used by the Drug and Vice unit. Uniforms and marked cars were probably religated to a rear entrance. That is what we do at my office. Undercover cars are only parked in public parking at the courthouse and any public facility. On occasion a bad guy might try to do counter-surveillance, but a good UC will look for that and use their skill and knowledge of the area to loose the tail. At the time of Miami Vice the trackers we use today were very large and not very precise, they give you a direction to look but little else.Real dealers would do most of their checking at the time that a deal was taking place. They would set up lookouts and try to pull last minute changes that would make the police reveal themselves. But we have ways to deal with that....Truly the biggest problem would be the Ferrari. It might have been used for special occasions, but for daily work it is just too conspicuous. And no way you could do surveillance it that thing.3-At the time Metro-Dade had a drug unit which worked a couple of different levels of violators (street level, mid-level and major cases). Adding vice to the mix just gave the writers some additional room to work in. For most cops, working vice is a crappy job, as most of the crimes are misdemeanors and have little or no jury appeal. But the addition of those story lines gave the show more legs.It would not have been unusual for Narcs to be detached on a special case like the home invaders (they had cars suited for surveillance and were experienced in that), but some of the episodes were a little much. Doing security for visiting dignitaries, working homicides (as opposed to helping the homicide detectives) and some of the other premisies were far fetched. In fact, the story lines that seem to be unlikely (being sent to Columbia on the DEA's behalf like in Smugglers Blues and Freefall) were actually very authentic. What can I say.....[/quote'] Thank you very much, JurassicNarc! Though it wasn't me who asked those questions, I had some of them in my head for a long time. Concerning number 3 - I've been fooled by the show all this time, because I thought that catching drug dealers was a normal job for vice, along with prostitution and stuff... But now I know it's a bit different. And the desk pictures are nice too, somehow I missed them before.

[VinceLombard]

Thank you kindly' date=' JurassicNarc! That actually makes a lot of sense, thank you for claryfying the issuues so many of us on this forum have been wondering about while watching the show.Your answers give a lot of insights and food for thought and actually add a new flavor to the series, making it more realistic and interesting-not just a pure fiction.-That makes sense about using multiple names but what about face-some people in crime know each other, would get ugly if he ever heard -waita minute-I know that dude....Is the work of the narc much different today? You see we would think that with develop technology such as internet, micro phone taping, micro cameras, GPS tracking, internet hacking, facebooks etc (It is mentioned in the movie that the bad guys have unlimited resources and much more advanced than the police dept's thigh tech toys) would be much harder to keep a cover nowaday? And how would you manage to keep it up if they had more advanced tech?For exapmle we have MV the Movie, which suppose to be an equivalent to the show just in the current times-the drug lord is shown to do their background check, acess police dept. records to check about their employment, dmv records, jam their cell phone signall and within a few minutes from the meeting locate their homes (send Trudy Flowers). How does this compare to the reality and the different wayc undercovers had to adopt from the time of the series to the current day? -I see... so would the type of work that Crockett and Tubbs do, be more specific to the Narcotics Unit than characteristic of the Vice Unit? (and sometimes they swith to homocide unit lol so pretty much our vice cops represent works of different dept in different episodes? -Yes I exactly agree, I cannot understand how could they be on a undercover assignment during the negotiations with some cartell, and next minute we see them driving to some crime scene, and in the presence of many by-standers hanging up their badges with the famous "ok.....what do we got here..." (???)Could you really being a cop risk the possibility that among all those bystanders, all the cars driving on the street, all the pedestrians and others-that for certain there will not be anybody realtaed to any of the crime asociates that you are doing the deal with? Would you bet your life that none of them will ever be walking, by, standing by, driving by or seeing you on tv?[/quote'] -In addition to the afformentioned, ---the issue of changing the undercover identities -in the show we ocasionaly see the mobsters/criminals asking for references/who do you know/who did you do business with etc. Often they do not want to do business with somebody new on the block like the Great Mcarthy saing "I dont know you, I dont know anything about you, I dont think we;ll do business", other times in season 3 they often say-"we'll see we'll have to contact and ask a few people-and if what you say is true, we'll be in touch" -that seem to be common in the show lol and since Crockett was known on the underground market for a while, he had references -now how would it be handled if the officer changes the names??? He gets established as a new player and at least as shown in the series and the movie, most of the bigger fish, dealers would not trust to do business with him...-how real is that perception that show represents?

[Philippe]

As far as i know the one way to expose an undercover agent, apart from asking him credentials and the who do you know questions is to actually present him a line of cocaine.Why? Because most criminals will not mind showing their trustworthiness by doing a one time hit, and undercover cops are not allowed to use drugs in any way. So I guess the 'I don't get high on my own supply' will not quite work.So I wonder what's the plan when that comes up?

[jurassic narc]

As far as i know the one way to expose an undercover agent' date=' apart from asking him credentials and the who do you know questions is to actually present him a line of cocaine.Why? Because most criminals will not mind showing their trustworthiness by doing a one time hit, and undercover cops are not allowed to use drugs in any way. So I guess the 'I don't get high on my own supply' will not quite work.So I wonder what's the plan when that comes up?[/quote'] On the street level you might get hit with that. We do have ways to deal with that, which I won't reveal here except to say that everything you said was true. You can't use, but you can look like you did--and the bad guys can't tell the difference.On the level Crockett and Tubbs were working most of the time, it was considered to be a business. And you don't mix business and drugs. Big dealers would not trust someone with large shipments who used coke. And non-users were common in the business. Hollywood likes to give the impression that drug use is common in the drug business, it is not. Anymore than the best executives using coke or being drunks. In business you want to be on top of your game, like a pro athlete.And "legends" would be built to match an undercover ID. Other people could be influenced to vouch for you, for money or sentencing consideration. Today the internet has added a new aspect to the problem, but it can also help with the solution. There are ways to create identities. We just have to try to stay ahead of the bad guys!!

[VinceLombard]

MIAMI NARCS

it is not. Anymore than the best executives using coke or being drunks. In business you want to be on top of your game, like a pro athlete.And "legends" would be built to match an undercover ID. Other people could be influenced to vouch for you, for money or sentencing consideration. Today the internet has added a new aspect to the problem, but it can also help with the solution. There are ways to create identities. We just have to try to stay ahead of the bad guys!!

I was actually wondering about the same thing, how they always get away without trying any -whereas the other guys are more crazy and relaxed, they seem more like professional businessmen-now that explains why so thank you for the post.It's funny how many of the issues on the show thanks to all that info we have in this thread. Thanks to Jurassin Narc I am now watching the show more like a National Geographics -cop life documentary ha ha, completely new perspectve :)So from my understanding -since DJ and PMT deal so much with larger drug cases- -would the type of work that Crockett and Tubbs do, be more specific to the Narcotics Unit than characteristic of the Vice Unit???? (Miami Narcs vs Miami Vice?)(and sometimes they swith to homocide unit lol so pretty much our vice cops represent hard work of different dept in different episodes, and maybe the show is to give tribute to all of them not just vice unit?)

[Philippe]

it is not. Anymore than the best executives using coke or being drunks. In business you want to be on top of your game, like a pro athlete.And "legends" would be built to match an undercover ID. Other people could be influenced to vouch for you, for money or sentencing consideration. Today the internet has added a new aspect to the problem, but it can also help with the solution. There are ways to create identities. We just have to try to stay ahead of the bad guys!!

First of all, I want to thank you for your answer jurassic narc as I wasn't to sure I was going to get any, I thought afterwards that perhaps this wasn't the kind of question to ask.But you did and I'm grateful for that. Also, I think it's a blessing to have you among us and answering our questions. The chances of meeting a undercover agent is rather nonexistent, and even if we did meet such a person there's little chance we would actually know about the undercover work to begin with. So once again thank you for this great opportunity, it's a honor and I thought I needed to say.By street level, you probably mean the distribution that is the closest to the general drug users - right? So if I get this right most undercover work involves working with the big fishes, not the shrimps. It then sounds indeed logical that these big ones don't get involved with any drug abuse themselves, like you said so well it's like top businessmen or pro sports athletes.So do you think there was a evolution through the years or is it safe to say that characters like the Tony Montana character from the Scarface movie never really did exist?Do you have any thoughts about the Donnie Brasco movie? In my opinion this gave us some idea of what undercover work was about, especially the level of dedication that is needed seems unbelievable high. I especially remember the last scene where Agent Joseph D. Pistonereceived a medal and a paycheck for his undercover contribution that seemed almost ridiculous in comparison to the cash flow that he encountered in his undercover job. It's got to be frustrating somehow. Also having to spend the rest of his live being on guard for possible retribution from the mob scene doesn't look like a very promising retreat, and then I even didn't mention his personal live with his family.All in all we the general public can only give tremendous respect and gratitude to the men and woman who are or have been active as a undercover agent. IMO it's got to be one of the toughest jobs ever. Thank you!

[jurassic narc]

First of all' date=' I want to thank you for your answer jurassic narc as I wasn't to sure I was going to get any, I thought afterwards that perhaps this wasn't the kind of question to ask.But you did and I'm grateful for that. Also, I think it's a blessing to have you among us and answering our questions. The chances of meeting a undercover agent is rather nonexistent, and even if we did meet such a person there's little chance we would actually know about the undercover work to begin with. So once again thank you for this great opportunity, it's a honor and I thought I needed to say.By street level, you probably mean the distribution that is the closest to the general drug users - right? So if I get this right most undercover work involves working with the big fishes, not the shrimps. It then sounds indeed logical that these big ones don't get involved with any drug abuse themselves, like you said so well it's like top businessmen or pro sports athletes.So do you think there was a evolution through the years or is it safe to say that characters like the Tony Montana character from the Scarface movie never really did exist?Do you have any thoughts about the Donnie Brasco movie? In my opinion this gave us some idea of what undercover work was about, especially the level of dedication that is needed seems unbelievable high. I especially remember the last scene where Agent Joseph D. Pistonereceived a medal and a paycheck for his undercover contribution that seemed almost ridiculous in comparison to the cash flow that he encountered in his undercover job. It's got to be frustrating somehow. Also having to spend the rest of his live being on guard for possible retribution from the mob scene doesn't look like a very promising retreat, and then I even didn't mention his personal live with his family.All in all we the general public can only give tremendous respect and gratitude to the men and woman who are or have been active as a undercover agent. IMO it's got to be one of the toughest jobs ever. Thank you![/quote']Yes, street level dealers are dealing in small quantities, usually direct to users. They are the small fish. You go after them to get bait to catch the bigger fish. Crockett and Tubbs would do just what my agents do everyday, roll a little guy and use him/her to lure someone bigger. Did that very thing just this afternoon.The character of Tony Montana is an extreme extension of the characters who populated the drug business in the late 1970s and early 1980s. There were three types (generally, and very oversimplified) the business man (think Charlie Glide), the wise guy moving up in the world (Caldaron and Tony Montano, along with several more in the MV series) and then the ex-spooks or soldiers of fortune who used their contacts and experience to run loads into the US and often in exchange for guns and weapons that went south to support one side or the other in Central or South America (think Maynard-Captain Real Estate).As to Donnie Brasco, the kind of undercover the FBI does with mobsters and the ATF does with biker gangs is very different than what drug agents do. We don't go for the long haul undercover operations that have you living a dual life. Because it is hard to justify allowing drugs to get on the street, our operations are more hit-and-run (which is perfect for a TV series--but not good for a movie).I have been undercover myself when the guy I was dealing with wanted me to help him kill his cocaine dealer and steal his drugs. You cannot run the risk of this guy being out on the street for an extended period. Things like that cause a lengthy drug investigation to be taken down, we can't be responsible (even just by doing nothing to stop it) for letting a murder occur.I ended up talking him into letting me come back later and kill the guy, since the dealer didn't know me. It was actually a logical thing to do, and the bad guy bought it. We held him off for a couple of days, and then took everyone down at once. The bad guy didn't know that I was not really planning to help him with the murder till we got to court. So, when he was arrested he tried to us the information he had on ME to deal his way out of his charges. He was really shocked to find out I was an Agent. He thought right up until the time that I identified myself on the witness stand that I was just snitching on him to get my charges reduced.He did not, as you can imagine, work for NASA.....And thanks for the kind words, but being called a blessing is too much. I do enjoy remembering the good old days, and have a great time leading the kids who work for me as we are this Century's Miami Vice. I AM THE ONE WHO IS BLESSED, to have done this job for 31+ years, to have done so without a serious injury, and to have seen so many things that only a select few ever get to see.So, if I can contribute to the cause on this site (and not give away any trade secrets while doing so) I am always happy to do so.JN

[jurassic narc]

I was actually wondering about the same thing' date=' how they always get away without trying any -whereas the other guys are more crazy and relaxed, they seem more like professional businessmen-now that explains why so thank you for the post.It's funny how many of the issues on the show thanks to all that info we have in this thread. Thanks to Jurassin Narc I am now watching the show more like a National Geographics -cop life documentary ha ha, completely new perspectve :)So from my understanding -since DJ and PMT deal so much with larger drug cases- -would the type of work that Crockett and Tubbs do, be more specific to the Narcotics Unit than characteristic of the Vice Unit???? (Miami Narcs vs Miami Vice?)(and sometimes they swith to homocide unit lol so pretty much our vice cops represent hard work of different dept in different episodes, and maybe the show is to give tribute to all of them not just vice unit?)[/quote'] In places like LA, the drug and vice unit were often combined. Which is one of the reasons the show was about a drug and vice unit (all TV concepts are influenced by the Hollywood mentallity). It also allowed for some different story lines, and not to mention that it gave the producers an excuse to dress Gina and Trudy like who---I mean prostitutes. In my experience, a plot like Home Invaders could happen just like that. Violent crooks doing serious damage to people and property. The Vice unit has surveillance experience, undercover cars, and ears on the street (snitches). So Vice is on loan to Crimes Against Persons (or Homicide or whatever the unit was called).On the other hand, Florence Italy's murder would have been handled by a Homicide Detective, not a narc. But then again, it was only TV.JN

[COOPER&BURNETT]

And thanks for the kind words' date=' but being called a blessing is too much. I do enjoy remembering the good old days, and have a great time leading the kids who work for me as we are this Century's Miami Vice. I AM THE ONE WHO IS BLESSED, to have done this job for 31+ years, to have done so without a serious injury, and to have seen so many things that only a select few ever get to see.So, if I can contribute to the cause on this site (and not give away any trade secrets while doing so) I am always happy to do so.JN[/quote']I LOVE COPS!