Library corner (about Florida or not)

[jpaul1]

Hi folks, i have a question regarding a book, and i thought it could be interesting to open a thread dedicated to books. if you found a good book about Florida you could share it here, or if you have a question about a book you could ask it here. instead of having 200 millions of threads

i'd like to buy that book. the thing is it's not free. you harldy find a second hand copy for less than 20€. so i was wondering if someone had read it already, and what were your thoughts about it

https://www.alibris.co.uk/booksearch?mtype=B&keyword=voices+from+mariel&hs.x=0&hs.y=0

Edited August 27, 2021 by jpaul1

[Dadrian]

@jpaul1 check this out:
 

edit: I posted the wrong link

 

Seems we discussed this before. 

Maybe “Miami Blues” was mentioned?

@Robbie C. or @miamijimf any help?

Jim himself wrote a Florida book, as you may know. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dadrian

[Robbie C.]

I found a number of copies here for under $30: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-home-_-Results&an=&tn=Voices+from+Mariel&kn=&isbn=

I haven't read the book in question, although I think it would be better background information for something like Scarface.

[miamijimf]

Haven't read the book but it looks good.  If you are interested in the experiences of Cuban refugees during the 1980 boat lift suggest you watch the movie The Perez Family with Marisa Tomei, Anjelica Huston, and Alfred Molina (released May 12, 1995)  This captures an important chapter in US immigration/Miami history.  It has comedy, pathos, and is entertaining while being almost entirely believable.

 

[pahonu]

I haven’t read the book, but I did see the documentary based on it a few years ago.  It’s well done and I recommend it.  Here’s a link to an interview with its subject if you are interested:

https://www.pbs.org/video/aware-aware_voices-mariel/

Here’s the trailer:

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by pahonu

[jpaul1]

until recently my knowledge about Cuba was almost nil. i mean it was really bad . and the more i dig into that country history, the more i discover a fascinating land. i'm trying to understand (among others) if Castro was a good, or bad guy. some say it was a dictator, but he also made incredible and positive changes into Cuban society. before Castro the island was a giant brothel ruled by the mob who exploited the Cuban people. under Castro, healthcare drastically improved, same for education. he also took all the land of the American corporations and give them to the poor, which couldn't have been achieved under any circumstance in a democratic system.

so i'm trying to understand why the marielitos leaved. were they rich fleeing? or desillused lambda citizens?

i believe the answer about the revolutionary rule can't be find into a black, or white spectrum. but more amidst the two. a fascinating island for sure

yeah i will buy the book. i'll try to grab it as soon as it gets under 15€. i think it's a good book indeed, and that's probably the reason why it's particularly high priced for a second hand book. there's very likely a high demand. thanks for the link pahonu much appreciated pal

Edited December 12, 2020 by jpaul1

[pahonu]

49 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

until recently my knowledge about Cuba was almost nil. i mean it was really bad . and the more i dig into that country history, the more i discover a fascinating land. i'm trying to understand (among others) if Castro was a good, or bad guy. some say it was a dictator, but he also made incredible and positive changes into Cuban society. before Castro the island was a giant brothel ruled by the mob who exploited the Cuban people. under Castro, healthcare drastically improved, same for education. he also took all the land of the American corporations and give them to the poor, which couldn't have been achieved under any circumstance in a democratic system.

so i'm trying to understand why the marielitos leaved. were they rich fleeing? or desillused lambda citizens?

i believe the answer about the revolutionary rule can't be find into a black, or white spectrum. but more amidst the two. a fascinating island for sure

yeah i will buy the book. i'll try to grab it as soon as it gets under 15€. i think it's a good book indeed, and that's probably the reason why it's particularly high priced for a second hand book. there's very likely a high demand. thanks for the link pahonu much appreciated pal

I completely agree with your premise that it is not a black and white issue, rather a spectrum of complexity, which is true for many things.  Unfortunately, many try to oversimplify very complex concepts and the results can be disastrous, particularly in political decision making.  I often tell my students that if a person tells you that some historical event is “so simple”, they likely don’t understand it very well.  Most things in this world are just not that simple. 

Cuban history is a complex and fascinating subject.  In years past I have taught about US hegemony in the Caribbean as part of one of my college courses.  For Cuba this period was from 1898 until the Castro’s Cuban Revolution in the mid to late 50’s.  For most of its colonial history though (approximately 400 years) it was controlled by Spain as a source of wealth in the sugarcane trade, first with Taino and then African slaves.  This made Cuba’s economy incredibly volatile because it was based on a single export.  
 

This outside control continued when Spain lost the colony as a result of the Spanish-American war in 1898.  While officially gaining independence, Cuba was occupied by the US and the resulting military government until 1902, again from 1906-09, and during the Sugar Intervention of 1917-22.  The intervening years saw a series of dictators controlling the island with the support of the US to maintain America’s growing control of the sugarcane industry.  The final leader before the revolution was Fulgencio Bautista, last in a series of dictators with US approval.

Castro’s leadership in the revolution was based on the promise of nationalizing this sugar industry and returning control of it and the associated land to the Cuban population.  In the initial years beginning in 1959 this is what happened until the beginning of the US embargo under Eisenhower caused a severe economic crisis.  In 1961 after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Castro turned to the Soviet Union for economic assistance.  It’s important to note that in the first two years after the revolution, the Soviet Union showed little interest in the island, believing US hegemony in the region precluded any possibility of successful involvement.  The following Cuban Missile Crisis cemented this Cold War positioning of the two global superpowers.
 

This is the bulk of my area of knowledge about Cuba.  Castro’s activities domestically and internationally are not in my area of expertise.  I know a bit about Cuba’s involvement in post-colonial Africa and likely even less about it’s domestic policies in the next 30-40 years of Castro’s rule.  Regarding the Mariel Boatlift, I think it’s important to remember that Castro significantly opened the door to Cubans leaving and yet the masses remained.  American’s experience and knowledge with Cuban immigrants are obviously from those who chose to leave so their political views are obvious.  Not considering the relative success or failure of the Cuban communist system, several million Cubans support the system, though it’s population is in decline. Castro’s legacy seems to be one of either love or hate with little in between.

Here’s some further reading of different perspectives if you’re still interested.  Sorry that got long!

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/castro-views-cuba/

[jpaul1]

the book (Voices of Mariel) is an interesting book. it provides testimony from people who lived the Castrist regime from inside. according to what they say, the vast majority, Castro's regime was a real dictatorship. with nothing to envy to hardest soviet block dictatorships, as you could be forced by the regime to actions you wouldn't wanted to participate. like for example taking part of so called repudiation events which consisted of creating a crowd around the houses of people who wanted to leave, and insulting them, and throwing stones at their houses. people including kids reported to have done this against their will.

the peruvian embassy event which was the spark of the mariel exodus was also very interesting. according to all the testimonies the tsunami of migrants who tried to flee, and seek refuge at the embassy was almost never ending. if Castro wouldn't had closed the port of Mariel maybe much more migrants would have fled. So well i don't want to go too political, but the Castro regime was very likely a real dictatorship

regarding the marielitos most of them were intellectual, teachers, doctors, engineers... some were wealthy, but not greedy, as by fleing they made a jump into the unknow, and abandoning all their wealth (including personal jewerly) behind them to cuban authorities

according to another book that i read, Castro regime wouldn't have lasted long without the CCCP block. they backed up massively Cuba in almost all sectors. without Russia support the regime would have very likely exploded

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by jpaul1

[jpaul1]

not exactly about Florida, but i just bought that book, and it's pretty amazing. it seems they listed every single brand, every single america car from the 20s to the 90s. there are even brands i didn't know existed. The pictures are in black and white, probably because of the number (12 000), but personnally i love it, it gives them a vintage/authentic aspect

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by jpaul1

[jpaul1]

Hello, somebody knows that book. it looks interesting, but i find it a bit pricey for only 160 pages

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22581115-lost-miami-beach

edit: just found a cheap copy. I'll tell ya if it's interesting stuff

Edited September 26, 2021 by jpaul1

[jpaul1]

somebody has gone through that book by any chance

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847397.Miami_Beach_Memories?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=5pIoE861kC&rank=1

Edited September 26, 2021 by jpaul1

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

somebody has gone through that book by any chance

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/847397.Miami_Beach_Memories?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=5pIoE861kC&rank=1

I’ve not read this, but there’s a used copy on Amazon for a little more than six dollars.  I have purchased dozens of used books this way and have never been disappointed even when the rating was fair.  They are still totally readable and informative.  I tend to look for better ratings when purchasing architecture books, which is a passion of mine, but have still bought many, many books this way.  I have no idea about shipping costs to you however.  Good luck!

[miamijimf]

Have not read it but it looks interesting.  Like this thread.

[jpaul1]

bad book (for me at least). I was exited to see old Miami images, and that book shows only celebrities. 95% of the pictures are celebs. some telling what they think of Miami. which personnally i don't give a f... I mean i have nothing about celebs. but the title is so misleading. the book should have been called Miami under flashlights (realizing while writing that there's actually a flashlight on the book cover lol), or something. but in term of old days testimony, it's all but solid

still waiting for Lost Miami beach to arrive

Edited October 8, 2021 by jpaul1

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

19 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

bad book (for me at least). I was exited to see old Miami images, and that book shows only celebrities. 95% of the pictures are celebs. some telling what they think of Miami. which personnally i don't give a f... I mean i have nothing about celebs. but the title is so misleading. the book should have been called Miami under flashlights (realizing while writing that there's actually a flashlight on the book cover lol), or something. but in term of old days testimony, it's all but solid

still waiting for Lost Miami beach to arrive

I like those classic photos on the cover, but I see what you mean if the whole deal is just celebrity photos/opinion. I'd probably be looking for more of an even-handed historical overview (with comments on the shots) myself.

[jpaul1]

 

didn't read it fully. but after a short fly over, the book looks really interesting. with lot of old pics. it's only about Miami beach, not Miami. but there are lot of 20s pics showing an almost untouched Maimi beach. which looked totally heaven back then (not taking into account the mosquitoes )

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

3 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

 

didn't read it fully. but after a short fly over, the book looks really interesting. with lot of old pics. it's only about Miami beach, not Miami. but there are lot of 20s pics showing an almost untouched Maimi beach. which looked totally heaven back then (not taking into account the mosquitoes )

Yeah, those darn mosquitos; a little of Cutter (Cutter once, measure twice; it's Cutter's Way) helps me out, but those biting flies are definitely a swore enemy of mine (they're my Calderone/Hackman/Librizzi).

Beautiful book cover here though; I forgot who said it, but in America we most often tear down our older structures and replace them, unlike what Europe does...except Miami, which is an aspect of the city I really appreciate.

[Dadrian]

Here’s a new article about Miami from GQ Magazine:

https://www.gq.com/story/miami-photos-vibe?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=gq&utm_mailing=gq_daily_101521&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bda471a2ddf9c506363331a&cndid=4984146&hasha=38898b28d45c77c60607a02ddcc33fd8&hashb=b42a360cc41437fad41659bd10d1a64a039bb394&hashc=a002664463f69885676c9b8ffa4af38c1262a398dbed5f04a0d2ad7db7b13991&esrc=CDS_OP&utm_campaign=gq_daily_101521&utm_term=GQ_Daily_Active

[pahonu]

6 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Yeah, those darn mosquitos; a little of Cutter (Cutter once, measure twice; it's Cutter's Way) helps me out, but those biting flies are definitely a swore enemy of mine (they're my Calderone/Hackman/Librizzi).

Beautiful book cover here though; I forgot who said it, but in America we most often tear down our older structures and replace them, unlike what Europe does...except Miami, which is an aspect of the city I really appreciate.

Miami actually has a pretty poor reputation for historic structure protection compared to many cities.  St. Augustine and Key West do far better in Florida.  Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington D.C., Richmond, and many other cities have protected structures older than Miami itself, while many structures, old by Miami standards, have been razed.  

[jpaul1]

11 hours ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

Yeah, those darn mosquitos; a little of Cutter (Cutter once, measure twice; it's Cutter's Way) helps me out, but those biting flies are definitely a swore enemy of mine (they're my Calderone/Hackman/Librizzi).

Beautiful book cover here though; I forgot who said it, but in America we most often tear down our older structures and replace them, unlike what Europe does...except Miami, which is an aspect of the city I really appreciate.

Where do you live

until recently mosquitoes were so much of a problem in Corsica, that every corsican had a mountain house to be able to 'flee' during the mosquitoes season. been to Corsica 2 years ago. been camping on a family terrain there, 2 min from the beaches. And at dusk mosquitoes were a nightmare. You couldn't stay outside 2 min

 

regarding the destruction of old buildings personnally i don't find it wrong. But the problem is when you destroy to put ugly stuff instead, to gentrify. personnally i know it would hurt me quite badly if tomorrow i'd learn that the libertad had been razed for a condo. each time Miami looses a Big fish, it looses a bit of its soul. gentrification is a problem that has to be taken (very) seriously IMHO

Edited October 16, 2021 by jpaul1

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

10 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

Where do you live

until recently mosquitoes were so much of a problem in Corsica, that every corsican had a mountain house to be able to 'flee' during the mosquitoes season. been to Corsica 2 years ago. been camping on a family terrain there, 2 min from the beaches. And at dusk mosquitoes were a nightmare. You couldn't stay outside 2 min

 

regarding the destruction of old buildings personnally i don't find it wrong. But the problem is when you destroy to put ugly stuff instead, to gentrify. personnally i know it would hurt me quite badly if tomorrow i'd learn that the libertad had been razed for a condo. each time Miami looses a Big fish, it looses a bit of its soul. gentrification is a problem that has to be taken (very) seriously IMHO

I'm in Fruit Cove, at the very beginning of St. johns County (I bike to work to the Sawgrass Marriott, which is almost the end of St. Johns County entering Putnam). Heck, I even had to deal with a biting fly a few months ago at the back bay of the hotel; yeesh!

Oh, I know what you mean though, some buildings need to be demo'ed (he he, one reason I'm in florida is that my family home was condemned in 2019, and that place really could use a leveling). Definitely though, when a building is toppled just to line someone's pockets with rent money, and what was removed was or could be grand, that's a real shame for sure.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

16 hours ago, pahonu said:

Miami actually has a pretty poor reputation for historic structure protection compared to many cities.  St. Augustine and Key West do far better in Florida.  Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington D.C., Richmond, and many other cities have protected structures older than Miami itself, while many structures, old by Miami standards, have been razed.  

Oh, I didn't know that, I thought Miami was into building but also preservation of structures. I have heard Boston & Philadelphia hold their end up well, and that's something to be said for the remembrance of how the United States begun, so I definitely like that!

[jpaul1]

4 minutes ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

I even had to deal with a biting fly

i know what you mean. i have some here too. hopefully only during a short season. But i fear them. there are the worst. Dracula is a little kid beside

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

8 minutes ago, jpaul1 said:

i know what you mean. i have some here too. hopefully only during a short season. But i fear them. there are the worst. Dracula is a little kid beside

As vampires go, I only fear Chris Sarandon's Jerry character from "Fright Night", but totally with the biting flies. I was back in Western New York last year from late August to late September, but I've seen a higher concentration of those pests this year than last. Bless those lizards that eat them, they have my thanks!

[jpaul1]

is there any good book about DJ, PMT, or EJH, or whoever around