Vice- Separating Fact from Fiction: What was plausible and what was fantasy?

[Eddie Trumbull]

I love discussing certain aspects of the show in which realism was suspended for drama. Watching the show as an adult now is very different from when I watched it as a teen, and with a lifetime of experience behind me, I find it fun to pontificate on what was truly believable regarding cops and crime during the cocaine wars in south Florida and what was pure fantasy. This is not a MV bashing thread, although some things definitely do get a chuckle.. Any aspect of the show is welcome for discussion. I consider myself an expert at MV trivia and obscura so lets have some fun poking at our favorite show!  Be advised, some of the things you may have thought were unrealistic, just might have been within reality parameters for that period in Florida… it was a crazy time.

[Mr. Calderon]

Well...i really dont Care. Too much realism generated that shit movie

[AKUS_1985]

Well, after binge-watching the show, I will say, it's truly amazing that Crockett and Tubbs (almost) always avoid getting shot. It's unrealistic, but works in the show's favor. I mean, they can't be in the hospital every other episode. Generally, For the audience's benefit, I think the serious subject matter of a large number of the episodes needed the juxtaposition of Crockett and Tubbs' humor, and it works rather well. The score from Hammer and Truman also go great with the pop songs of the time. I especially love how 'Relax' by Frankie Goes to Hollywood is utilized during the beginning of 'Little Prince.' What really struck me about the series as a whole is how self-aware it is that it's in the 80's. It ultimately works in the show's favor, but I'd say modern filmmakers were attempting to make an over-the-top period piece, if I didn't know better. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by AKUS_1985

[Eddie Trumbull]

Mr.Calderon did you think MV 2006 was realisitic?? It wasn’t.  Akus.. yeah the amount of shootouts they got in is unheard of and the fact that they never got shot ridiculous.. but even more crazy is that they would conceivably keep their jobs after being in so many uses of force. Even in the 80’s they would have been benched. It helps me to think of each episode as a microcosm, and don’t relate prior shootings

[Mr. Calderon]

Most of the time, the real deal things are boring for movies and tv. They hád tô pack a story in a 45minutes Episode. Im okay with some pasteurization. Even só they did a great job for tv creating a particular universe for vice.

[Tom]

Although some aspects of the show were of course a bit over the top (e.g. Crockett wearing different 1000 bucks worth of clothes every single day), VICE was far more realistic as a whole than most other series (no magic 20 bullet magazines, no good endings all the time, no shoot up of thick locks with one small caliber shot, no revolver with silencers, no overstepping the law without consequences, ....).

The clothing is a good example: for the overall seriousness of MV they took a real fact (VICE was allowed to use seized property from drug dealers for undercover purposes) and stretched it a bit for TV entertainment purposes (i.e. Crockett and Tubbs had a 100 foot long closet full of designer clothes). For me it worked and still works: 30 years after it is still impressive and not outdated. They even had wireless phones on the boat back in 1984  

[AKUS_1985]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

Although some aspects of the show were of course a bit over the top (e.g. Crockett wearing different 1000 bucks worth of clothes every single day), VICE was far more realistic as a whole than most other series (no magic 20 bullet magazines, no good endings all the time, no shoot up of thick locks with one small caliber shot, no revolver with silencers, no overstepping the law without consequences, ....).

The clothing is a good example: for the overall seriousness of MV they took a real fact (VICE was allowed to use seized property from drug dealers for undercover purposes) and stretched it a bit for TV entertainment purposes (i.e. Crockett and Tubbs had a 100 foot long closet full of designer clothes). For me it worked and still works: 30 years after it is still impressive and not outdated. They even had wireless phones on the boat back in 1984  

You're definitely spot on with the clothes. Fashion was and still is a distinctive aspect of MV, and it makes the show visually appealing, even if some of the locales are not. Even if it wasn't entirely realistic, I'm glad they went the route they did with the stylish and elaborate wardrobe choices. 

[Ferrariman]

I'm pretty sure their cover would've been blown, showing up in that same Ferrari all the time. 

[RedDragon86]

Sonny did get shot and they were not exactly in the wars every single episode, they did get maimed from time to time.

The thing is how would it work as a cop show if Rico and Sonny got shot more or less every time during shootout?

 

 

[Tom]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Ferrariman:

I'm pretty sure their cover would've been blown, showing up in that same Ferrari all the time. 

or rather by working Sandoval security as undercover cops at the  Miami international airport in front of TV cameras with their badges on...(in Free Verse).

Edited January 26, 2022 by Tom

[Mr. Vigilante]

2 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

I'm pretty sure their cover would've been blown, showing up in that same Ferrari all the time. 

This is one of the aspects that I laugh at now, but it still doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show. Being truly undercover they would've never shown up on a crime scene with their badges out.  Heck, they probably wouldn't have badges in their possession.  Even in the scene of "Brother's Keeper" after the explosion....Crockett would've been whisked out of there long before any witnesses or media arrived.  I think "Donnie Brasco" and "The Departed" showed how crazy true undercover work could be.

[Miami Beau]

As mentioned, the Testerrosa continuously pulling up to crime scenes would eventually get someone’s attention.

One thing that kinda made no sense was that their cars never got damaged by bullet holes. Given the amount of gun fights that have happened, you would of thought the Testerrosa would of had its rear window shot out once or twice. Only time I remember bullet holes happening, was when Tubbs shot his own car in Smugglers Blues. 

With that said, I give credit to the producers for kinda subtlety addressing this in Season 4’s “Rising Sun Of Death” during the Yakuza shootout. The fact they had Crockett surprised that his car didn’t get shot, was a nice nod to the audience. 

Understandably, making bullet holes in the cars, was likely too pain staking to do each time. 

[Vicefan7777]

I don't ever remember C and T being placed on administrative leave after a shoot out.  Wouldn't that be standard police procedure? 

[Ferrariman]

7 hours ago, Vicefan7777 said:

I don't ever remember C and T being placed on administrative leave after a shoot out.   

Not even after shooting a child in "Child's Play" 

[Eddie Trumbull]

100% you would be on leave after a shooting, but in all fairness, in the early 80’s MDPD it wouldn’t be as long as it is today. 

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Ferrariman:

Not even after shooting a child in "Child's Play" 

in all fairness, Crockett was under official IAD investigation and was cleared quite fast, as the kid was confirmed to have a real loaded gun at close range (that was mentioned by the police captain at the neighbors meeting).

of course that full process until clearance was not shown in full reality length, otherwise that episode would have taken weeks, not an hour

Actually, all episodes are a very compressed version of reality, with a complex case taking weeks or months in actual police work condensed to 48 minutes until it is solved. Why expect differently with the IAD investigation?

[Tom]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Eddie Trumbull:

100% you would be on leave after a shooting, but in all fairness, in the early 80’s MDPD it wouldn’t be as long as it is today. 

In all fairness, every single shooting C&T ever had in the series would have taken hours and days of paper work each (including description and justification of every single shot fired when/where/why, etc.; the massive Prodigal Son shooting at the end alone would have taken months to write up and investigate) and subsequent desk duty until the shooting was cleared. And we never saw that part of police work either (for obvious reasons)!

In VICE it was at least mentioned that this was required, but not shown (or not at least in full length). No one turns on the TV to see a series where a cop most of the time writes up reports or waits at his desk until IAD clears him or her. Thank god they fast forwarded that part ...

[Kladdagh]

Yep I agree ... But the reality (about the undercovers, badges, and bullet holes in the cars) was certainly not the top priority during the production of the series.

Miami Vice was, at the time, more credible than the others tv shows, like Knight rider, Street hawk or Airwolf. 

So, for me, bullets holes in the cars or not are just details.

 

 

[Mr. Calderon]

im so sad...wonder-woman, that powerful lady....guess what...is fake...im so disapointed...that´s why i just believe in Santa Claus and in those Playboy Bunnies

 

 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Calderon said:

im so sad...wonder-woman, that powerful lady....guess what...is fake...im so disapointed...that´s why i just believe in Santa Claus and in those Playboy Bunnies

 

 

I don't believe in Wonder Woman, but I do believe in Lynda Carter in that one photo in which she's wearing a Shakey's Pizza shirt w/ jeans; when I think of Lynda Carter, I automatically think of that photo.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

3 hours ago, Kladdagh said:

Yep I agree ... But the reality (about the undercovers, badges, and bullet holes in the cars) was certainly not the top priority during the production of the series.

Miami Vice was, at the time, more credible than the others tv shows, like Knight rider, Street hawk or Airwolf. 

So, for me, bullets holes in the cars or not are just details.

 

 

I definitely think much of Vice still holds up; not bad for the "cheesy" 80s, right?

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

5 hours ago, Tom said:

in all fairness, Crockett was under official IAD investigation and was cleared quite fast, as the kid was confirmed to have a real loaded gun at close range (that was mentioned by the police captain at the neighbors meeting).

of course that full process until clearance was not shown in full reality length, otherwise that episode would have taken weeks, not an hour

Actually, all episodes are a very compressed version of reality, with a complex case taking weeks or months in actual police work condensed to 48 minutes until it is solved. Why expect differently with the IAD investigation?

"A very compressed version of reality"; I don't know if Vice, or TV/film itself, can be summed up anymore succinctly.

[Augusta]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

In all fairness, every single shooting C&T ever had in the series would have taken hours and days of paper work each (including description and justification of every single shot fired when/where/why, etc.; the massive Prodigal Son shooting at the end alone would have taken months to write up and investigate) and subsequent desk duty until the shooting was cleared. And we never saw that part of police work either (for obvious reasons)!

 

LOL!  Yep, to the compression of much of the paperwork and processing when the cops did something out of bounds.  
Jan Hammer did a "after Vice" CD I liked.  Called Seasons 1 & 2 (or something close to that).  

Some posters here said the music from this CD just was not quite exciting enough to be felt of as "classic Vice episode sound".  I argue, YES it is:  Tubbs going through days of paperwork for Brother's Keeper transfer to Miami, paperwork claims for the loss of the Daytona in an explosion, Crockett's reprimand and disciplinary punishment, Gina's laundry list for all the johns she arrested who need processing. THAT's the music to accompany all this in-between work we don't get to see in the compressed episodes. 

[Ferrariman]

1 hour ago, Eillio Martin Imbasciati said:

I don't believe in Wonder Woman, but I do believe in Lynda Carter in that one photo in which she's wearing a Shakey's Pizza shirt w/ jeans; when I think of Lynda Carter, I automatically think of that photo.

...and do we have that photo? 

[Augusta]

The phone in the boat didn't have wires???!!!  No Way!!  I missed that!
Hehehe, well, I know that Sat-phones were becoming the big thing amongst millionaires around then, and of course we did have cord-free phones in the '80s (...right? Or maybe I'm way out of my head and sat-phones weren't around yet-----am I getting my time periods confused, now?). 

But anyway, I think this is a good thread to hang on for a while.  From what was explained to me way after Miami Vice ended its last season, the show was SO accurate in its portrayal of Miami crimes, Miami public's being generally OK with the crime (cuz the lifestyle and slick energy of the city allowed you to enjoy yourself and overlook how much crime and revenue was running under your feet), Miami's cocaine, Miami public's general ACCEPTANCE of the coke (cuz so many venues and pleasures for nearly EVERY income bracket was regularly exposing people to the opportunity to try snorting "a line"), and accurate about the whack-a-mole nature of vice cop work down there at the time.  It was DEFINITELY not like Dick Wolf's picture of Law keeping on top of the Crimes.  I think I even read a news posting somewhere in which the real (Dade vicinity) vice cops appreciated Miami Vice's portrayal of "we remove six weeds tonight, and be ready to remove three new weeds growing in their place tomorrow afternoon, and keep doing this job every week---no disillusionment".
I think vice cops in that documentary also pointed out that they just don't have the funding, or the luck, to snag the hottest cars and clothes like the show's Vice did.  The items the real vice cops confiscated in busts just didn't include those kinds of sports cars and boats, nor Wayfarer sunglasses.  And anything hotter looking than a Ford Mustang couldn't repeatedly be driven around in without blowing your cover.  But I think the real vice captain said, if they did have the money, they would have successfully employed a Porsche or Ferrari---cuz no crook at that time would expect the driver of being an honest COP, undercover or not.  So in a way, a white Ferrari would work perfectly for them.  For an occasional assignment.  That was an interesting car statement from a real cop--about how an overly flashy car COULD work.
I was a maturing college student back then, and even as an adult now, I think that MUST have been the way law enforcement against any sort of organized crime was conducted in THAT kind of slick-partyworld-cool public environment.  

The fashions?  Yikes.  Here in the '70s New York (Chicago too, I think) a pusher, mover, purveyor, dealer, HAD to invest a chunk of cash for his clothes and vehicles---it was a very real necessity for identifying himself and his power to the clients/competitors, and strutting his bravado to the police ("That's Slick Penny!  See his threads?  He's so cool, he don't even hide his image from the cops---he doesn't give a crap about what the fuzz thinks they can do to him!")  
Yes, Crockett and Tubbs did dress to EXCESS of fine clothing, but I feel sure some amount of "fine clothing" was what Miami criminals of the '80s did reach for in reality.  Just not to that much "excess".  Maybe just,... ONE piece from Armani now and then, not a whole daily wardrobe.  The vehicles too.  Surely the vehicle choices were the kind of "business toys" a criminal would want to be seen in, and would invest his cash in.  It's part of "business advertising", err, right?.

The "music" WAS real in a way.  I lived that music through college.  My chosen study was HARD, took lots of study, staying up nights, fearing "C"s and "D"s on some REALLY tough courses.  Starship, Phil Collins, Paul Young, Tears for Fears, they were IN your head as a "mood" that got you through (or suffered with you, LOL) in whatever you had to get done.  Miami Vice was the only show at the time to cue into that "reality of mood" we drew music.  (Today, I don't think we really draw that same sort of thing from music anymore.)

How not enough people get hit during a shootout?  That's a tough one to pinpoint.  In New York City, LOTS of criminals put up a really menacing display of how tough and professional and experienced in gun violence they are (young ones AND mature older ones who should know better).  But the moment guns actually have to be discharged, these so-called professionals MISS ALL OVER THE PLACE--LIFT THEIR HANDGUNS OR SUBS UP IN ONE GENERAL DIRECTION WHILE THEIR HEADS TURN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE NEAREST GETAWAY CAR----SPRAYING THE WEAPON BACK AND FORTH LIKE MY MOM USED TO SPRAY RAID WHEN SHE REACTED TO ONE LONELY WASP THAT STRAYED IN THROUGH THE KITCHEN WINDOW---too much spray and ALL OVER the place, cough-cough, mom STOP!  
This is why in the city, so many poor innocent bystanders have to ride to the hospital with bullet wounds, and only once in a while an actual gunman gets hit or killed in the original gunfire.  Yeah,...same gunplay today, Brooklyn, Queens, NYC,...come to our lovely place to live, Haha.  Face it, no tough hood wants to feel a bullet hit him----and only true military soldiers (and some well disciplined police) are trained and practiced well enough to control natural fears, and bear down accurately on his target when he's under fire---God bless those professionals, that's SKILL.  
LOL, maybe that's the real reason why the stormtroopers in Star Wars had such bad aim---they were just too busy wincing at the possibility of getting hit with a beam, that they couldn't hold their blasters steady.
Thankfully most of Vice's shootouts take place in the drug-meet place they picked (empty whatever under the overpass to wherever, or the locked wharf warehouse being finished whenever) so few bystanders are around to get hit.  But I have no problem believing how much criminals MISS what they are shooting at (at least until nearly the whole magazine is emptied by just anxious nervous spraying). 

Funny how Tubbs was never stupid enough to let his Caddy sit in the center of a potential shootout----Crockett's car was protected by.... "contract with Ferarri" forcefield.

Oh, oh, oh---and I remember the captain from that vice precinct saying that the electronic microphones and wires Switek and Zito were introducing, WERE very accurate---and it was actually making his precinct cops a little nervous (they didn't want hoodlums to start to realize this real technology was being used against them).  

Edited January 27, 2022 by Augusta