Great TV Series that you wish hadn't gone wrong and died...

[fakespyder]

The series Werewolf, (while admittedly not great), has an excellent soundtrack from Sylvester Levay which I would kill for. It was never released

I've cued up the video to a particularly beautiful piece of music that has stayed in my head ever since I heard it as a teenager:

 

 

[Ferrariman]

Well, it never went wrong but “Freaks & Geeks” was never given a fair shot.  It was the most realistic depiction of high school I’ve ever seen. Anyone who’s ever gone to high school can relate to these characters and their problems, good or bad.   NBC moved this show’s time slot around so much that people must’ve givenup on it and it was cancelled after only 18 episodes. What a shame!

[MrsEvanFreed]

On 8/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, wolfie1996 said:

Do you mean the full 4 series they sold? I got that as well as both parts of series 1. Which I might add was far better presented than the Mill Creek stuff but hey, you have to take what you can get... NO Nights In White Satin in Nobody Gets Out Of Here Alive in either which was exceptionally disappointing as it was a very moving scene, perfectly enhanced by the music used. Luckily someone put the appropriate  scene on Youtube and managed to add back the original music and very moving it is too.I've said on here before now that Sonny's main relationships were with his colleagues and I think it's also true of Vinnie Terranova. The closeness  that developed between him and his "adversary" Sonny Steelgrave was beautifully described as that arc went on. And as a reviewer said, there was no black and white but a thousand shades of grey. I find these relationships more convincing and more enduring than the male/female ones. They're like warriors. It forms a bond.

Yes.

 

That didn't include the S2 Dead Dog Records storyarc.

[wolfie1996]

16 hours ago, MrsEvanFreed said:

Yes.

 

That didn't include the S2 Dead Dog Records storyarc.

I don't think any of the dvds did. But at least part of it is still on youtube.

[Miami Beau]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:01 PM, wolfie1996 said:

Did nobody ever watch "Wiseguy"? The first series was brilliant! However slowly became  less consistently good and by series 4 "Vinnie" (Ken Wahl) had left. I think that series only had 9 episodes which proved people weren't interested without him. No fancy cars, guns, MTV  music, clothes, but certainly to start with some excellent writing and acting. I loved it. (And still watch the dvds.)

I did start watching the show earlier this year. The first season is brilliant and I highly recommend. The season featured various actors who’d previously starred in either Miami Vice or Crime Story. If your a Miami Vice fan, you’ll get a kick out of seeing these actors pop up from time to time. 

With that said, I got to give credit to the late Ray Sharkey who absolutely blew me away with his performance as Sonny Steelgrave. I didn’t think much of his performance as Bobby Profile in Season 2’s Tale Of The Goat, but wow, his 9 episode story arc in Wiseguy is an award level performance. It’s just a shame he lived such a demeaning personal life. 

And the later Mel Profit story arc starring Kevin Spacey was also pretty decent. Spacey had just starred in the Season 2 opener for Crime Story. Here, Spacey really gets to showcase his talents. Also Evan Freed himself (William Russ) plays a pivotal role in this arc. It’s just strange because he’ll always be Evan to me and there he is chatting to Kevin Spacey. I felt though, as the story went on and the Mel Profit character went into decline, I started to loose interest. I also thought the final episode of Wiseguy season 1 was very lacklustre. 

Season 2 started off pretty poor as well. Paul Guilfoyle from Season 4’s Death and the Lady shows up as this weird racist character which was interesting. The show really picked up in mid season 2 when Frank Mosca himself (Stanley Tucci) shows up as this crime boss. No joke, there is actually a Miami Vice Frank Mosca reference in one of the episodes he’s in. After that arc finished the Dead Dog Records arc started and I ended up quitting the show 3 episodes in. This was mainly due to the quality of episodes I was watching being in 320k. Barely watchable but this is due to the fact the Dead Dog Records arc was removed from the dvd releases. From what I saw, Glenn Frey was great as this record producer but that said, the overall tone seemed very bombastic and outlandish at times and felt like the show was trying to be something it wasn’t. 

Just to add, the 1987/1988 tv season was the pure gold if you loved Cop Shows. You had Wiseguy (Season 1), Crime Story (Season 2), and Miami Vice (Season 4) all being broadcast at the same time. And all these seasons had some very strong episodes which would of made for some must watch tv back in the 80s. 

 

[fakespyder]

I remember that Wiseguy Nights in white satin scene @wolfie1996. I hate to hear they'd butcher it by taking the music out.

What music (if any) did they put into the scene?

I understand there are licensing issues, but once a show is made you should not be able to go back and remove a vital ingredient like the soundtrack. 

 

I have an old MV DVD with Calderone's return music changed. They replaced "Voices" with "Can't turn back", and "What's love got to do with it?" with "There's goes my Pride"

Edited August 11, 2022 by fakespyder

[wolfie1996]

9 hours ago, fakespyder said:

I remember that Wiseguy Nights in white satin scene @wolfie1996. I hate to hear they'd butcher it by taking the music out.

What music (if any) did they put into the scene?

I understand there are licensing issues, but once a show is made you should not be able to go back and remove a vital ingredient like the soundtrack. 

 

I have an old MV DVD with Calderone's return music changed. They replaced "Voices" with "Can't turn back", and "What's love got to do with it?" with "There's goes my Pride"

Fully agree!!! and from what I remember it was replaced by what I call elevator music, rendering the whole emotional scene completely meaningless. Their expressions and exchange of glances  etc tallied beautifully with the original music but if you didn't know this, you'd wonder what the director had been playing at!  On the dvds , the music arc arc has been completely excluded !!! though some episodes remain on youtube. As far as NIWS is concerned, "vital" is the very word for it. That seems a poor replacement too, the substitute you mention for the Calderone's return episode! Grr!

Edited August 11, 2022 by wolfie1996
clarification.

[wolfie1996]

21 hours ago, Miami Beau said:

I did start watching the show earlier this year. The first season is brilliant and I highly recommend. The season featured various actors who’d previously starred in either Miami Vice or Crime Story. If your a Miami Vice fan, you’ll get a kick out of seeing these actors pop up from time to time. 

With that said, I got to give credit to the late Ray Sharkey who absolutely blew me away with his performance as Sonny Steelgrave. I didn’t think much of his performance as Bobby Profile in Season 2’s Tale Of The Goat, but wow, his 9 episode story arc in Wiseguy is an award level performance. It’s just a shame he lived such a demeaning personal life. 

And the later Mel Profit story arc starring Kevin Spacey was also pretty decent. Spacey had just starred in the Season 2 opener for Crime Story. Here, Spacey really gets to showcase his talents. Also Evan Freed himself (William Russ) plays a pivotal role in this arc. It’s just strange because he’ll always be Evan to me and there he is chatting to Kevin Spacey. I felt though, as the story went on and the Mel Profit character went into decline, I started to loose interest. I also thought the final episode of Wiseguy season 1 was very lacklustre. 

Season 2 started off pretty poor as well. Paul Guilfoyle from Season 4’s Death and the Lady shows up as this weird racist character which was interesting. The show really picked up in mid season 2 when Frank Mosca himself (Stanley Tucci) shows up as this crime boss. No joke, there is actually a Miami Vice Frank Mosca reference in one of the episodes he’s in. After that arc finished the Dead Dog Records arc started and I ended up quitting the show 3 episodes in. This was mainly due to the quality of episodes I was watching being in 320k. Barely watchable but this is due to the fact the Dead Dog Records arc was removed from the dvd releases. From what I saw, Glenn Frey was great as this record producer but that said, the overall tone seemed very bombastic and outlandish at times and felt like the show was trying to be something it wasn’t. 

Just to add, the 1987/1988 tv season was the pure gold if you loved Cop Shows. You had Wiseguy (Season 1), Crime Story (Season 2), and Miami Vice (Season 4) all being broadcast at the same time. And all these seasons had some very strong episodes which would of made for some must watch tv back in the 80s. 

 

Hey thanks for such a great resumé of the Wiseguy series or at least part of it! You are SO right about Ray Sharkey, the 9 episodes (not counting the dream sequence one) were award worthy indeed and absolutely riveting. The ambivalence of the relationship between him and Vinnie was perfectly illustrated and completely believable. And as one of the story editors Eric Blakeney commented, it was Vinnie rather than Sonny who was the betrayer..."Vinnie was a de facto good guy in that he went into there to arrest the bad guy......but he was betraying a friend. Sonny...was completely open and honest and gave himself over to this relationship, and he was the bad guy.So in the relationship between the two of them, Sonny was pure and Vinnie was the deceiver, and that for me was the  series...Sonny was a fool to his emotions..What really was happening here was a guy who loved this other guy so much.Sonny had lost his brother, he embraced a surrogate brother and was blind to Brutus. He'd fallen in love with his betrayer." This is absolutely true and Ray S. gave the performance of a lifetime. I don't know anything about his private life but I have read he took a lot of drugs and eventually died of AIDS. Nonetheless he was so popular as a character that everyone (viewers, cast etc) wanted the arc to be extended but Stephen Cannell said no. I think myself it should have been. Series one was far superior to the succeeding ones. As you say, it was great seeing "Evan" in the Mel Proffit arc- he played a great character and once again provided a good focus for the emotional Vinnie to become close to. Again you never doubted the rapport between them..though I agree that the ending was too low key. As you say, the Stanley Tucci appearances were really good in series 2! Wasn't overimpressed by the white supremacy plot and the music arc left me a bit unmoved. (Agreed that Glenn Frey brightened it up though ) I think this was because the tension was starting to fall off. Vinnie was no longer walking a knife edge, constantly in danger of losing his cover (and his life), he was actually living at home and during the music arc particularly appeared to be remarkably light -hearted , not to say frivolous. I sometimes wonder whose idea it was to lose the original darkness of the first series. Series 3  was losing its grip I felt and running out of ideas. And  ended in an unsatisafactory manner after less and less presence of Vinnie himself. That he'd left completely by series 4 was the kiss of death and I think there were only 9 episodes before it finished. Fully agree with your final comment regarding the 1987/1988 tv season cop show wise! Pure gold indeed!

[Miami Beau]

21 hours ago, wolfie1996 said:

Hey thanks for such a great resumé of the Wiseguy series or at least part of it! You are SO right about Ray Sharkey, the 9 episodes (not counting the dream sequence one) were award worthy indeed and absolutely riveting. The ambivalence of the relationship between him and Vinnie was perfectly illustrated and completely believable. And as one of the story editors Eric Blakeney commented, it was Vinnie rather than Sonny who was the betrayer..."Vinnie was a de facto good guy in that he went into there to arrest the bad guy......but he was betraying a friend. Sonny...was completely open and honest and gave himself over to this relationship, and he was the bad guy.So in the relationship between the two of them, Sonny was pure and Vinnie was the deceiver, and that for me was the  series...Sonny was a fool to his emotions..What really was happening here was a guy who loved this other guy so much.Sonny had lost his brother, he embraced a surrogate brother and was blind to Brutus. He'd fallen in love with his betrayer." This is absolutely true and Ray S. gave the performance of a lifetime. I don't know anything about his private life but I have read he took a lot of drugs and eventually died of AIDS. Nonetheless he was so popular as a character that everyone (viewers, cast etc) wanted the arc to be extended but Stephen Cannell said no. I think myself it should have been. Series one was far superior to the succeeding ones. As you say, it was great seeing "Evan" in the Mel Proffit arc- he played a great character and once again provided a good focus for the emotional Vinnie to become close to. Again you never doubted the rapport between them..though I agree that the ending was too low key. As you say, the Stanley Tucci appearances were really good in series 2! Wasn't overimpressed by the white supremacy plot and the music arc left me a bit unmoved. (Agreed that Glenn Frey brightened it up though ) I think this was because the tension was starting to fall off. Vinnie was no longer walking a knife edge, constantly in danger of losing his cover (and his life), he was actually living at home and during the music arc particularly appeared to be remarkably light -hearted , not to say frivolous. I sometimes wonder whose idea it was to lose the original darkness of the first series. Series 3  was losing its grip I felt and running out of ideas. And  ended in an unsatisafactory manner after less and less presence of Vinnie himself. That he'd left completely by series 4 was the kiss of death and I think there were only 9 episodes before it finished. Fully agree with your final comment regarding the 1987/1988 tv season cop show wise! Pure gold indeed!

Hey @wolfie1996, great comments as usual and you make some great points. You mentioned Vinnie’s living arrangements during season 2 which I’d forgotten about. I dunno, it just lost its way. I wish Steelgrave had escaped and maybe returned fully in season 2 as a father figure to Vinnie. Wasted opportunity’s. 

[Augusta]

I used to watch Wiseguy religiously.  And that says a lot about its quality, because I normally can't STAND shows about mobsters and organized criminals butchering what they want and laughing proud.  Mobsters make me sick with the way the public so admires their audacity.  But Wiseguy I watched and liked.
I watched it even through the Debra Harry story, and the clothing mills corruption story, and by then the main actors had changed.  And it still held weight with me as a competent show amongst a pile of dumb tv series at the time.  

But it's hard to keep up the values in a show after enough major changes, and I think Wiseguy was built on such a HIGH shelf of quality to begin with, that it would be impossible not to let gradual changes bring down the series' overall power.  

But for a while there, what a show!  NO ONE portrayed "smart infiltrator inside the Mob" like Wiseguy.  You sympathized with EVERYONE in those stories, victim, Fed, mother, and villain, and villain's twisted sister.  I'd shoot Deniro in the face in Goodfellas or Casino in a heartbeat---yet for some reason I know I'd hesitate to shoot Steelgrave or even Lococco when the time comes.  The episodes accomplished that effect well, and without any of the "milk the audience for as long as you can and never give them an ending" technique like Game of Thrones or Walking Dead.