USS Johnston found (and identified)

[jpaul1]

not quite a strange news, just a news

maybe this name means nothing for you. And i must say it meant nothing to me before reading the story of the Battle of Leyte gulf (pacific war). That destroyer fought alone a fleet of several japanese battleships, cruisers, heavy cruisers, and destroyers to protect a US fleet of light carriers who was condemned to certain destruction. the destroyer charged alone, and fought that invincible giant. the destroyer suffered heavy losses. And when a japanese cruiser passed by the agonizing ship, the cruiser commander came out, and saluted the men on the wreck. to make it short, the light carriers fleet, after having lost 2 light carriers, was miraculously saved by the japanese fleet commander Kurita who having been under extreme pressure during the days before decided to withdraw. the japanese fleet was faster, and if Kurita had pursued, the whole US carriers fleet would had been atomized. The main US fleet being far away north. So after having explained the context a little bit, the USS Johnston has been found, and identified last year. its wreck lies by 6400 m (21 000 ft) near the Philippines

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/uss-johnston-worlds-deepest-shipwreck-intl-hnk/index.html

if you're interested by that story, and the one of all the heroes who fought valiantly at the battle of Leyte gulf, and Samar i highly recommend Thomas J. Cutler work The battle of Leyte gulf

Edited July 26, 2022 by jpaul1

[pahonu]

1 hour ago, jpaul1 said:

not quite a strange news, just a news

maybe this name means nothing for you. And i must say it meant nothing to me before reading the story of the Battle of Leyte gulf (pacific war). That destroyer fought alone a fleet of several japanese battleships, cruisers, heavy cruisers, and destroyers to protect a US fleet of light carriers who was condemned to certain destruction. the destroyer charged alone, and fought that invincible giant. the destroyer suffered heavy losses. And when a japanese cruiser passed by the agonizing ship, the cruiser commander came out, and saluted the men on the wreck. to make it short, the light carriers fleet, after having lost 2 light carriers, was miraculously saved by the japanese fleet commander Kurita who having been under extreme pressure during the days before decided to withdraw. the japanese fleet was faster, and if Kurita had pursued, the whole US carriers fleet would had been atomized. The main US fleet being far away north. So after having explained the context a little bit, the USS Johnston have been found, and identified last year. its wreck lies by 6400 m (21 000 ft) near the Philippines

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/uss-johnston-worlds-deepest-shipwreck-intl-hnk/index.html

if you're interested by that story, and the one of all the heroes who fought valiantly at the battle of Leyte gulf, and Samar i highly recommend Thomas J. Cutler work The battle of Leyte gulf

About 8-10 years ago my social studies department arranged for a WWII veteran to come and speak to our students.  He was in his early 90’s then and recounted his participation at Leyte Gulf, particularly the Battle of Surigao Straight.  He was a radar operator, having been trained just months earlier in San Diego, and was now in the largest naval battle of the war.  Some argue it was the largest naval battle in history.  It’s a fascinating story either way.

Surigao also happened to be the last battleship engagement in naval history.  He then described how the morning after the battle as American aircraft from a nearby escort carrier pursued the remnants of Japan’s retreating fleet, the US fleet remaining in the straight came under kamikaze attack from Japanese aircraft flying from land bases nearby.  This was the first organized attack of that kind, and the students were absolutely riveted as he described how fear and disbelief spread among the crews at these suicide attacks.  

Edited June 25, 2022 by pahonu

[Gary1911A1]

Here's a video on it: 

Glad to see I'm not the only History Buff on here.

 

[jpaul1]

1 hour ago, pahonu said:

About 8-10 years ago my social studies department arranged for a WWII veteran to come and speak to our students.  He was in his early 90’s then and recounted his participation at Leyte Gulf, particularly the Battle of Surigao Straight.  He was a radar operator, having been trained just months earlier in San Diego, and was now in the largest naval battle of the war.  Some argue it was the largest naval battle in history.  It’s a fascinating story either way.

Surigao also happened to be the last battleship engagement in naval history.  He then described how the morning after the battle as American aircraft from a nearby escort carrier pursued the remnants of Japan’s retreating fleet, the US fleet remaining in the straight came under kamikaze attack from Japanese aircraft flying from land bases nearby.  This was the first organized attack of that kind, and the students were absolutely riveted as he described how fear and disbelief spread among the crews at these suicide attacks.  

i could become a kid literally listening to a real vet recounting these mythical battles. not sure there are still some alive though.. yeah during the Surigao battle some PT boats participated, and it started at night. these PT boats operators were real warriors. because they were attacking much bigger ships in total darkness

49 minutes ago, Gary1911A1 said:

Here's a video on it: 

Glad to see I'm not the only History Buff on here.

 

sadly blocked in my country (Europe)..

[miamijimf]

Thanks jpaull1 for bringing up this story.  I'm very familiar with it because my father Chief Electricians Mate Charles Staubach was aboard the USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, a destroyer escort even smaller than the USS Johnston when it was engaged in this unequal battle.  Amazingly Victor Vescovo ocean explorer, former US Navy Officer, mountain climber, and private equity investor along with his crew and a submersible named "Limiting Factor" have  found the wreck of the USS Samuel B. Roberts, sunk during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  The find was just a few days ago.  At the U.S. Naval Academy, in Alumni Hall it is known as "the destroyer escort that fought like a battleship."  Despite being battered by heavy rounds they managed to damage a Japanese Cruiser Chōkai’ with a torpedo.  According to first hand accounts when the Chōkai’ exploded and sank the explosion also sank another Japanese vessel that had pulled up alongside to help.  My father traveled from Miami to join the newly commissioned USS Roberts.  He was mortally wounded during the fight and died a few hours later in a life raft.  I was born in July 44 but the battle was in October and he never got to see me.  He did see a picture of me according to a surviving shipmate.   Remarkably the wreck is fairly intact.  Resting at 6,895 meters, this ship, called the "Sammy B." by its crew, is now the deepest shipwreck ever located and surveyed.  Victor Vescovo has posted great underwater photos and a video on his Twitter account.  Our country owes him and his talented technicians a debt of gratitude for helping to preserve the heroic legacy of the ships and crews of Taffy3.  I highly recommend The Spirit of the Sammy B. by the Captain, Robert W. Copeland.

The USS Samuel B. Roberts, DE-413

Edited June 26, 2022 by miamijimf

[jpaul1]

It's an amazing story jim. yeah i knew the Roberts story too. But i was far for thinking i was talking to the son of a true american legend. Because this is what your dad was, without any shadow of a doubt

[Robbie C.]

10 hours ago, miamijimf said:

Thanks jpaull1 for bringing up this story.  I'm very familiar with it because my father Chief Electricians Mate Charles Staubach was aboard the USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, a destroyer escort even smaller than the USS Johnston when it was engaged in this unequal battle.  Amazingly Victor Vescovo ocean explorer, former US Navy Officer, mountain climber, and private equity investor along with his crew and a submersible named "Limiting Factor" have  found the wreck of the USS Samuel B. Roberts, sunk during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  The find was just a few days ago.  At the U.S. Naval Academy, in Alumni Hall it is known as "the destroyer escort that fought like a battleship."  Despite being battered by heavy rounds they managed to damage a Japanese Cruiser Chōkai’ with a torpedo.  According to first hand accounts when the Chōkai’ exploded and sank the explosion also sank another Japanese vessel that had pulled up alongside to help.  My father traveled from Miami to join the newly commissioned USS Roberts.  He was mortally wounded during the fight and died a few hours later in a life raft.  I was born in July 44 but the battle was in October and he never got to see me.  He did see a picture of me according to a surviving shipmate.  Victor Vescovo has posted great underwater photos and a video on his Twitter account.  Remarkably the wreck is fairly intact.  Resting at 6,895 meters, this ship, called the "Sammy B." by its crew, is now the deepest shipwreck ever located and surveyed.  Victor Vescovo has posted great underwater photos and a video on his Twitter account.  Our country owes him and his talented technicians a debt of gratitude for helping to preserve the heroic legacy of the ships and crews of Taffy3.  I highly recommend The Spirit of the Sammy B. by the Captain, Robert W. Copeland.

The USS Samuel B. Roberts, DE-413

The charge of the small boys, if I remember correctly; so-called because DEs and DDs were refereed to as "little boys" in navy radio shorthand at the time. The DE's main purpose was to provide anti-submarine support and inexpensive escorts for convoys and larger ship formations. No one anticipated they'd go after battleships, yet that's what they did at Leyte.

[jpaul1]

didn't know the Chokai fate was similar to the princetown and Birmingham one. the Birmingham didn't sunk, but it was so heavily damaged that when it arrived at the repair dock the contractors who were in charge of the clean up refused to proceed because of all the rotten flesh. it's the military who finally had to do it

lot of stuff hadn't been anticipated in the Taffy3 story. orders were sent but lacked of clarity. Sadly jim dad paid the price for this. when Taffy3 got attacked it took hours for someone to realize that no rescue team had been sent. Thanks to a guy named Adair, it's finally the amphibious group who sent a rescue team on the carnage location. But i'm not blaming anyone. there was lot of pressure on both sides. the pressure was extreme on the commanders during these events

[Vicefan7777]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:45 AM, jpaul1 said:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/uss-johnston-worlds-deepest-shipwreck-intl-hnk/index.html

if you're interested by that story, and the one of all the heroes who fought valiantly at the battle of Leyte gulf, and Samar i highly recommend Thomas J. Cutler work The battle of Leyte gulf

I have been reading about WW2 since I picked up my first junior reader book at age 10.  This is a fascinating story of bravery.  I am currently reading Lost Victories by German General Manstein.  I am always looking for good reads about the war.  Thanks for recommending and I will get a copy.

[jpaul1]

You're welcome

[Augusta]

The press (now called the media) can be annoyingly wacky about such things. There are times when I'd like to slap the press one-upside their heads to make them more sensible, because some things truly are so humanly important that you make your effort to get details right before you make your effort to garnish ratings.   
I am somewhat knowledgeable about WWI Navy action in the Pacific, and the Samaar 'sacrafice-bunt' engagement is the stuff that makes Naval cadets tear up and wish "they could have a St Crispin's Henry V combat moment, like the Johnston crew had".  That codename "Taffy" honestly attracted me to the incident, from a time period when the military knew how to select a codename that does its purpose.

The incident is about as LEGENDARY as anything could be in WWII naval pacific, so when I read from so many online and heard from so many news broadcasts that "the long-lost ship was finally discovered"---that's the first blatant wrong we want to correct.  The Johnston was never lost (as in whereabouts unknown).  You can't misplace or lose a single ship that was in the Samaar shootout---no WAY the Navy would possibly forget or not know the position of the machines that danced that opera in Taffy 3.  The ship (ships I must say) went down in the same spot (which is what made it such a hell of an OK Corral kind of skirmish).   We always knew it was there, and had marked the sunken hull for a good few years---we just couldn't until now get a camera lens near enough to the bow to read her name and confirm before stirring up families' emotions.  
LOL, up until two months ago, some online press were finally getting around to correcting themselves about the name of the destroyer being the "Johnston", and stop calling it the Johnson.   
Up until 1am last night US eastern standard time, I could swear I heard network tv news proclaiming the Samuel B Roberts as "tying the record for deepest sunken vessel"---Hahahaha, as if the crews of the Johnston and the Roberts (and the Japanese vessels lost in that battle) got together to compete on who could shot-put his boat the deepest into the ocean bottom....and the Johnston and Roberts WON, yaay!   

Geee, stuff like this, the prices paid in the past by our fathers and mothers, you can't afford to muff up and dishonor if you want to report about them.  LOL< it might be best if the press just go and do reports on racoon families playing on the highway.  That way, when one gets run over, the media can mis-report about how many racoon wives showed up at the funeral.

[pahonu]

11 hours ago, Augusta said:

The press (now called the media) can be annoyingly wacky about such things. There are times when I'd like to slap the press one-upside their heads to make them more sensible, because some things truly are so humanly important that you make your effort to get details right before you make your effort to garnish ratings.   
I am somewhat knowledgeable about WWI Navy action in the Pacific, and the Samaar 'sacrafice-bunt' engagement is the stuff that makes Naval cadets tear up and wish "they could have a St Crispin's Henry V combat moment, like the Johnston crew had".  That codename "Taffy" honestly attracted me to the incident, from a time period when the military knew how to select a codename that does its purpose.

The incident is about as LEGENDARY as anything could be in WWII naval pacific, so when I read from so many online and heard from so many news broadcasts that "the long-lost ship was finally discovered"---that's the first blatant wrong we want to correct.  The Johnston was never lost (as in whereabouts unknown).  You can't misplace or lose a single ship that was in the Samaar shootout---no WAY the Navy would possibly forget or not know the position of the machines that danced that opera in Taffy 3.  The ship (ships I must say) went down in the same spot (which is what made it such a hell of an OK Corral kind of skirmish).   We always knew it was there, and had marked the sunken hull for a good few years---we just couldn't until now get a camera lens near enough to the bow to read her name and confirm before stirring up families' emotions.  
LOL, up until two months ago, some online press were finally getting around to correcting themselves about the name of the destroyer being the "Johnston", and stop calling it the Johnson.   
Up until 1am last night US eastern standard time, I could swear I heard network tv news proclaiming the Samuel B Roberts as "tying the record for deepest sunken vessel"---Hahahaha, as if the crews of the Johnston and the Roberts (and the Japanese vessels lost in that battle) got together to compete on who could shot-put his boat the deepest into the ocean bottom....and the Johnston and Roberts WON, yaay!   

Geee, stuff like this, the prices paid in the past by our fathers and mothers, you can't afford to muff up and dishonor if you want to report about them.  LOL< it might be best if the press just go and do reports on racoon families playing on the highway.  That way, when one gets run over, the media can mis-report about how many racoon wives showed up at the funeral.

I don’t think I agree with that assessment of the press.  I’ve read more than one article about the topic, the latest being from NBC News a few minutes ago.  That article was pretty clear about the vessel’s exact resting place (in two pieces) finally being pinpointed in the area of the battle, not that it was ever lost.  
 

They explained the process lasted many days, using side-scan radar, at a depth never before technologically possible.  They made no claim that it was ever lost or its whereabouts unknown.  They also didn’t claim it was the deepest shipwreck ever.  Rather, they emphasized it may be the deepest wreck ever to be explored.  The technology may also allow for another vessel, the Gambier Bay which is still “unlocated” to be precisely located and explored based on the place of their sinking.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by pahonu

[jpaul1]

yeah let's not forget that it was an era there was no GPS around back then. they certainly knew the area of sinking but i doubt they knew the exact spot. plus you don't know how the wreck will finally lay. you have ocean currents, maybe there's an air pocket into the hull. you don't know where the wreck will finally fall. finding back a wreck is often an arduous task. especially at such depts

regarding the dept 'competition'. yes this is certainly a small detail. But let's not forget that medias are companies evolving into a system called capitalism. they need to be attractive. thus sometimes their sensational headlines. should we judge them for that..

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, jpaul1 said:

yeah let's not forget that it was an era there was no GPS around back then. they certainly knew the area of sinking but i doubt they knew the exact spot. plus you don't know how the wreck will finally lay. you have ocean currents, maybe there's an air pocket into the hull. you don't know where the wreck will finally fall. finding back a wreck is often an arduous task. especially at such depts

regarding the dept 'competition'. yes this is certainly a small detail. But let's not forget that medias are companies evolving into a system called capitalism. they need to be attractive. thus sometimes their sensational headlines. should we judge them for that..

Good points, all.

I think sometimes readers don’t get too far past the headlines, maybe several paragraphs in, and many don’t fully complete articles.  Long format writing and analysis in publications like The Economist or US News & World Report is becoming less common as online news has taken over.

For journalists at newspapers this can cause problems.  For decades they have written in a particular style that emphasizes getting the most basic facts into the opening paragraphs and then adding in more and more detail as the article progressed.  This format (AP) was used to ease editing if stories had to be cut short to fit in any given day’s newspaper.  The story would still make sense if the last few paragraphs were clipped and the whole thing wouldn’t have to be re-written.  If the whole story is published but readers don’t complete it, lots of detail is missed.

I learned all about this in a journalism class I had in college.  It’s stayed with me over the last 30+ years whenever I read the news.  I also had a really interesting photojournalism class!

[cageyJG]

I was just at Pearl Harbor yesterday.