Season 5: Overall Assessment

[Assasinge]

You know the points you make are pretty spot on. In fact I can attest to them as well, going through a S4 rewatch right now and eventually 5 that I remember absolutely nothing from season 5. Nothing. My memory sucks in general but I don't remember any episodes from except for the final episode, which I also thought sucked and was a lame way to end the show. At least the montage they made made me cry I guess.

[Dadrian]

8 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

You know the points you make are pretty spot on. In fact I can attest to them as well, going through a S4 rewatch right now and eventually 5 that I remember absolutely nothing from season 5. Nothing. My memory sucks in general but I don't remember any episodes from except for the final episode, which I also thought sucked and was a lame way to end the show. At least the montage they made made me cry I guess.

“Fruit of the Poison Tree” is a good one. 

[ViceFanMan]

28 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

You know the points you make are pretty spot on. In fact I can attest to them as well, going through a S4 rewatch right now and eventually 5 that I remember absolutely nothing from season 5. Nothing. My memory sucks in general but I don't remember any episodes from except for the final episode, which I also thought sucked and was a lame way to end the show. At least the montage they made made me cry I guess.

There actually are some good episodes from Season 5...but there are some bizarre ones too, that were a little off the radar.   I too, did NOT like the finale—very lame ending!   But yes, the montage itself was a nice touch.

[ramboraph4life]

I enjoyed the ending. It didn't end on a cliffhanger (like other shows ala ALF). It didn't end on a 'WTF' (like Seinfeld). It didn't end with one or both of them dying. It wasn't that insulting (The X-Files revivals aka Season 10 & 11 endings? Those were extremely insulting) or made me go 'Huh?' (like the Quantum Leap one where a title card says 'And Sam never returned home, which I HATED). 

There are a couple things I would have changed. I do think the last song should have been 'In the Air Tonight' (granted, it wouldn't work for the visual of the scene...I just mention it cause it's the song people remember the most, and a good reminder of the Pilot) and have the song continue playing with the montage. And I think Edwards James Olmo should have shook Crocket and Tubbs hands and maybe have Olmos say 'Good Luck' or 'Good Bye' to both of them instead of Just the Stare.

But and I know I mentioned this in another thread...I like at the end them re-using the line from the end of the first episode. Before people say it...yes, I Know they just piped in the dialogue from the Pilot as if to go 'hey, remember this?' for the viewer to smile about...but I like to think the makers of the show had an extra 'wink' for it too.

That one day these characters did see each other again, as 'Maybe' becomes the final word of the entire show. At least that's how I like to see it.

Maybe Tubbs changes his mind, quits the force in New York (or even changed his mind at the airport) and all this time him and Crockett have been 'down further south' for Brazilian Vice or Caribbean Vice.

[mjcmmv]

8 hours ago, Dadrian said:

“Fruit of the Poison Tree” is a good one. 

I agree. Line of Fire had some great moments, too, especially when you hear Tim Truman's "Helicopter" playing when Tubbs is searching for the St. Vitus. 

I know some didn't like The Lost Madonna, but I thought it was fun, especially when Sonny is chasing the art thief in the airport and when he's "arresting" Julia at the end. Miami Squeeze and Bad Timing had its moments, too,  but they weren't great. 

Free Fall had potential but as the story evolved, I think the writers lost their way. I remember rumor had it there was an alternate ending and  Crockett and Tubbs were supposed to get killed. Considering how they kept dropping clues that might happen, maybe that was true. For some reason, they changed their minds and came up with that lame "badges in the dirt" scene.

I love the montage, too but I don't watch it often-it reminds me how I felt when the show came to an end! 

Edited November 10, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Dadrian]

I don’t know if anyone watched “Dexter” from HBO, but that was by far the worst ending to a great show that I’ve ever seen. 

[Assasinge]

46 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I agree. Line of Fire had some great moments, too, especially when you hear Tim Truman's "Helicopter" playing when Tubbs is searching for the St. Vitus. 

I know some didn't like The Lost Madonna, but I thought it was fun, especially when Sonny is chasing the art thief in the airport and when he's "arresting" Julia at the end. Miami Squeeze and Bad Timing had its moments, too,  but they weren't great. 

Free Fall had potential but as the story evolved, I think the writers lost their way. I remember rumor had it there was an alternate ending and  Crockett and Tubbs were supposed to get killed. Considering how they kept dropping clues that might happen, maybe that was true. For some reason, they changed their minds and came up with that lame "badges in the dirt" scene.

I love the montage, too but I don't watch it often-it reminds me how I felt when the show came to an end! 

I actually loved The Lady Madonna, it's what introduced me to Eric Claptoon and that song "She's Waiting" has become a new favorite of mine eversince. I also believe Fruit of the Poison Tree had the nightclub scene with Robert Plant playing too...oh how this show has shown me so much good music.

[Tom]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

I don’t know if anyone watched “Dexter” from HBO, but that was by far the worst ending to a great show that I’ve ever seen. 

Just watched a few eps but how did it end badly? A cop who behaves like Hannibal Lecter in his spare time does not leave much leeway for writers for the final episode I would suppose?

[Dadrian]

11 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

I also believe Fruit of the Poison Tree had the nightclub scene with Robert Plant playing too

I think it was actually a party at Enriquez’s house, but yes—great song/scene!

[Assasinge]

Ah you might be right, it's been forever since I watched anything from Season 5 so I'm probably misremembering. Either way yeah, I love that bit.

[Leigh Burne]

On 11/10/2019 at 3:53 AM, ramboraph4life said:

Also, the dwindling budget for songs (aka not having many of the great/recognizable ones that helped make the show part of what Miami Vice...well Miami Vice) very much hurts it.

Despite being an avid defender of the final season, this one bothers me too. There's still some great music in it, but overall there are far fewer amazing songs and far too many forgettable ones. Plus a lot of the episodes have "fake" instrumental songs composed by Truman in place of actual tunes (I generally love his darker score for the season, but its really obvious when they got him to fill instead of paying an artist for an actual song).

[SwissTubbs]

Am 16.9.2019 um 14:18 schrieb RedDragon86:

3 was solid but they were still rehashing episodes from 1&2,

The show for the 3rd season could have easily have went back to the gritty formula we saw in season 1, problem was they couldn't because the main people were no longer involved.

If the show had started in 1984 with season 3 it would not have captured the public's eye and changed television. Seasons that followed 1&2 were just another cop show

 

To this day i really dont get the dislike for Season 3 at all.
I dont see a rehash from 1&2 at all. Season 3 had some of the strongest storys of the whole show!
And its very gritty, more serious but without losing the style. In Fact season 3 had its own style which still is very refreshing to me that they had the balls to do this. The Problems with style started in Season 4 because people didnt accept the new S3 style and then they tried to please everybody and made a strange mix between styles. But Season 3 has an own identity and i loved that.

From a writing standpoint in my opinion Season 2 was even inferior. A lot of mediocre Episodes that only lives because of the style and one real clunker with vodoo. Of Course in Season 3 there are a couple of mediocre episodes too but Season 2 has more of them. What i wanna say is i dont get why Season 3 always gets marked als inferior to season 1+2 only because it had the balls to be different and more serious. For me together with Season 1 its the best written Season of the show.
 

 

[Assasinge]

I think it probably gets knocked down because of the loss of the Daytona as well as some fashion changes here and there and Crockett's electric toothbrush haircut if I had to guess. But I do agree, I don't see why 3 gets so much hate either. I don't know if I can agree that 2 was inferior but I can see your point, 2 seemed to prefer style over substance in some episodes but 2 also has some of absolute favorite ones like Little Miss Dangerous and Florence Italy and the awesome Prodigal Son. Voodoo was a pretty dumb episode though I'll admit, but I guess it beats dealing with alien UFOs? Lol.

[RedDragon86]

7 hours ago, SwissTubbs said:

 

To this day i really dont get the dislike for Season 3 at all.
I dont see a rehash from 1&2 at all. Season 3 had some of the strongest storys of the whole show!
And its very gritty, more serious but without losing the style. In Fact season 3 had its own style which still is very refreshing to me that they had the balls to do this. The Problems with style started in Season 4 because people didnt accept the new S3 style and then they tried to please everybody and made a strange mix between styles. But Season 3 has an own identity and i loved that.

From a writing standpoint in my opinion Season 2 was even inferior. A lot of mediocre Episodes that only lives because of the style and one real clunker with vodoo. Of Course in Season 3 there are a couple of mediocre episodes too but Season 2 has more of them. What i wanna say is i dont get why Season 3 always gets marked als inferior to season 1+2 only because it had the balls to be different and more serious. For me together with Season 1 its the best written Season of the show.
 

 

I don't dislike season 3. I think its a very good season, brilliant in fact. Just wished they had kept the same formula.

The famous atmospheric vibe the show created is absent in this season, but that's OK.

Way I see season 2 had style and substance, there is just more style and the writing is still excellent, I mean if you watch an episode like Bushido, Buddies, The Prodigal Son, Little Miss Dangerous or Bought and Paid are we just getting swept away by pure design?  Season 2 for some reason gets tagged for being style over and substance because they added more style while the writing in a lot of episodes was still strong. 

Its a misconception.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by RedDragon86

[mjcmmv]

33 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I don't dislike season 3. I think its a very good season, brilliant in fact. Just wished they had kept the same formula.

The famous atmospheric vibe the show created is absent in this season, but that's OK.

Way I see season 2 is it had style and substance. There is just more style and the writing is still excellent, I mean if you watch an episode like Bushido, Buddies, The Prodigal Son, Little Miss Dangerous or Bought and Paid are we just getting swept away by pure design?  Season 2 imo for some reason get tagged for being style over and substance because they added more style while the writing in a lot of episodes was still strong. 

Its a misconception.

 

In addition to the Season 2 episodes you mentioned RedDragon86, there are several others worth mentioning.  

Payback was written by an excellent novelist, Robert Crais. Also, OWTBDR was considered one of the show's best episodes. 

And I love Definitely Miami, which for me, was an excellent blend of style AND substance.

Every season had its clunkers. But there are always gems to be found.  

Edited November 15, 2019 by mjcmmv

[Leigh Burne]

4 hours ago, SwissTubbs said:

To this day i really dont get the dislike for Season 3 at all.

I've always thought the third season starts out really well but it runs out of steam towards the end. Extending it to 24 episodes did it no favours. There's a whole bunch of really forgettable episodes in the final third, and it has by far the weakest season finale of the entire run - "Lombard", "Sons and Lovers", "Mirror Image" and even "Freefall" walk all over "Heroes of the Revolution".

Edited November 15, 2019 by Leigh Burne

[ViceFanMan]

5 hours ago, SwissTubbs said:

 

To this day i really dont get the dislike for Season 3 at all.
I dont see a rehash from 1&2 at all. Season 3 had some of the strongest storys of the whole show!
And its very gritty, more serious but without losing the style. In Fact season 3 had its own style which still is very refreshing to me that they had the balls to do this. The Problems with style started in Season 4 because people didnt accept the new S3 style and then they tried to please everybody and made a strange mix between styles. But Season 3 has an own identity and i loved that.

From a writing standpoint in my opinion Season 2 was even inferior. A lot of mediocre Episodes that only lives because of the style and one real clunker with vodoo. Of Course in Season 3 there are a couple of mediocre episodes too but Season 2 has more of them. What i wanna say is i dont get why Season 3 always gets marked als inferior to season 1+2 only because it had the balls to be different and more serious. For me together with Season 1 its the best written Season of the show.
 

 

Totally agree that Season 3 had good episodes and even its own style or “identity” for MV. Totally disagree that Season 2 was inferior!  Sorry, but no way...Season 2 was the best overall, with storylines/plots/episodes (including the voodoo episode which would be something they’d encounter in Miami), characterization, style, music, color, etc...! All seasons had awesome episodes, and not-so-great ones. But, my biggest issue was when they changed writers and certain character storylines were suddenly dropped and never given closure and/or we never find out what happens. 

2 hours ago, mjcmmv said:

In addition to the Season 2 episodes you mentioned RedDragon86, there are several others worth mentioning.  

Payback was written by an excellent novelist, Robert Crais. Also, OWTBDR was considered one of the show's best episodes. 

And I love Definitely Miami, which for me, was an excellent blend of style AND substance.

Every season had its clunkers. But there are always gems to be found.  

Completely agree...every season had its “clunkers” (although in my opinion Season 2 didn’t really have many), but there’s always “gems” as well!  

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

Totally agree that Season 3 had good episodes and even its own style or “identity” for MV. Totally disagree that Season 2 was inferior!  Sorry, but no way...Season 2 was the best overall, with storylines/plots/episodes (including the voodoo episode which would be something they’d encounter in Miami), characterization, style, music, color, etc...! All seasons had awesome episodes, and not-so-great ones. But, my biggest issue was when they changed writers and certain character storylines were suddenly dropped and never given closure and/or we never find out what happens. 

Completely agree...every season had its “clunkers” (although in my opinion Season 2 didn’t really have many), but there’s always “gems” as well!  

And GTA Vice City added part of this to their game.There is even a mission with a coffin and voodoo priest inside 

I always enjoy "Tale Of The Goat" Clarence William lll is simply brilliant. 

"Stay here, stay here, stay here, for eternity"

Edited November 15, 2019 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

11 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

And GTA Vice City added part of this to their game.There is even a mission with a coffin and voodoo priest inside 

I always enjoy "Tale Of The Goat" Clarence William lll is simply brilliant. 

"Stay here, stay here, stay here, for eternity"

I love Tale of the Goat, one of my favorites!  Clarence Williams III is definitely brilliant...he “Remooove the barrier & walk among the living, and the dead...as he sees fit!”  

[Leigh Burne]

16 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

And GTA Vice City added part of this to their game.There is even a mission with a coffin and voodoo priest inside 

Vice City is by far the greatest Miami Vice video game ever made, you just happen to be playing the villain 

[Matt5]

4 hours ago, Leigh Burne said:

Vice City is by far the greatest Miami Vice video game ever made, you just happen to be playing the villain 

Yes definately - the best pal!

[Jack Gretsky]

Seasons 1 & 2 remain the best, but at least S5 was more consistently engaging than S4.  

1. World of Trouble: Great to see Dennis Farina's Lombard again. 

2. Line of Fire: Good story, intro for Joey Hardin. 

3. The Cell Within: Insane episode, but I like it in a Lynchian Fincherian way. 

4. Jack of All Trades: The annual "screwball" episode.  Quite entertaining. 

5. The Lost Madonna: Unusual premise concerning modern art.  And Elizabeth Berridge. 

Also good are Asian Cut, Hard Knocks, Fruit of the Poison Tree, To Have and To Hold, and Over the Line, and the series finale, Freefall, has some good bits.  I even like Miracle Man and Leap of Faith!

Because I'm more of a synth guy than a guitar guy, this was not a great season for music. Tim Truman's music was only good when it evoked Jan Hammer's work from previous shows. The grungy, squealing guitar sound was reflected in the song choices - these S5 episodes were lacking in awesome audio/visual song scenes.  But there were standouts including Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush's "Don't Give Up," Pink Floyd's "The Dogs of War," Ministry's "Stigmata," The Church's "Under the Milky Way," U2's "Desire," Eric Clapton's "She's Waiting," Bryan Ferry's "Bete Noire," Tanita Tikaram's "Twist in My Sobriety," Genesis' "Land of Confusion" (although it was buried in the sound mix), and King Swamp's "Year Zero." And, yes, I even like the Swingle Singers' Bach jazz from Jack of All Trades. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Jack Gretsky

[Dadrian]

I’m currently in Season 5 in my rotation. 

I loved it as a kid, then began to hate it through my 20s and 30s. 

I think my main problems were Jan Hammer’s absence and strange costumes. 

Over the last couple of years I’ve began to like it again, though. 

I find myself really liking the Tim Truman scores now—maybe in part because we got to communicate directly during my recent, very brief try with Facebook. Knowing that he listened to (and enjoyed) my Jan Hammer covers is quite humbling! He’s a nice guy, too. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Dadrian

[Tom]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

I’m currently in Season 5 in my rotation. 

I loved it as a kid, then began to hate it through my 20s and 30s. 

I think my main problems were Jan Hammer’s absence and strange costumes. 

Over the last couple of years I’ve began to like it again, though. 

I find myself really liking the Tim Truman scores now—maybe in part because we got to communicate directly during my recent, very brief try with Facebook. Knowing that he listened to (and enjoyed) my Jan Hammer covers is quite humbling! He’s a nice guy, too. 

Season 5 started in my country in 1992 (season 4 in late 1991), long after VICE was over. At that time, I had seen seasons 1-3 many times but 4 and then 5 was completely new. I was hooked with Truman´s guitars in season 5 (I later learnt from him that it was Michael Thompson) and the fresh look, although some episodes were weak and Crockett often absent.

Now, 30 years after, I realize that I mostly watch seasons 3-5 and hardly anymore 1 or 2, maybe as they look either too "old fashioned" (1) or too much style without substance (2) for me compared to the rest, except some bad episodes in later seasons.

Funny how preferences change over time.

[Dadrian]

@Tom s1-3 are still my favorites though