Season 5: Overall Assessment

[Assasinge]

That's true, Castillo was always Castillo no matter what the episode was haha

[Leigh Burne]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

Mann never wrote an episode, so why start at the end?

He wrote Golden Triangle (Part II).

[Robbie C.]

9 minutes ago, Leigh Burne said:

He wrote Golden Triangle (Part II).

I thought that was more a matter of fine tuning. He’s not the sole writing credit. In any case, it’s not much in the wider scope of the series. 

[vicegirl85]

I hate to give my opinion of S5 (although I already did in this same thread, LOL) because it's the season I feel least familiar with.  For me, the stories just weren't as engrossing once the Burnett saga (which I felt was very strong) was over.  Also I hated Sonny's scruffy, longhaired look and frayed clothing style.  Hate to be so superficial, but the show was lacking some of the things that attracted me in the first place.  I was extremely disappointed and felt let down by Freefall.  Not the series finale I had hoped for.

However, since joining this forum, I've rewatched some (not all!) of S5 and have reconsidered my initial judgments, formed at the time the show was still in its original network run.  Now I can see the burnout and the feelings of futility that the squad felt as in one case after another, the bad guys won or at least didn't get what they deserved.  And some of the law enforcement community was in league with the crooks, or at least was trying to manipulate them to catch bigger fish without caring about the direct effects on the street.  Sonny's look that I hated was a reflection of his burned-out state.

While I can understand why some feel DJ had mentally checked out (and I was as frustrated as anyone when he didn't appear in an ep or had a very small role), I prefer to think he was acting as his burned out character, Sonny Crockett, had been affected by all of the experiences that had happened to him in S4 and the Burnett arc.  

[mjcmmv]

43 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

I hate to give my opinion of S5 (although I already did in this same thread, LOL) because it's the season I feel least familiar with.  For me, the stories just weren't as engrossing once the Burnett saga (which I felt was very strong) was over.  Also I hated Sonny's scruffy, longhaired look and frayed clothing style.  Hate to be so superficial, but the show was lacking some of the things that attracted me in the first place.  I was extremely disappointed and felt let down by Freefall.  Not the series finale I had hoped for.

However, since joining this forum, I've rewatched some (not all!) of S5 and have reconsidered my initial judgments, formed at the time the show was still in its original network run.  Now I can see the burnout and the feelings of futility that the squad felt as in one case after another, the bad guys won or at least didn't get what they deserved.  And some of the law enforcement community was in league with the crooks, or at least was trying to manipulate them to catch bigger fish without caring about the direct effects on the street.  Sonny's look that I hated was a reflection of his burned-out state.

While I can understand why some feel DJ had mentally checked out (and I was as frustrated as anyone when he didn't appear in an ep or had a very small role), I prefer to think he was acting as his burned out character, Sonny Crockett, had been affected by all of the experiences that had happened to him in S4 and the Burnett arc.  

You've summed it up perfectly! 

[Assasinge]

Fair enough, I can also agree with this mostly. While I'm currently in the process of rewatching IV and getting to V eventually, I already gave my thoughts on the Burnett Saga, uh somewhere in some thread I don't remember today but I really didn't like it. Whilst I found the concept of it cool, I didn't care for it. I wanted Miami Friggin Vice, not Dick Wolf presents late night soap opera of another episode of "Will Crockett regain himself as Crockett?" 2000 years later. It also didn't make sense to me the department would let him get back to work after having shot Rico in his Burnett state, it shouldn't matter whether he lost his memory or not, that is grossly unrealistic even by Vice's standards.

 

But putting that aside, I agree Freefall was pretty bleh. Another user I believe here stated that it should have been basically an homage to the series set in Miami and all the lights, music etc. but it wasn't for some strange reason and it felt pretty generic or ok to me. It didn't feel like a good proper season finale to me at all. But hey, at least NBC didn't mess it up like they did with Knight Rider's eh? Haha. Overall it just felt more and more "this is ok but not really Vice" to me at some point halfway through IV and getting to V. So, that's just me.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Assasinge

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Assasinge said:

Fair enough, I can also agree with this mostly. While I'm currently in the process of rewatching IV and getting to V eventually, I already gave my thoughts on the Burnett Saga, uh somewhere in some thread I don't remember today but I really didn't like it. Whilst I found the concept of it cool, I didn't care for it. I wanted Miami Friggin Vice, not Dick Wolf presents late night soap opera of another episode of "Will Crockett regain himself as Crockett?" 2000 years later. It also didn't make sense to me the department would let him get back to work after having shot Rico in his Burnett state, it shouldn't matter whether he lost his memory or not, that is grossly unrealistic even by Vice's standards.

 

 

I was just discussing this with a friend! How on earth would the department, or Castillo, for that matter, accept Crockett back to OCB after what he did? Makes no sense at all. Even if they exonerated him because of a head injury, how does that clear him or make him ready for duty? Head injuries can make you unstable for years!

As much as I love the Burnett Saga, Sonny coming back to the unit could have never happened in a real life scenario. As my friend and I concurred, it must have happened in an alternate universe!  

[Robbie C.]

Vice always had its credibility problems. Given Crockett's poor history of following procedure, looking after partners, and generally getting CIs killed or maimed he'd likely be off the force in any case. And what department is going to hire someone who posed as his own brother and likely broke at least a couple of laws in the process in addition to almost every element of the NYPD patrolman's guide? Tubbs would never have had a chance. It was broken from the git, but everyone seems fine with that... 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Robbie C.

[Assasinge]

Haha yeah that's true, I totally forgot that Tubbs faked his way into the department essentially. Yeah, well I know TV ain't real but come on!

 

4 minutes ago, mjcmmv said:

I was just discussing this with a friend! How on earth would the department, or Castillo, for that matter, accept Crockett back to OCB after what he did? Makes no sense at all. Even if they exonerated him because of a head injury, how does that clear him or make him ready for duty? Head injuries can make you unstable for years!

As much as I love the Burnett Saga, Sonny coming back to the unit could have never happened in a real life scenario. As my friend and I concurred, it must have happened in an alternate universe!  

No kidding man, that bothers me more than the Saga did honestly. If anything, they should have completely written that out or just end the show with Crockett leaving for good after what he did. I mean, that was just piss poor now.

[vicegirl85]

14 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

It also didn't make sense to me the department would let him get back to work after having shot Rico in his Burnett state, it shouldn't matter whether he lost his memory or not, that is grossly unrealistic even by Vice's standards.

Definitely agree with this statement!  They certainly didn't take the time to make a case for that decision.

[mjcmmv]

4 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

And what department is going to hire someone who posed as his own brother and likely broke at least a couple of laws in the process in addition to almost every element of the NYPD patrolman's guide? Tubbs would never have had a chance. It was broken from the git, but everyone seems fine with that... 

Good point!! 

[Assasinge]

Yeah definitely, I know the show clearly wasn't realistic as was any other tv show but even this, I have to draw the line here. Come on yo, writing Crockett pumping Tubbs full of lead for shock value was unbelievably cheap and harmed them in the long run. And don't forget when he gets arrested by Switke he punched him too. Seriously? Even by Crockett's own standards that was a real low. Horrible horrible writing.

[vicegirl85]

They certainly fell short of the potential that storyline could have had.

[Robbie C.]

2 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

Yeah definitely, I know the show clearly wasn't realistic as was any other tv show but even this, I have to draw the line here. Come on yo, writing Crockett pumping Tubbs full of lead for shock value was unbelievably cheap and harmed them in the long run. And don't forget when he gets arrested by Switke he punched him too. Seriously? Even by Crockett's own standards that was a real low. Horrible horrible writing.

I drew the line when he basically got Larry killed.

By the time they hit that arc they'd pinned themselves in a corner. Making it the Don Johnson show created huge problems, especially when he clearly started losing interest. Pitching it as a show focused on image and fashion guaranteed it would fade as soon as tastes changed. They constantly shortchanged the consistent characters in favor of this always-shifting idea of Crockett, who was someone you didn't want to partner with, date, or work with as a CI in any capacity. They shortchanged that character in so many ways it's ridiculous.

But Seasons 4 and 5 also saw Vice going into story areas TV just wasn't touching at the time. And they did it in a very unflinching way. It may seem standard fare now, but back then it certainly was not. Just like focusing on fashion, those kind of stores had great impact at the time.

[mjcmmv]

11 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

Yeah definitely, I know the show clearly wasn't realistic as was any other tv show but even this, I have to draw the line here. Come on yo, writing Crockett pumping Tubbs full of lead for shock value was unbelievably cheap and harmed them in the long run. And don't forget when he gets arrested by Switke he punched him too. Seriously? Even by Crockett's own standards that was a real low. Horrible horrible writing.

I hated what he did to Switeck! "Sorry, Stan." Ah, okay. That makes it alright, I guess...NOT. And to see Stan's hurt look as Sonny gets on the elevator and the door slowly closes. Man that was tough! 

Edited September 19, 2019 by mjcmmv

[vicegirl85]

2 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

But Seasons 4 and 5 also saw Vice going into story areas TV just wasn't touching at the time. And they did it in a very unflinching way. It may seem standard fare now, but back then it certainly was not. Just like focusing on fashion, those kind of stores had great impact at the time.

This is true.  Some of the storylines that people can't relate to today because they feel very standard or dated, were revolutionary at the time.

And as much as I liked the Crockett character, I agree it weakened the show to focus so much on him.  Other characters didn't get a chance to be fully rounded, and truthfully he didn't, either.

[Robbie C.]

6 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

This is true.  Some of the storylines that people can't relate to today because they feel very standard or dated, were revolutionary at the time.

And as much as I liked the Crockett character, I agree it weakened the show to focus so much on him.  Other characters didn't get a chance to be fully rounded, and truthfully he didn't, either.

They chose not to round him out for whatever reason. I like to think I've got a pretty good handle on the characters by now, and they left so much undone with Crockett it's nuts. And it wasn't just late in the series. I think the trend started as soon as they pushed Yerkovich aside.

[mjcmmv]

1 minute ago, Robbie C. said:

They chose not to round him out for whatever reason. I like to think I've got a pretty good handle on the characters by now, and they left so much undone with Crockett it's nuts. And it wasn't just late in the series. I think the trend started as soon as they pushed Yerkovich aside.

So true!

[vicegirl85]

Yes, they wanted to use him to tell some specific and different stories, and it didn't matter if they revealed more facets of his character, his past, his family, etc.  Truthfully there could have been any number of characters who filled the Crockett role in various episodes.  The only consistent thing was the inexorable march toward Crockett losing his true self in his cover, heralded from the second episode.

Not too untypical for the times, but disappointing, especially when looking back.

[mjcmmv]

2 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

Yes, they wanted to use him to tell some specific and different stories, and it didn't matter if they revealed more facets of his character, his past, his family, etc.  Truthfully there could have been any number of characters who filled the Crockett role in various episodes.  The only consistent thing was the inexorable march toward Crockett losing his true self in his cover, heralded from the second episode.

Not too untypical for the times, but disappointing, especially when looking back.

Every time I log onto this sight, I learn something. Good insight, vicegirl85!

[RedDragon86]

20 hours ago, mjcmmv said:

Yes and his hair was shorter in Season 1. It wasn't a good look with his hair in Season 5. 

 

Here are two good Season 3 looks, so I guess I should back down a little. LOL

 

That first jacket is so cool, I don't think he ever wore that in season 3. Maybe its his own.

[Assasinge]

16 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

They chose not to round him out for whatever reason. I like to think I've got a pretty good handle on the characters by now, and they left so much undone with Crockett it's nuts. And it wasn't just late in the series. I think the trend started as soon as they pushed Yerkovich aside.

Wasn't DJ kind of a prick or not giving much of a crap when he didn't have the spotlight in an episode anyway? I don't know if I read it here or somewhere else but for example Golden Triangle I think someone mentioned DJ didn't care for it cause he wasn't the star of it etc.

Well, then we got the DJ show. Lmao.

[Assasinge]

16 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

This is true.  Some of the storylines that people can't relate to today because they feel very standard or dated, were revolutionary at the time.

And as much as I liked the Crockett character, I agree it weakened the show to focus so much on him.  Other characters didn't get a chance to be fully rounded, and truthfully he didn't, either.

Interesting assessment. So I actually didn't think about this until you pointed out, I have to agree now that yeah, Crockett wasn't properly fleshed out like the other characters were, Tubbs and Castillo especially. Then I think they tried to with a bit of III and going forward IV and V but the Burnett arc really was not a good way to go with it. It showed insight in his undercover identity, not Crockett's and that really marred his character's foundational background for me. If we got more episodes similar to how they handled Castillo's background in the DEA and his relations with Yakuza and such that would have been great. Crockett served in Vietnam, yet we really only see one S3 episode relating to it and it wasn't all too much. I wish we knew more about Crockett's life before he ranked upto Vice and some more Vietnam era stuff would have been really great to see. 

 

Ah well, one can dream. There's always fanfiction isn't there? Haha.

[Robbie C.]

24 minutes ago, Assasinge said:

Interesting assessment. So I actually didn't think about this until you pointed out, I have to agree now that yeah, Crockett wasn't properly fleshed out like the other characters were, Tubbs and Castillo especially. Then I think they tried to with a bit of III and going forward IV and V but the Burnett arc really was not a good way to go with it. It showed insight in his undercover identity, not Crockett's and that really marred his character's foundational background for me. If we got more episodes similar to how they handled Castillo's background in the DEA and his relations with Yakuza and such that would have been great. Crockett served in Vietnam, yet we really only see one S3 episode relating to it and it wasn't all too much. I wish we knew more about Crockett's life before he ranked upto Vice and some more Vietnam era stuff would have been really great to see. 

 

Ah well, one can dream. There's always fanfiction isn't there? Haha.

Yes, there is. 

[ramboraph4life]

My first time watching the show after picking up the set for $25. Really enjoyed the first 2 seasons, I like season 3 and some of Season 4 (despite it having the worst episode to me aka the Alien one)...but this season? I just didn't care much for it and easily think it's the least successful/weakest season.

1. I miss the style/flash of the show. In my opinion, this season it just looked like a typical cop/action show and not Miami Vice.

2. The music is a big step down...sometimes the guitar stuff was nice but it got tiresome after a while. Jan Hammer was SORELY missed. Also, the dwindling budget for songs (aka not having many of the great/recognizable ones that helped make the show part of what Miami Vice...well Miami Vice) very much hurts it.

3. Big Lack of Don Johnson...most likely cause he was filming stuff like Dead Bang (which I highly enjoy). It's like Season 4 had 'too much' and this had 'not nearly enough'...first two seasons has the best balance of Crockett & Tubbs. He's in the very begging of 'Heart of Night' then is gone. He doesn't appear in Borrasca. Barely remember anything of him in stuff like Asian Cut (except finding the dead body at the beginning and helping save Trudy at the end), or Hard Knocks. Don't remember anything from him in The Cell Within...

4. Weak stories. Most of these stories I just didn't care about...I didn't care about stolen Paintings or Switek having a gambling problem or the one where it was just a back-door pilot for "wannabe 21 Jump Street' with the younger detectives or Crockett's con-artist cousin or the 'guy trying to be a super hero' and so forth. The 'white supremacist' plot-line was ironically (in my opinion) done much better in Don's movie Dead Bang that came out the same year. Perhaps the first few episodes, Line of Fire, and the series finale are the only ones I could say were 'solid to decent' episodes. Cell Within had a kinda interesting plot, just think it would've been stronger if it was Crockett trying to search for his partner.

5. The way I put it is this...they took a unique/exciting/fun show of Miami Vice and it just became a 'typical cop' show for Season 5. Nothing made it stand apart from any other show, at least not anymore. The only reason I kept watching was some bright spots between Don Johnson and PMT.

Edited November 10, 2019 by ramboraph4life
Mis-spelled some stuff.