Episode #8 "The Great McCarthy"

[ViceFanMan]

11 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

I don't think you can say with any degree of certainty what the writers had in mind unless you talk to one of them specifically. Just because something doesn't make it to the screen doesn't mean it wasn't done as part of the writing process. The original Star Trek writers' guidelines are out there somewhere (don't feel like hunting for the link right now, but I have posted it before), and they did give guidelines for both standing characters and how to develop extras. Just because a character only appeared in one episode doesn't mean some thought didn't go into a backstory (even if it's a brief one to help the writer frame the character's voice).

Hill Street Blues was an '80s show, but it backgrounded quite a few characters. So did Magnum PI. Simon and Simon did to some degree, and there were others. Not all '80s TV was like Knight Rider or CHiPs (and even then CHiPs did delve into backstories for some secondary characters from time to time). One-off characters like Callie are often memorable because the writer did take the time to work out some background and motivational stuff...even if it doesn't make the screen.

This is true...there were a few shows back then that had more character depth. For a crime/detective show Magnum is a very good example! Other drama shows like Dallas had elongated character arcs that lasted seasons or even throughout the series. I am not a ‘Trekie’, so I have no clue about that, lol...but for the most part I don’t take sci-fi too seriously. 

But, a lot of the shows back in the 80s were like CHiPs, A-Team, Knight Rider, etc... The majority of shows were not meant to be like shows today. In all honesty, even though it was considered a “darker” crime show at the time, MV was not as in-depth as say Magnum. It solely focused on visuals and the wild/exotic (for the time). Depth of character (other than what little we learned about the main stars along the way) was not what producers or writers had in mind.

There were some guest characters on MV that were more impactful and maybe had a little more backstory than others (Vanessa I don’t necessarily view as that...but Callie or Jackie from LMD are two in my opinion), but again...the depth or backstory was created solely for the episodes. They were meant to be seriously troubled & disturbed people, but (unless the episode plot called for it) what their childhood & pasts were, were not what we were to be focusing on.

In today’s TV viewing, pasts, backstories, character depth, character arcs that last more than 1 or 2 episodes, etc...are expected and usually enjoyed. But, for the most part, that’s not how crime/detective  shows were done back in the 80s.

Again, I love to psychoanalyze characters/episodes, too...but I have to remember if I’m watching an older show like MV, that’s viewing it with a modern or 2021 mindset. I can only go so far...and then it may end up being like trying to high-dive into a 2 foot pool.  

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, Christine said:

We just landed in the completely wrong episode, but I have to disagree with you, ViceFanMan. I'm not sure if Callie was really the driving force and Charlie was just the executive. I think they were a very good fit because they were both sociopathically inclined and their method had probably made them a lot of money so far.
Maybe Callie experienced a lot of violence in her childhood, but I always find it difficult when everything that goes wrong in a person's life is always blamed on just a bad childhood.
Of course, it happens often enough and is terrible, but I know people who had to endure bad things in their childhood without becoming criminals. It's the same with people who get behind the wheel drunk, run over someone else and are given mitigating circumstances in court because they were drunk. That's exactly why I would punish them twice, because nobody accidentally drinks too much and if they misjudged, they shouldn't get behind the wheel.
Callie and Charlie were a well-oiled team, and for the money they ended up with, Callie was willing to put up with a slap or two to look believable.

I know...we’ve gotten off topic with Callie, but I too know & work with people who’ve experienced bad things, but didn’t become criminals or sociopaths...sadly others have.

It still comes down to choices, but tragedy and/or abuse can affect people differently. As for Callie & Charlie, they were a team...but I still get the impression Callie is in charge & manipulates Charlie into doing what she wants/plans...even if she does it in a way that makes Charlie think he’s the one calling the shots.  

Returning to the episode/topic...Vanessa manipulated men as well, but not for death. She just wanted money & high social status. I think she truly was attracted to Tubbs, but she made a bad choice that ultimately prevented their relationship from continuing. 

[Christine]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb ViceFanMan:

 I think she truly was attracted to Tubbs, but she made a bad choice that ultimately prevented their relationship from continuing. 

Maybe she was attracted by Tubbs, but we shouldn´t forget that Tubbs met her first in her boutique where clothes probably were very expensive. Her first question was whether he needed some jackets for the back row in his walk-in closet, which is the size of her store. With this question she thought to find out that he was a wealthy man.
We´ll never know if she would have been still attracted to Tubbs if he had confessed that he was only a policeman.

On the other hand no one had a well working releationship. Actually it all worked only for one or two episodes before the women died or the couples separated.

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

Maybe she was attracted by Tubbs, but we shouldn´t forget that Tubbs met her first in her boutique where clothes probably were very expensive. Her first question was whether he needed some jackets for the back row in his walk-in closet, which is the size of her store. With this question she thought to find out that he was a wealthy man.
We´ll never know if she would have been still attracted to Tubbs if he had confessed that he was only a policeman.

On the other hand no one had a well working releationship. Actually it all worked only for one or two episodes before the women died or the couples separated.

True...and that’s been my own psychoanalysis of Vanessa, that she liked the rich/wealthy world and that’s who she went for...to “reel” in for McCarthy, as well as for herself. However, she seemed genuinely attracted to Tubbs, as she was still wanting to be with him after McCarthy was arrested & taken down...which meant (at least long term) her cushy little rich world was over too.

But, there is the question of whether she would still want to be with Tubbs after she knew he was a cop? Maybe not? But, maybe she already knew once McCarthy was taken in...but didn’t count on Tubbs or any of the cops discovering she had killed Gifford? We’ll never know!   

[RedDragon86]

Watching Cocaine Cowboys: The Kings of Miami about Willy' Falcon and Salvador 'Sal' Magluta pn Netflix, who were massive cocaine smugglers and world champion boat racers would sometimes use their high speed power boat races as part of the drug smuggling, like in this episode.

Edited August 12, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Jack Gretsky]

On 8/30/2020 at 12:25 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

This is an easy episode to underrate because it's so breezy and doesn't have a classic "oh crap" twist ending.  But it's a lot of fun and highlights the "high life" (no pun intended) of Miami dolce vita - house parties, boat racing, glamour (speaking of which, Maria McDonald is quite possibly the beautiful woman to ever appear in MV).  Belated thanks to Stinger390X's above informative boat insider talk. 

The above is my quick review from a year ago.  This is indeed an enjoyably "sunny" episode with plenty to soothe one's eyes - specifically the marina/water/racing scenes and the presence of the stunning Maria McDonald as Vanessa.  In addition, we get the first appearance of Izzy who will return to later episodes with his "mang"led syntax.

It looks like some people here were not impressed with the title bad guy.  I liked his calm Ivy League exterior though; I suppose he's the "great" McCarthy because he's meant to evoke the Great Gatsby. 

"Rico's Blues" is an excellent Hammer composition.  As far as the songs go, I always find the party band smiling through their performances of gems like Self Control and Some Guys Have All the Luck to be amusing.  "Born to Be Wild is an overused track in movies and TV shows, but this is one of its better uses - at least it's not the hackneyed use of being the backdrop to nerdy guys riding motorcycles for the first time!

[Adrian321]

A fine episode. I actually rewatched it last night after finnishing some work. 8/10 for sure

Not up there with the best, and not even a 9/10 because it just didn't have that kick in it, and was pretty tame for the most part, besides that murder. The ending is also boring and too "cut" and out of the blue, but I guess they did not have a better way to end this.

But, the music was great; the boat race was phenomenal, and just felt like MV.... the light, exotic one.... A good episode by Season 1 standards. Pretty avearge.

One other thing I like is that we are introduced to Izzy, and the intro is engaging; unlike other Season 1 episodes.

When I think about it, a 8.5/10 rating would fit this more, almost close to a 9/10.

[Viceguy]

This is definitely the episode I would show someone to get them hooked on Miami Vice. It has plenty of everything the show is known for. The boat race is one of my favorites in the entire show. This is my go-to episode when I simply want to relax.

11/10

[Adrian321]

8 minutes ago, Viceguy said:

This is definitely the episode I would show someone to get them hooked on Miami Vice. It has plenty of everything the show is known for. The boat race is one of my favorites in the entire show. This is my go-to episode when I simply want to relax.

11/10

I dissagree. Actually, the best episode to show someone to get hooked to MV would be the pilot itself. Smuggler's blues, Definitely Miami and Payback would also make good candidates; because they, unlike this episode in particular have a "bang", and are more engaging, and just as exotic as the "Great McCarthy", and if the viewer is like me, he'd choose these ones, if we speak about "getting hooked up", because there are other awsome episodes later like "Child's play" or "Forgive us our debts+Deliver us from evil" and even the finale itself (if you enjoy it); but these ones are for the already hooked fans, and would be pretty bad at doing this.

I agree this episode is nice, and pretty good, and enjoyable, but there are some even better. We can have our own likes and dislikes though and opinions.

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Adrian321 said:

A fine episode. I actually rewatched it last night after finnishing some work. 8/10 for sure

Not up there with the best, and not even a 9/10 because it just didn't have that kick in it, and was pretty tame for the most part, besides that murder. The ending is also boring and too "cut" and out of the blue, but I guess they did not have a better way to end this.

But, the music was great; the boat race was phenomenal, and just felt like MV.... the light, exotic one.... A good episode by Season 1 standards. Pretty avearge.

One other thing I like is that we are introduced to Izzy, and the intro is engaging; unlike other Season 1 episodes.

When I think about it, a 8.5/10 rating would fit this more, almost close to a 9/10.

 

3 hours ago, Viceguy said:

This is definitely the episode I would show someone to get them hooked on Miami Vice. It has plenty of everything the show is known for. The boat race is one of my favorites in the entire show. This is my go-to episode when I simply want to relax.

11/10

This is a quintessential MV episode, as it focuses primarily on style (fashion, colors, lighting, locations) & music...while the plot is sort of “2nd” to everything else, but still fun & entertaining to watch! Awesome episode!! 

[Robbie C.]

The defining Vice episode for someone who hasn't seen the series is without question Definitely Miami (in part because the cast and feel is well-established by this point...the pilot is good, but the feel is different and you don't have Castillo). If the Great McCarthy had been the first episode I'd seen, I doubt I would have seen a second episode.

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

The defining Vice episode for someone who hasn't seen the series is without question Definitely Miami (in part because the cast and feel is well-established by this point...the pilot is good, but the feel is different and you don't have Castillo). If the Great McCarthy had been the first episode I'd seen, I doubt I would have seen a second episode.

Totally agree that one episode to “start” with or on, would definitely be “Definitely Miami”! But, “Great McCarthy” definitely had the MV characteristics & aspects as well—from the colors & lighting, the fashion & music, to the action & the famous ‘abrupt’ Michael Mann ending. The cast/characters also seemed to “mesh” or gel very well with each other by the time “McCarthy” aired, too.

”Definitely Miami” is a much more famous & quintessential episode for sure...but for a first season episode “McCarthy” is a fun & entertaining one! 

[ViceFanMan]

Saw this photo and caption earlier, of Louis McCarthy’s mansion, on a MV Facebook page...couldn’t agree more (I’m adding along with the Pink House)! 

“One of the greatest houses of all the episodes!”

Edited June 7, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[johnnyfarragut]

Screenplay.

Izzy Moreno: 'Havana's answer to Woody Allen' 

miami vice-great mccarthy,the.pdf

 

[Matt5]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:03 PM, johnnyfarragut said:

Screenplay.

Izzy Moreno: 'Havana's answer to Woody Allen' 

miami vice-great mccarthy,the.pdf 2.51 MB · 1 download

 

Thank you for posting.

This episode is 10 / 10 for me.

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Matt5 said:

Thank you for posting.

This episode is 10 / 10 for me.

Me too...it’s a fun & entertaining one to watch, where there’s no personal drama going on, or something depressing...it’s strictly all about the case.  Then, add in all the superb fashion, music, colors, action, etc...a showcase for MV essentials!   

[Dadrian]

Wasn’t gonna say again that I enjoy everything but the last 10 seconds of the episode, but…”I’ve got to”. 

[Robbie C.]

Nope. Still one of my least-favorite episodes.

[pahonu]

I’m always sad when I watch this now, knowing that the historic home on Star Island by renowned architect Walter DeGarmo was demolished to build a monstrous new home.

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Wasn’t gonna say again that I enjoy everything but the last 10 seconds of the episode, but…”I’ve got to”. 

 

21 minutes ago, pahonu said:

I’m always sad when I watch this now, knowing that the historic home on Star Island by renowned architect Walter DeGarmo was demolished to build a monstrous new home.

Lol!   I don't "mind" the last 10 seconds...but, they maybe could have been a little more impactful or "dramatic".  And yeah, it's always sad when historic or known locations are destroyed for modern garbage...or another parking lot!  

But, overall I always enjoy the episode, and it's one I look forward to viewing every time I go though the show! 

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, ViceFanMan said:

I don't "mind" the last 10 seconds...but, they maybe could have been a little more impactful or "dramatic". 

And even worse is Jan Hammer’s little “bling” sound after PMT says the line. Idk if Jan was seriously going along with it, or was almost joking.  

[ViceFanMan]

4 hours ago, Dadrian said:

And even worse is Jan Hammer’s little “bling” sound after PMT says the line. Idk if Jan was seriously going along with it, or was almost joking.  

Actually, that “bling” sound I think is somewhat prevalent, or variations of it are used somewhat in different episodes at the beginning of the show. I think Hammer realized how “blunt” and/or “quick” the ending was, and was trying to make it as dramatic as possible. However, it still wasn’t quite enough.  But, I can handle it, as the rest of the episode was awesome! 

Edited August 27, 2023 by ViceFanMan

[Robbie C.]

I skip it most times, honestly. Just boring as hell unless you're into flat bad guys and boat races.

[Mr. Vigilante]

For this reason here, I'll always love this episode!

[Dadrian]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Vigilante said:

For this reason here, I'll always love this episode!

Yes! The dancers are literally GIFs on my camera roll!