15 Smuggler's Blues

[king77]

Just my 2 cents.

In the episode the unique block is at least 4 courses high, the building above, only 3 courses high. Plus in the photo above noted as Veranda C&T&Tucker, there is only block on one side, in the episode it’s on 2.

The Veranda is not part of the balcony and the balcony appears to be poured in place concrete, the pattern doesn’t match. Plus a door to the noted condo is in the Veranda, and that would probably make that the room behind the slider to the balcony an entry to a living room. And there is a small threshold 3-4 inches high to keep the rain out, in the episode it appears not to have a raised threshold.

The kitchen’s in these condos are real small and only a single door, no sliders so no way C&T&Tucker could fit thru it.

This unit appears to be the mirror image of the unit noted above.

 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/260-Ocean-Dr-Apt-1_Miami-Beach_FL_33139_M69487-61572#photo5

 

 

[Tom]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb king77:

Just my 2 cents.

In the episode the unique block is at least 4 courses high, the building above, only 3 courses high. Plus in the photo above noted as Veranda C&T&Tucker, there is only block on one side, in the episode it’s on 2.

The Veranda is not part of the balcony and the balcony appears to be poured in place concrete, the pattern doesn’t match. Plus a door to the noted condo is in the Veranda, and that would probably make that the room behind the slider to the balcony an entry to a living room. And there is a small threshold 3-4 inches high to keep the rain out, in the episode it appears not to have a raised threshold.

The kitchen’s in these condos are real small and only a single door, no sliders so no way C&T&Tucker could fit thru it.

This unit appears to be the mirror image of the unit noted above.

 https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/260-Ocean-Dr-Apt-1_Miami-Beach_FL_33139_M69487-61572#photo5

 

 

We all are aware of differences in numbers of blocks and especially with the room layout and where the interiors were filmed. There are lots of unsolved questions. I am also surprised how fancy that apartment was in late 1984, but the episode showed a real apartment (kitchen), not just a studio set. But the railing pattern itself matches and, as a matter of fact, we have never seen any pattern used twice in two different buildings, they are unique like a fingerprint. Whatever was remodelled there since 1984, that railing pattern is clear proof that some part of this building was used for filming, at least for the exterior filming.  

[king77]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

We all are aware of differences in numbers of blocks and especially with the room layout and where the interiors were filmed. There are lots of unsolved questions. I am also surprised how fancy that apartment was in late 1984, but the episode showed a real apartment (kitchen), not just a studio set. But the railing pattern itself matches and, as a matter of fact, we have never seen any pattern used twice in two different buildings, they are unique like a fingerprint. Whatever was remodelled there since 1984, that railing pattern is clear proof that some part of this building was used for filming, at least for the exterior filming.  

10-4

Just to play Devil’s Advocate.

The unique railings are rectangle in rectangle breeze blocks, very popular in places like Miami. Some privacy while letting the breeze thru while providing support/security.

The “Left Cage” doesn’t work as the stairway is there. The direction C&T pull Tucker out of the kitchen, would mean they pulled him from the stairway to the breeze blocks. Blocks at Tuckers back and right side.

The other side doesn’t work as it’s a doorway to the unit.

The balcony is on the apt is not wide enough based on the picture above of Tucker against the breeze blocks.

The doors out of the kitchens, units with doors exiting the kitchen of the units at 260 Ocean Drive that have them are too small vs what is shown on the episode, 2’6” vs 3’ door  and exit to a balcony, not the caged area.

I also don’t see any with what appear to be stoves/ranges right next to the door.

The exit doors on every unit I looked have thresholds, the photo above where C&T drag tucker outside, does not.

Plus it appears every unit’s front/entrance door opens to the outside, no hallways as shown in the episode.

 

My thoughts.

The unit in the episode has a pay phone inside and the girl by the door is fiddling with a switch that has a steel cover, very odd for a home.

When Switek and Zito rush in, we see the entrance door to the unit, again no threshold, unusual for an apt/home. There appears to be an interior latch for a deadbolt or other security device. The door edge itself does not have a hole for the bolt or if it is a bolt,barrel type, there is nothing on the door jamb to catch and secure the bolt.

When they bust in the door doesn’t fully open as it appears to stick on the floor/carpet and Zito bumps it to get it to open more.

Almost all the interior walls are black and the ceiling in the back portion is at a different level than the entrance area, again something I don’t see at 260 ocean.

The construction looks cheap, the door hardware and knocker appear to be brand new and the windows look back lit from above and the lower white ceiling appears to have a slight sag in it.

When C&T pull Tucker outside, we clearly see grey plain unpainted concrete block behind them on both sides of the opening/doorway. No grey unpainted plain concrete block is exposed at 260 Ocean. Nor would you expect at an apartment/condo building.

We also see some very basic black/purple cabinetry as they drag Tucker thru the door. We also see the stove and microwave next the door/opening.

When Crockett gets up, what we see in the background thru the rectangle and rectangle block is that it does not match as we would expect to see the same color wall/block and pattern across the stair. We see some yellow, not pastel color.

 

My WAG is it is a set possibly built off the kitchenette/breakroom at the studio.

I plan to rewatch another 20 times tonight to see what else jumps out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb king77:

10-4

Just to play Devil’s Advocate.

The unique railings are rectangle in rectangle breeze blocks, very popular in places like Miami. Some privacy while letting the breeze thru while providing support/security.

The “Left Cage” doesn’t work as the stairway is there. The direction C&T pull Tucker out of the kitchen, would mean they pulled him from the stairway to the breeze blocks. Blocks at Tuckers back and right side.

The other side doesn’t work as it’s a doorway to the unit.

The balcony is on the apt is not wide enough based on the picture above of Tucker against the breeze blocks.

The doors out of the kitchens, units with doors exiting the kitchen of the units at 260 Ocean Drive that have them are too small vs what is shown on the episode, 2’6” vs 3’ door  and exit to a balcony, not the caged area.

I also don’t see any with what appear to be stoves/ranges right next to the door.

The exit doors on every unit I looked have thresholds, the photo above where C&T drag tucker outside, does not.

Plus it appears every unit’s front/entrance door opens to the outside, no hallways as shown in the episode.

 

My thoughts.

The unit in the episode has a pay phone inside and the girl by the door is fiddling with a switch that has a steel cover, very odd for a home.

When Switek and Zito rush in, we see the entrance door to the unit, again no threshold, unusual for an apt/home. There appears to be an interior latch for a deadbolt or other security device. The door edge itself does not have a hole for the bolt or if it is a bolt,barrel type, there is nothing on the door jamb to catch and secure the bolt.

When they bust in the door doesn’t fully open as it appears to stick on the floor/carpet and Zito bumps it to get it to open more.

Almost all the interior walls are black and the ceiling in the back portion is at a different level than the entrance area, again something I don’t see at 260 ocean.

The construction looks cheap, the door hardware and knocker appear to be brand new and the windows look back lit from above and the lower white ceiling appears to have a slight sag in it.

When C&T pull Tucker outside, we clearly see grey plain unpainted concrete block behind them on both sides of the opening/doorway. No grey unpainted plain concrete block is exposed at 260 Ocean. Nor would you expect at an apartment/condo building.

We also see some very basic black/purple cabinetry as they drag Tucker thru the door. We also see the stove and microwave next the door/opening.

When Crockett gets up, what we see in the background thru the rectangle and rectangle block is that it does not match as we would expect to see the same color wall/block and pattern across the stair. We see some yellow, not pastel color.

 

My WAG is it is a set possibly built off the kitchenette/breakroom at the studio.

I plan to rewatch another 20 times tonight to see what else jumps out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of arguments for a set and sure a lot does not fit. Maybe you can crack the case.

But the railing blocks still stand as a match irrespective of the number used. This ain’t a garden variety block seen on every corner as we have searched for it a long time. As long as no one can show me a second one, exactly looking, on a different building, I will deem this as any other unique Art Deco ornamental element. In 30 years I have never seen the same Art Deco element used on two different buildings.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Tom wrote, "But it would be interesting to get to "arbitration court" with this matter i.e. what do MDPL buffs&long term tour guides say? Have they ever seen the exact pattern twice? Ask them, would be interesting.... "  The designers back in the 30s, 40s tried to make their buildings unique but you do see some repetition.

I'll ask the lady at MDPL to check with the tour guides and let you know when I get an answer.

Edited August 6, 2020 by miamijimf

[C Glide]

 There is too much that does not match for me and my opinion is not a match so I don't close the book and add it to my site until I am. In the past I have thought that I found locations for sure based on items like this and wanted to call it but waited, investigated and was later glad I had not because I would have been in error and never realized it. I have no bias in judging it I am just not convinced. It maybe right but not convinced yet so I want more study before I call it. From my cursory exam the layout is not right and I don't see any logic in the building changes that would have had to have occurred. Where's the kitchen attached to the porch where there is now not even an interior? Where is the sliding glass door? Why is access to apartments from the outdoor courtyard now when it was an interior hallway in Vice? Why did they take a decorative concrete block wall down from  what was likely 8 (def at least 5)blocks tall down to 3 and add ugly rails?  Just need more for me before I move on because I want to be sure.

[C Glide]

Sent out a message to people who worked on this episode to see if anyone remembers the location(s).

 

[Tom]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

The designers back in the 30s, 40s tried to make their buildings unique but you do see some repetition.

I‘ve never seen any (exact) repetition in Art Deco railings patterns. Never. And I am still waiting for anyone who can show me one.

I am open to any discussion but currently we are discussing assumptions like fingerprints exist twice without any empiric evidence. And everyone who has his doubts is cordially invited to do research on his own and present here. I did lots of research recently and there is not more than the Google Maps visual available from hat house to go with. Historic aerial is inconclusive from above.

If we would find an old picture of the 260 Ocean Drive house, that would help. I suspect that this railing was used much more often throughout the complex and has been reduced considerably since then. Reason why I say that is because I found that Art Deco ornamentals have traditionally  been used as repetitive element throughout different parts of buildings and were usually not just confined to a fraction of a few square feet within a bigger complex.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Tom, the MDPL lady replied to my inquiry about the Art Deco railings: "A tour guide said they are not unique."  I have never seen two alike either but that was what the tour guide said.

[Tom]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

Tom, the MDPL lady replied to my inquiry about the Art Deco railings: "A tour guide said they are not unique."  I have never seen two alike either but that was what the tour guide said.

I have also heard about pink cangaroos but never seen one 

as long as she cannot name one example of that it is just an unfounded statement 

 

[C Glide]

The interior was filmed at Greenwich Studios. Confirmed by people who filmed the scene. Memory of the porch was fuzzy so they promised to watch the episode soon and see if it brought any clarity to their memories. Cheers.

[Tom]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb C Glide:

The interior was filmed at Greenwich Studios. Confirmed by people who filmed the scene. Memory of the porch was fuzzy so they promised to watch the episode soon and see if it brought any clarity to their memories. Cheers.

Most logical explanation given the Lay-out issues and some other clues. I am pretty sure that they did not replicate or rebuild the Art Deco railing in the studio just for this 15 Second porch scene. And I am still waiting for any evidence that this railing was used on other buildings too.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

Well the joy of location hunting is the difficulty. Fun to find an easy one but even more rewarding to nail down a hard one. One way or the other I am convinced we will get to the bottom of this and any case we work on. Be it the location you found or another the journey is the reward.

[Tom]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb C Glide:

Well the joy of location hunting is the difficulty. Fun to find an easy one but even more rewarding to nail down a hard one. One way or the other I am convinced we will get to the bottom of this and any case we work on. Be it the location you found or another the journey is the reward.

Agree. Unfortunately it seems I am the only one left to active hunting now (and even the ton of new locations found since April have not been even published). I remember the times when he had this active group effort with around 10 people regularly contributing and found the Ramrod, the Milk run drug lab and other tough nuts. That was fun and very rewarding also in terms of skills and „four eyes see more than two“...

[Dadrian]

@Tom I’m actively following along  

(and really enjoying it)

“You have people who care about you Tom. People like me. Keep on going.” 

[Tom]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Dadrian:

@Tom I’m actively following along  

(and really enjoying it)

“You have people who care about you Tom. People like me. Keep on going.” 

Thanks! Exceptions confirm the rule!

Thx also for the child‘s play quote. At least you did not send me to see Sgt. Dilello from psychological services 

[miamijimf]

Ya Tom Miami locations are hardly the most popular topic on this site.  I was disappointed when I came to this realization a few years ago.  I really enjoyed location trivia and posted a lot and tried to answer many cases but after a while there was little participation so I quit.  But I've learned to accept it and live with it.  Interest in locations runs in cycles also, sometimes interest picks up.  But you are among a small group of members who are always enthusiastic and talented in location finding.  We all want you to keep going and are your friends,  How many friends do you need anyway?

[Tom]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

Ya Tom Miami locations are hardly the most popular topic on this site.  I was disappointed when I came to this realization a few years ago.  I really enjoyed location trivia and posted a lot and tried to answer many cases but after a while there was little participation so I quit.  But I've learned to accept it and live with it.  Interest in locations runs in cycles also, sometimes interest picks up.  But you are among a small group of members who are always enthusiastic and talented in location finding.  We all want you to keep going and are your friends,  How many friends do you need anyway?

Thanks. For me it’s important to keep my (and anybody else’s) interest in MV up by finding out something new or getting a new angle to it and locations are great for that. Just passive consumption like rewatching episodes and answering the same trivia questions all over again is too boring after 30 years for me.
 

But it’s the same in reality life-most people are passive consumers only and very few „create“ something on their own or contribute something new to the community. 
 

But even the hardcore group of location interested members here has dropped over the last few years from around 10 to 2-3 going by the reactions.

 

[TylerDurden389]

I plan on taking some pics of a bunch of shooting locations in a few months when the weather cools down and I move closer to work (waiting for hurricane season to pass first). Maybe that'll help spark some interest 'round here.

[Tom]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb TylerDurden389:

I plan on taking some pics of a bunch of shooting locations in a few months when the weather cools down and I move closer to work (waiting for hurricane season to pass first). Maybe that'll help spark some interest 'round here.

Thanks we can use it!

since April we have found 30 new locations, a lot of very interesting ones that are also accessible. Plenty of material for you! 
a current list of what we found recently is in the Group effort Thread here in the location section.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

THE DEA MEET: BISCAYA HOTEL (former Floridian) at 540 WEST AVE, MIAMI BEACH

Here is a nice picture of the Biscaya in 1981 The hotel was long closed and deteriorated before it was destroyed on 15 March 1987. Also used in Trust fund pirates in March 1986 as the drug den.

Link of the destruction: 

Link of the MDPL for the Biscaya when they tried to save it: https://mdpl.org/2020/05/07/the-biscaya-hotel/. Some nice photos included.

 

 

[TylerDurden389]

Went to the beach a few days ago and snapped a couple of pics from one of the few shooting locations in my area. I need a selfie stick so I can get more of what's behind me lol.

[Tom]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb TylerDurden389:

Went to the beach a few days ago and snapped a couple of pics from one of the few shooting locations in my area. I need a selfie stick so I can get more of what's behind me lol.

Cool location but Sarahs apartment was not in Smugglers Blues 

[Matt5]

Here are some of the Smugglers Blues|260 Ocean Drive apartment from January this year.

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Matt5:

Here are some of the Smugglers Blues|260 Ocean Drive apartment from January this year.

Thanks especially for the last close up recreation pic from the inside of the fence. Here is the large episode still to compare.

My take-away is the left side of episode still is completely matching with your onsite picture, but there are some deviations (not in pattern, but how the material surface is mastered and the thickness of the elements) on the other side of the fence (what we see on the right side of C&T&Tucker).

The former speaks for itself, the latter is explainable if the fence has been fixed or renovated since then and what we see on the right side in the episode pic is not the different "inside" of the fence but the same look as on the left (I think there was no difference between the "inside" and "outside" of the fence when this was filmed). Anyway, the building has not such a high "cage" of this specific fence anymore, thus there must have been some renovation or removal. 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Tom