Season 4 minus 4

[Guest myonlyvice]

Perhaps there are some who have come to view me as an apologist for Season 4, and I can't deny that I love it probably more than most. However, you may find it surprising that I generally find fault with the same episodes that everyone else does and it even tends to be the same faults within those specific episodes. So, I have a proposition for everybody: Consider Season 4 as if it were only 18 episodes long instead of 22. I think >90% of us agree that "Big Thaw", "Missing Hours", and "Cows of October" are not good episodes. As for identifying a fourth episode that is clearly out of favor with fans, opinion starts to scatter a bit though there are still trends. I see this as evidence that the remaining episodes are not fundamentally terrible, at least like the three I identified. But go ahead and pick a fourth one anyway, one that really sucks in your opinion. For me it's "Hell Hath no Fury". (The extent to which one may find positive things here or there in these episodes is beside the point.) After identifying your four discards consider Season 4 as a whole. Doesn't the air feel so much cleaner and fresher now? I know this process really isn't fair because they all count, but it sure does make Season 4 feel better. After doing this, I would go so far as to say that Season 4 is surpassed only marginally by Seasons 1 and 2 as the best one, and I'm not joking either. There may be someone who will still be unable to say much positive about Season 4 even after picking four to discard, an extreme hater. They will insist on discarding a dozen before saying anything nice. I feel sorry for that individual. Season 4 has a great vibe, a very unique vibe that is nonetheless quintessential Vice, and they just don't get it. So here's to Season 4 minus 4. Can I get an Amen, brothers and sisters?

[Spyder]

Perhaps there are some who have come to view me as an apologist for Season 4' date=' and I can't deny that I love it probably more than most. However, you may find it surprising that I generally find fault with the same episodes that everyone else does and it even tends to be the same faults within those specific episodes. So, I have a proposition for everybody: Consider Season 4 as if it were only 18 episodes long instead of 22. I think >90% of us agree that "Big Thaw", "Missing Hours", and "Cows of October" are not good episodes. As for identifying a fourth episode that is clearly out of favor with fans, opinion starts to scatter a bit though there are still trends. I see this as evidence that the remaining episodes are not fundamentally terrible, at least like the three I identified. But go ahead and pick a fourth one anyway, one that really sucks in your opinion. For me it's "Hell Hath no Fury". (The extent to which one may find positive things here or there in these episodes is beside the point.) After identifying your four discards consider Season 4 as a whole. Doesn't the air feel so much cleaner and fresher now? I know this process really isn't fair because they all count, but it sure does make Season 4 feel better. After doing this, I would go so far as to say that Season 4 is surpassed only marginally by Seasons 1 and 2 as the best one, and I'm not joking either. There may be someone who will still be unable to say much positive about Season 4 even after picking four to discard, an extreme hater. They will insist on discarding a dozen before saying anything nice. I feel sorry for that individual. Season 4 has a great vibe, a very unique vibe that is nonetheless quintessential Vice, and they just don't get it. So here's to Season 4 minus 4. Can I get an Amen, brothers and sisters?[/quote'] Amen ... Send Money. Brian Dennehy and James Tolkan can play sinister and nasty when given good material (especially in the 80s), but here, the entire episode just feels all tongue-in-cheek.Done properly, an episode about Tubbs being falsely accused of raping a young church parishioner, risking getting his cover blown with the church pastor, who's really a drug runner, would have been a phenomenal episode, instead of what we got. Take this episode out of the mix, along with the other stinkers, and Season 4 is pretty solid.

[Guest neworder]

You have a fair point, if S4 lost 4 episodes it would overall be quite strong. I handed 2 10/10's for the season in DVD reviews compared to 0 for season 3 and 1 for Season 2. So it obviously does some things right. My 4 would be: Missing Hours, Cows, Hell Hath and Like a Hurricane, closely followed by Rock and a Hard Place being discarded. For me the marriage angle is pretty appalling and only works out until she finally get's shot, that said Love at First Sight is fairly decent. But yes apart from 3 awful episodes and the marriage story, I do quite like Season 4. I enjoy the Big Thaw (If in the right mood) and I also think Amen Send Money is quite strong. Season 4 also boasts the best Season finale of the series. In addition, I own and listen to more artists music from Season 4 than any other season. The Payola$ Eyes of a Strange from Badge of Dishonor is my fave all time Vice song. Season 4 could've done with better instrumentals but John Peterson sometimes hit the cord perfectly but more often than not failed. The only thing I can always fully conclude in terms of my favourite Vice seasons is that Season 2 is my fave, followed by 1, then 5. Seasons 3 & 4 always fight each other in my mind, and it's a hard decision to make for me. I love Season 4 at times, but it's also unforgivable at others. So I understand where your coming from and it would be better if it lost 4 episodes.

[Guest myonlyvice]

Amen ... Send Money. Brian Dennehy and James Tolkan can play sinister and nasty when given good material (especially in the 80s)' date=' but here, the entire episode just feels all tongue-in-cheek.Done properly, an episode about Tubbs being falsely accused of raping a young church parishioner, risking getting his cover blown with the church pastor, who's really a drug runner, would have been a phenomenal episode, instead of what we got. Take this episode out of the mix, along with the other stinkers, and Season 4 is pretty solid.[/quote']Hilarious and very well said, Spyder.

[Guest myonlyvice]

You have a fair point' date=' if S4 lost 4 episodes it would overall be quite strong. I handed 2 10/10's for the season in DVD reviews compared to 0 for season 3 and 1 for Season 2. So it obviously does some things right. My 4 would be: Missing Hours, Cows, Hell Hath and Like a Hurricane, closely followed by Rock and a Hard Place being discarded. For me the marriage angle is pretty appalling and only works out until she finally get's shot, that said Love at First Sight is fairly decent. But yes apart from 3 awful episodes and the marriage story, I do quite like Season 4. I enjoy the Big Thaw (If in the right mood) and I also think Amen Send Money is quite strong. Season 4 also boasts the best Season finale of the series. In addition, I own and listen to more artists music from Season 4 than any other season. The Payola$ Eyes of a Strange from Badge of Dishonor is my fave all time Vice song. Season 4 could've done with better instrumentals but John Peterson sometimes hit the cord perfectly but more often than not failed. The only thing I can always fully conclude in terms of my favourite Vice seasons is that Season 2 is my fave, followed by 1, then 5. Seasons 3 & 4 always fight each other in my mind, and it's a hard decision to make for me. I love Season 4 at times, but it's also unforgivable at others. So I understand where your coming from and it would be better if it lost 4 episodes.[/quote'] I agree, neworder. The marriage and the Kaitlin story-arc in general were poorly conceived. There's some fantastic cinematography however in "Hurricane".

[Spyder]

I agree' date=' neworder. The marriage and the Kaitlin story-arc in general were poorly conceived. There's some fantastic cinematography however in "Hurricane".[/quote'] How could it have been done better, in your opinion, MOV? For me, I can't get past how much better the arc would have been if Caitlin was played by one of the original choices: Carly Simon, Lorraine Bracco, etc. At least with Simon, she's closer in age to DJ, and they could have still gone the "fictional rock star" route while using Simon's own songs, like they did with Easton.The other thing should have been to extend Like a Hurricane over two episodes or so. Sonny got married too impulsively!

[Guest myonlyvice]

How could it have been done better' date=' in your opinion, MOV? For me, I can't get past how much better the arc would have been if Caitlin was played by one of the original choices: Carly Simon, Lorraine Bracco, etc. At least with Simon, she's closer in age to DJ, and they could have still gone the "fictional rock star" route while using Simon's own songs, like they did with Easton.The other thing should have been to extend Like a Hurricane over two episodes or so. Sonny got married too impulsively![/quote'] Basically, I feel it was at times too rushed, as in "Hurricane" or, on the other hand, that it was ignored so much as to make it seem unbelievable. I didn't like how after Caitlin was finally introduced there were large, multi-episode gaps without her. I know she's a traveling rock star but it made her presence feel that much more unnecessary. Ideally, she should have been present in the season premiere and in every subsequent episode up to her death. I mean she's his wife for crying out loud. I also don't really like Easton in front of the camera. She's not terrible but she grates on me some. But all this in the bigger picture is a very minor flaw as far as I'm concerned. I truly love "Like a Hurricane" and it has a great title to boot. On a scale of 1-5 stars I would give it 4.

[cheetah]

Perhaps there are some who have come to view me as an apologist for Season 4' date=' and I can't deny that I love it probably more than most. However, you may find it surprising that I generally find fault with the same episodes that everyone else does and it even tends to be the same faults within those specific episodes. So, I have a proposition for everybody: Consider Season 4 as if it were only 18 episodes long instead of 22. I think >90% of us agree that "Big Thaw", "Missing Hours", and "Cows of October" are not good episodes. As for identifying a fourth episode that is clearly out of favor with fans, opinion starts to scatter a bit though there are still trends. I see this as evidence that the remaining episodes are not fundamentally terrible, at least like the three I identified. But go ahead and pick a fourth one anyway, one that really sucks in your opinion. For me it's "Hell Hath no Fury". (The extent to which one may find positive things here or there in these episodes is beside the point.) After identifying your four discards consider Season 4 as a whole. Doesn't the air feel so much cleaner and fresher now? I know this process really isn't fair because they all count, but it sure does make Season 4 feel better. After doing this, I would go so far as to say that Season 4 is surpassed only marginally by Seasons 1 and 2 as the best one, and I'm not joking either. There may be someone who will still be unable to say much positive about Season 4 even after picking four to discard, an extreme hater. They will insist on discarding a dozen before saying anything nice. I feel sorry for that individual. Season 4 has a great vibe, a very unique vibe that is nonetheless quintessential Vice, and they just don't get it. So here's to Season 4 minus 4. Can I get an Amen, brothers and sisters?[/quote'] Love your idea - very rational! :thumbsup:I rather like season 4 too, besides a couple or two of the episodes. It's kind of hard for me to pick "the fourth" one cause my memory of all the episodes isn't good enough... but perhaps it would be "Amen, send money". (At least I have nothing against "Hell Hath No Fury"). And I have to confess that I liked "Cows of October" a lot, it's funny, if you take it more as a comedy than an MV episode. (The funniest thing was when I thought that if Crockett didn't get jealous of Gina, that "cowboy" would probably keep fooling them for a month. :D:D) But at the same time I agree that this episode looks rather ridiculous in a context of the whole show.

[MrsEvanFreed]

Season four is more MISS than HIT for me.It did finish strong with the start of the Burnett Saga though, it's only saving grace. Doesn't make me a hater, just an individual with my own POV.