"Forgive Us Our Debts"

[Guest myonlyvice]

some questions:1) Was there ever a time in any episode when Crockett claimed he did not have a TV? 2) Was that first scene after the teaser with Crockett and his girlfriend filmed in the St. Vitus or on a sound stage? The interior looked weird for some reason.3)What was the nature of the relationship between Barkley and Felicia and Hackman and Felicia? Barkley and Felicia appeared to be living together and romantically involved as well as being federally protected witnesses. But how could and why would Felicia be in witness protection too? Surely a girlfriend can't enter the program with her boyfriend. So was she married to Barkley? If so, why did she french kiss Hackman when he was released? Was Albierro telling the truth when he said she and Hackman were screwing back in the day and this why he did not testify in Hackman's defense? If this is true, and since Hackman really did whack the cop, what could Albierro have said in Hackman's defense anyway even if he wanted to help? This makes no sense because he would have had to perjure himself to defend Hackman. It's quite a risk to take. Is it possible that Hackman and Alicia were the original (cheating) couple but during Hackman's incarceration Barkley and Felicia became involved? Then when it became apparent that Hackman would be released Barkley and Felicia had to pretend as if nothing happened between them? This does not fit very neatly because Barkley would not be able to ignore his feelings for Felicia so easily. They were together for years in witness protection and then all of a sudden they just quit because of Hackman? Did Albierro know he would be killed after he gave his false alibi or did he just expect to die from his cancer? What was the point of killing a terminally ill person, anyway? Were they afraid he would rat during his final weeks? It appears that this episode involves a love triangle of sorts consisting of Hackman, Albierro and Barkley with Felicia in the middle. It's hard to determine though where the stories everyone made up to free Hackman end and the truth begins. I used to think this episode represented Vice perfection but the plot has too many holes to warrant this honor. There are other episodes too in seasons 3-5 that suffer from this problem of plots that are too messy to be justly resolved in 46-48 minutes. On a scale of 10 this one is more like a 9.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

some questions:1) Was there ever a time in any episode when Crockett claimed he did not have a TV? 2) Was that first scene after the teaser with Crockett and his girlfriend filmed in the St. Vitus or on a sound stage? The interior looked weird for some reason.3)What was the nature of the relationship between Barkley and Felicia and Hackman and Felicia? Barkley and Felicia appeared to be living together and romantically involved as well as being federally protected witnesses. But how could and why would Felicia be in witness protection too? Surely a girlfriend can't enter the program with her boyfriend. So was she married to Barkley? If so' date=' why did she french kiss Hackman when he was released? Was Albierro telling the truth when he said she and Hackman were screwing back in the day and this why he did not testify in Hackman's defense? If this is true, and since Hackman really did whack the cop, what could Albierro have said in Hackman's defense anyway even if he wanted to help? This makes no sense because he would have had to perjure himself to defend Hackman. It's quite a risk to take. Is it possible that Hackman and Alicia were the original (cheating) couple but during Hackman's incarceration Barkley and Felicia became involved? Then when it became apparent that Hackman would be released Barkley and Felicia had to pretend as if nothing happened between them? This does not fit very neatly because Barkley would not be able to ignore his feelings for Felicia so easily. They were together for years in witness protection and then all of a sudden they just quit because of Hackman? Did Albierro know he would be killed after he gave his false alibi or did he just expect to die from his cancer? What was the point of killing a terminally ill person, anyway? Were they afraid he would rat during his final weeks? It appears that this episode involves a love triangle of sorts consisting of Hackman, Albierro and Barkley with Felicia in the middle. It's hard to determine though where the stories everyone made up to free Hackman end and the truth begins. I used to think this episode represented Vice perfection but the plot has too many holes to warrant this honor. There are other episodes too in seasons 3-5 that suffer from this problem of plots that are too messy to be justly resolved in 46-48 minutes. On a scale of 10 this one is more like a 9.[/quote'] Far too many questions for me to tackle. I'll let someone else handle that.However, I don't remember Crockett saying anything about not owning a TV. I seem to remember him watching a TV interview with Milton Glanz in his boat in DEATH AND THE LADY.The interior of the boat was authenic.

[timm525]

Holy smokes dude, that's a lot more than three questions!I'll do the best I can. Perhaps you can restate the rest of your questions in question format so it is easier to dissect and answer? :radar:1. Yes, in Stone's War on the boat, Stone wanted to hook up his video camera to it to show Sonny the tape he took. Sonny said, "Wrong, I don't have a TV" Stone said "OK, you can look through the view screen on the camera."2. I'd say it was the boat.3. Partial answer:

A) I think they all had a great big circle going on with Felicia at one time or another. B) Hackman bought Albierro's testimony as he was dieing and wanted his family taken care of. That was the deal he made with Hackman.C) Write the rest of your questions in numbered format and we'll take a crack at them too.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

1. Yes' date=' in Stone's War on the boat, Stone wanted to hook up his video camera to it to show Sonny the tape he took. Sonny said, "Wrong, I don't have a TV" Stone said "OK, you can look through the view screen on the camera."[/quote']Your correct. I did forget that line, and I remember him looking thru the view screen. Just forgot the line.He obviously got a TV later on, as it appears in future episodes! (Perhaps he heard there was a hit 80's show called MIAMI VICE, and wanted to watch it)

[timm525]

He was watching it with his girlfriend (or whomever ) on the boat at the beginning when Hackman was on the news talking about wanting his "death to count for something".Sonny says something like "Oh man!" and she says something like "what's wrong?" and he replies something like "nothing that 50,000 volts won't cure".Also at the end of Amen...Send Money.And also Vote of Confidence IIRC?

[COOPER&BURNETT]

He was watching it with his girlfriend (or whomever ) on the boat at the beginning when Hackman was on the news talking about wanting his "death to count for something".Sonny says something like "Oh man!" and she says something like "what's wrong?" and he replies something like "nothing that 50' date='000 volts won't cure".Also at the end of Amen...Send Money.[/quote'] That's correct.

[timm525]

OK dude, just so you know the admins on here do everything they can to go out of their way for our members, I'll try and expand my opinions to your "hob-gobble" of questions. But for the love of God man, next time put them in a list!

3)What was the nature of the relationship between Barkley and Felicia and Hackman and Felicia?

I think Barkley and Hackman were criminal buddies. Hackman and Felicia were a couple. Or Barkley and Felicia were a couple. Either Hackman/Barkley and Felicia either got involved with/without Barkley/Hackman's knowledge or even participation or it happened after he was sent to prison or Barkley was the only man left. Kinda confusing huh?

Barkley and Felicia appeared to be living together and romantically involved as well as being federally protected witnesses. But how could and why would Felicia be in witness protection too? Surely a girlfriend can't enter the program with her boyfriend.

Obviously the Feds wanted Barkley bad enough to warrant setting up Felicia too. He may have made it a "package" deal. If they wanted him bad enough' date=' wife/girlfriend/whatever' date=' they would have set her up too.

So was she married to Barkley?

We have know idea if they were formally married as it was never stated in any ep. that I'm aware of.

If so' date=' why did she French kiss Hackman when he was released? [/quote']They were old lovers. Perhaps she always loved him but felt he would never have gotten out of prison. Perhaps there was a triangle between them years ago and Barkley had no problems with it.

Was Albierro telling the truth when he said she and Hackman were screwing back in the day and this why he did not testify in Hackman's defense?

I think that may have been true. Felicia seemed to get around and was comfortable doing so. I think he wanted Hackman out of the way so he could have Felicia all to himself. Perhaps he didn't know about Barkley and her. Or perhaps there was no Barkley and her at the time. Or perhaps Albierro and Barkley had their own triangle with Felicia. Or perhaps Albierro' date=' Barkley and Hackman had their own foursome with Felicia at the same time. Or perhaps...I give up!!! :rolleyes:

If this is true' date=' and since Hackman really did whack the cop' date=' what could Albierro have said in Hackman's defense anyway even if he wanted to help? [/quote'']He would have said, "He was with me in Daytona".

This makes no sense because he would have had to perjure himself to defend Hackman. It's quite a risk to take. Is it possible that Hackman and Alicia were the original (cheating) couple but during Hackman's incarceration Barkley and Felicia became involved?

Killing/robbing/what not was a way of life for them. How difficult do you think perjury would have been? As for the second part' date=' see my answer above.

Then when it became apparent that Hackman would be released Barkley and Felicia had to pretend as if nothing happened between them?

I don't think so. There was no pretending about it. If they weren't all in it together' date=' Barkley and Felicia would not have picked Hackman up from the prison together. If they were afraid of him, they would have stayed in witness protection.

This does not fit very neatly because Barkley would not be able to ignore his feelings for Felicia so easily. They were together for years in witness protection and then all of a sudden they just quit because of Hackman?

There was no "quit"' date=' it was a reunion.

Did Albierro know he would be killed after he gave his false alibi or did he just expect to die from his cancer?

No. Hackman bought his testimony as he was dieing of cancer and wanted his family taken care of.

What was the point of killing a terminally ill person' date=' anyway? Were they afraid he would rat during his final weeks? [/quote']He was killed so that he would not alibi Hackman and get him released.

It appears that this episode involves a love triangle of sorts consisting of Hackman' date=' Albierro and Barkley with Felicia in the middle. It's hard to determine though where the stories everyone made up to free Hackman end and the truth begins. [/quote']You said that right! I'm done now. Where the Hell's the aspirin?!?!?!?!?!?All good questions. Just next time please put them in a list format so it is easier for all of us to answer. Thanks! :thumbsup:Now I have to go back and re-watch this one.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

3)What was the nature of the relationship between Barkley and Felicia and Hackman and Felicia?

I think Barkley and Hackman were criminal buddies. Hackman and Felicia were a couple. Or Barkley and Felicia were a couple. Either Hackman/Barkley and Felicia either got involved with/without Barkley/Hackman's knowledge or even participation or it happened after he was sent to prison or Barkley was the only man left. Kinda confusing huh?

Obviously the Feds wanted Barkley bad enough to warrant setting up Felicia too. He may have made it a "package" deal. If they wanted him bad enough" data-date=" wife/girlfriend/whatever">

So was she married to Barkley?

We have know idea if they were formally married as it was never stated in any ep. that I'm aware of.

They were old lovers. Perhaps she always loved him but felt he would never have gotten out of prison. Perhaps there was a triangle between them years ago and Barkley had no problems with it.

I think that may have been true. Felicia seemed to get around and was comfortable doing so. I think he wanted Hackman out of the way so he could have Felicia all to himself. Perhaps he didn't know about Barkley and her. Or perhaps there was no Barkley and her at the time. Or perhaps Albierro and Barkley had their own triangle with Felicia. Or perhaps Albierro" data-date=" Barkley and Hackman had their own foursome with Felicia at the same time. Or perhaps...I give up!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:[quote name=">

If this is true' date=' and since Hackman really did whack the cop, what could Albierro have said in Hackman's defense anyway even if he wanted to help? [/quote']He would have said, "He was with me in Daytona".

Killing/robbing/what not was a way of life for them. How difficult do you think perjury would have been? As for the second part" data-date=" see my answer above.[quote name=">

Then when it became apparent that Hackman would be released Barkley and Felicia had to pretend as if nothing happened between them?

I don't think so. There was no pretending about it. If they weren't all in it together' date=' Barkley and Felicia would not have picked Hackman up from the prison together. If they were afraid of him, they would have stayed in witness protection.

This does not fit very neatly because Barkley would not be able to ignore his feelings for Felicia so easily. They were together for years in witness protection and then all of a sudden they just quit because of Hackman?

There was no "quit"' date=' it was a reunion.

Did Albierro know he would be killed after he gave his false alibi or did he just expect to die from his cancer?

No. Hackman bought his testimony as he was dieing of cancer and wanted his family taken care of.

He was killed so that he would not alibi Hackman and get him released.

You said that right! I'm done now. Where the Hell's the aspirin?!?!?!?!?!?All good questions. Just next time please put them in a list format so it is easier for all of us to answer. Thanks! :thumbsup:Now I have to go back and re-watch this one.

I have an ice cream headache.

[timm525]

And I need a beer!But hey, we aim to please on miamiviceonline.com! :thumbsup:

[Guest myonlyvice]

And I need a beer!But hey' date=' we aim to please on miamiviceonline.com! :thumbsup:[/quote'] You are the man for tackling this one! I appreciate it. After thinking about it some more, it seems my most of my confusion stems from whether or not a)Barkley had any kind of romantic interest in Felicia and b) if so, did he act on it? If he had no interest in her beyond taking care of his buddy's woman while he's in prison it seems strange that they would be living together. They were living together, right? Or am I reading too much into it? Anyway you also must consider what he said to Crockett about Felicia being the reason he did not show up at the trial to testify for Hackman. This could have been a line or he really could have been in love with her. It all goes back to a) and b) above. If Barkley really did love her I guess it's possible Hackman didn't mind sharing her while he was away but this seems out of character for him. Remember how hard he took the death of his girl in "Deliver"? It shook him so much it drove him to kill Cait. He doesn't seem like the sharing type. There is also the possibility that Felicia and Barkley were simply going to bury what happened while Hackman was away and pretend as if nothing happened. The French kiss marked the renewal of the Felicia-Hackman era and the end of the Felicia-Barkley era. Or maybe they're into three-ways and other kink??(I'm also wondering if Albierro knew all along that Barkley was still alive in witness protection? When his ex-wife came to kill him was it a surprise? I'm finding this one as hard to analyze in depth as "Payback"!

[MrsEvanFreed]

Anyone else notice that Guy Boyd/Hackman had really bad teeth?That's the one thing that jumps out at me, during the scene when he is released from prison.

[Matt5]

he also had a real greasy look about him:D

[MrsEvanFreed]

he also had a real greasy look about him:D

He screamed Skeevy Perv to me.