Episode #20 "Nobody Lives Forever"

[sdiegolo78]

2 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

There is nothing worse. 

Well, maybe when the server asks you if you need sauce for your medium rare ribeye.   (sorry @wolfie1996 )

OMG!!! Best reaction would be a stare-down:

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[Christine]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb sdiegolo78:

..on drugs? that's an understatement to me!

Okay, maybe totally bonkers fits better.

[wolfie1996]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

There is nothing worse. 

Well, maybe when the server asks you if you need sauce for your medium rare ribeye.   (sorry @wolfie1996 )

You're forgiven 

 

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said:

OMG!!! Best reaction would be a stare-down:

 

 

That’s EXACTLY what I do    

[Ferrariman]

2 hours ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Friends looking from the outside often mean well, until you get unsolicited advice...and that's very annoying

That's when you have to agree to disagree. 

(or tell them to mind their own business!) 

[Christine]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Ferrariman:

That's when you have to agree to disagree. 

(or tell them to mind their own business!) 

Let's be honest: When you're in love, you don't care about the opinions of your friends or family.

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

Let's be honest: When you're in love, you don't care about the opinions of your friends or family.

You do, but you don’t. 

Then somebody shows up at your door all bloody.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dadrian

[sdiegolo78]

2 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

(or tell them to mind their own business!)

....or to put it bluntly to but out!

Edited June 4, 2021 by sdiegolo78

[sdiegolo78]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

Then somebody shows up at your door all bloody.

...and resents you for the rest of the episode, even refusing to go fishing afterwards just to go trolling

[Jack Gretsky]

"Death - The 'Ultimat' High."  The three sickly-looking, devil-may-care punks introduced in the opening come off like mad dogs reveling in chaos and destruction.  The punk with the pre-Beastie Boys hat, Frank Military, went on to write two very fine season 2 eps - "Buddies" and "Little Miss Dangerous." 

Kim Griest has been in some of my favorite films like Brazil and Manhunter, but I don't find her enchanting as a love interest; she has too much of a Glenn Close look.  And Sonny's repetitious moo-moo cutesy scenes of lounging around with with her are a yawn.  It also seems too out of character for him to be so bewitched by her that he neglects his surroundings in a tense situation.  Gina's petulance doesn't seem like her either. 

Izzy doesn't show a lot of street sense by putting his shoe up on the punks' table.  He should have known these jibbering rowdies were bad news.  And his line to C&T, "They're already dead!" is too on the nose. 

I'm afraid that this is the weakest of season 1, but it's still entertaining and watchable - and certainly not dreary, which is an adjective that does describe some episodes in later seasons. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[ViceFanMan]

2 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

"Death - The 'Ultimat' High."  The three sickly-looking, devil-may-care punks introduced in the opening come off like mad dogs reveling in chaos and destruction.  The punk with the pre-Beastie Boys hat, Frank Military, went on to write two very fine season 2 eps - "Buddies" and "Little Miss Dangerous." 

Kim Griest has been in some of my favorite films like Brazil and Manhunter, but I don't find her enchanting as a love interest; she has too much of a Glenn Close look.  And Sonny's repetitious moo-moo cutesy scenes of lounging around with with her are a yawn.  It also seems too out of character for him to be so bewitched by her that he neglects his surroundings in a tense situation.  Gina's petulance doesn't seem like her either. 

Izzy doesn't show a lot of street sense by putting his shoe up on the punks' table.  He should have known these jibbering rowdies were bad news.  And his line to C&T, "They're already dead!" is too on the nose. 

I'm afraid that this is the weakest of season 1, but it's still entertaining and watchable - and certainly not dreary, which is an adjective that does describe some episodes in later seasons. 

This isn’t maybe a Season 1 amazing one...little goofy with the punks, and Brenda annoyed the crap out of me!  Totally agree “she” was out of character for Crockett. The Glenn Close analogy is dead-on...I should have thought of that, lol!  

However, overall the action is really good and helps “make” this episode! You can tell Brenda will go bye-bye at the end, too. In my opinion the weakest & most ridiculous episode of Season 1 is “Made For Each Other”. But, this one is still entertaining and fun to watch!  

[Jack Gretsky]

2 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

This isn’t maybe a Season 1 amazing one...little goofy with the punks, and Brenda annoyed the crap out of me!  Totally agree “she” was out of character for Crockett. The Glenn Close analogy is dead-on...I should have thought of that, lol!  

However, overall the action is really good and helps “make” this episode! You can tell Brenda will go bye-bye at the end, too. In my opinion the weakest & most ridiculous episode of Season 1 is “Made For Each Other”. But, this one is still entertaining and fun to watch!  

lol, whereas I love "Made For Each Other."  I like it when Vice did their occasional "screwball" quirky shows. 

[ViceFanMan]

6 minutes ago, Jack Gretsky said:

lol, whereas I love "Made For Each Other."  I like it when Vice did their occasional "screwball" quirky shows. 

That’s what makes the ‘show’ go-round & interesting! We all have our likes & dislikes, lol.  I typically don’t like the screwball, moronic episodes, as that’s not what MV was or was really about. Those seemed out-of-place, and silly attempts at trying to interject SNL type humor into something that was supposed to be serious and “darker” (at the time). But, that’s just me...to each his or her own!   

Edited August 29, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Christine]

These four punks looked like they were on drugs from the start. After they killed the first bookie and saw how much money he obviously had with him, it was clear that they would not stop.
What exactly Crockett saw in Brenda, I don't know. She didn't really fit in with him in terms of her whole manner. Even Rico could hardly believe it himself when he said, "Sonny Crockett in concert!"
As for Gina, we all know that she was in love with Sonny. No woman would like it if the man she more or less secretly loves has another woman whom he also seems to idolize. I understand that she seemed pissed off about that.
Tubbs was quick to point out that Crockett and Brenda were not a good match. The scene at Brenda's breakfast table makes that very clear. I love that scene and Brenda's angry look.
She was not a very responsible person in my eyes. It may have still seemed that way when Crockett overslept and she explained he needed the sleep in her eyes, but in the goodbye scene between the two she says her boss is used to her being late. To me, that meant: if I don't need to be on time, you can be late too.
By then, the thing with Tubbs had already happened.
What still amazes me in this context (even though it's a movie and of course it has to be that way) is that you saw these guys have iron bars in their hands with which they beat up Rico. Normally he wouldn't have been able to still go to Brenda's after that to show Sonny his damaged face.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

1 hour ago, Christine said:

These four punks looked like they were on drugs from the start. After they killed the first bookie and saw how much money he obviously had with him, it was clear that they would not stop.
What exactly Crockett saw in Brenda, I don't know. She didn't really fit in with him in terms of her whole manner. Even Rico could hardly believe it himself when he said, "Sonny Crockett in concert!"
As for Gina, we all know that she was in love with Sonny. No woman would like it if the man she more or less secretly loves has another woman whom he also seems to idolize. I understand that she seemed pissed off about that.
Tubbs was quick to point out that Crockett and Brenda were not a good match. The scene at Brenda's breakfast table makes that very clear. I love that scene and Brenda's angry look.
She was not a very responsible person in my eyes. It may have still seemed that way when Crockett overslept and she explained he needed the sleep in her eyes, but in the goodbye scene between the two she says her boss is used to her being late. To me, that meant: if I don't need to be on time, you can be late too.
By then, the thing with Tubbs had already happened.
What still amazes me in this context (even though it's a movie and of course it has to be that way) is that you saw these guys have iron bars in their hands with which they beat up Rico. Normally he wouldn't have been able to still go to Brenda's after that to show Sonny his damaged face.

Yeah, I love Brenda's response to what Tubbs has to say to her about where the relationship between Sonny & her is headed. I don't think Brenda's a tasteful but shallow jetsetter (just as I believe that Vice has a lot of depth to it beyond great clothes & music; a metaphor perhaps?) or Crockett is a middle-class dolt (he's a hard-partying ocean guy with questionable means! Wait, that's Burnett), but I get Tubbs's point, that Brenda just wasn't "getting it" on how different their world was. I would've been bugged by Tubbs not minding his business in this case, but the relationship with Brenda was affecting his work in a heavy way. 

One of my favorite things of this episode is that Izzy gets very serious on Crockett & Tubbs and shouts to them in reference to the Wild Punks: "You can't kill them man, they're already dead". That's spot on and the first thing I always recall about this episode; it was total armageddon with that trio ("Death- The Ultimate High!", wow, yeah, an individual or group who has that as a thought or slogan is one to reckon with) .

 

[ViceFanMan]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:57 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Revisited this one again last night. The infamous “Brenda-episode”...how most MV fans love to hate her, lol! 

I did not find the character of Brenda attractive at all, and she seemed very out-of-place with Crockett...but, I think that was the point! She wasn’t “bad”, per-say, she wasn’t a user/manipulator or a fake like Valerie was with Tubbs, I think she genuinely cared for Sonny...but she truly just didn’t understand the life of an undercover Vice cop. I think Tubbs’ analogies to her to try and get her to understand why a serious relationship with Crockett was probably not going to work, were actually spot-on (even though they were hurtful in the moment).

But, I like the way the plot wove together the tensions with Gina, Crockett’s poor choices of other women & his immaturity in what I call the “early Crockett days”, and all of this culminating in affecting his job & performance...the scene where Crockett and Castillo stare at each other when Castillo refuses to let him go out on the operation with Tubbs is very profound! 

The whacko-punks were hilarious...I especially love the idiot that puts the girl's panties on his head when they're goofing around in that old Pontiac Convertible--the first car they stole. Then later one of the other punks makes fun of the guy they stole the money and drugs from--in the restaurant right after Izzy sees them. In real life of course it would not be humorous at all...but on TV they were just so stupid and whacked out, that despite their deadliness I "cracked" up everytime I saw them.

I also liked the music (every time I hear “Bad to the Bone”, I always immediately think of the movie Christine, though, lol)  and pastel colored everything--even the bad guy's hot dog wagons were the "MV" pink and teal!  The fashion, especially Crockett’s pastel shirts & jackets were also awesome! 

Good background shot of the old abandoned Floridian Hotel as the punks were going over the freeway at the beginning...same place they filmed the meeting scene with C&T, Castillo, Trudy, and DEA at the beginning of “Smuggler’s Blues”—some torn up abandoned interiors for a druggie-den were also used in a later episode, too. “Ginormous”, grand resort at one time...really sad it wasn’t kept up and restored at some point. 

I just liked this episode--not my most favorite by any means, just another cool one that 's enjoyable with plot, action, colors, and even some humor! I originally gave it an 8...still stand by that. 

Watching this one again on my Blu-ray set. Above is my latest review from this past year. I still love the very beginning when the punks are going over the freeway overpass, and we get a good view of the old abandoned Floridian Hotel. It was where the meeting scene with Crockett, Tubbs, Castillo, Trudy, and the DEA took place in the beginning of “Smuggler’s Blues”.

Al Capone originally was part owner back in the 30s, and I hate it that it could not have been saved/restored! It was demolished in 1987...same time as the Blue Waters Hotel.   

But, I still crack up with the druggie-punks, and their spastic antics! In reality they would not be humorous, but on TV I’m laughing my rear off, lol!  However, I’ve never understood how or where in the world those idiots suddenly got a hold of women’s panties/thongs to put on their heads? Did they rob Victoria Secret or a sex shop, lol? 

It’s just silly to me that when they stop at one point, and are comparing clouds to skulls in the sky, they suddenly are putting these women’s panties on their heads!  But, the action, “darker” aspects in between-the-lines so to speak, and Crockett’s lesson learned the hard way on dating goofy women, still has me enjoying it!  

A punk wearing panties on his head...where did those come from? He probably wears them for underwear, too! 

Vintage postcard of The Floridian Hotel...1930s/1940s. I wonder if Capone stayed at the very top, back in the-day? It should have been saved & restored! 

Edited May 22, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[Swevicus]

Pretty "meh" episode for me, although the song "Heartbeat" by Red 7 saves it for me (also featured at the end of Michael Mann's 1986 thriller Manhunter), along with Castillo proving just how much of a reasonable authority figure he is, as well as master of the silent reprimand.

[ViceFanMan]

On 5/21/2022 at 10:07 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Watching this one again on my Blu-ray set. Above is my latest review from this past year. I still love the very beginning when the punks are going over the freeway overpass, and we get a good view of the old abandoned Floridian Hotel. It was where the meeting scene with Crockett, Tubbs, Castillo, Trudy, and the DEA took place in the beginning of “Smuggler’s Blues”.

Al Capone originally was part owner back in the 30s, and I hate it that it could not have been saved/restored! It was demolished in 1987...same time as the Blue Waters Hotel.   

But, I still crack up with the druggie-punks, and their spastic antics! In reality they would not be humorous, but on TV I’m laughing my rear off, lol!  However, I’ve never understood how or where in the world those idiots suddenly got a hold of women’s panties/thongs to put on their heads? Did they rob Victoria Secret or a sex shop, lol? 

It’s just silly to me that when they stop at one point, and are comparing clouds to skulls in the sky, they suddenly are putting these women’s panties on their heads!  But, the action, “darker” aspects in between-the-lines so to speak, and Crockett’s lesson learned the hard way on dating goofy women, still has me enjoying it!  

A punk wearing panties on his head...where did those come from? He probably wears them for underwear, too! 

Vintage postcard of The Floridian Hotel...1930s/1940s. I wonder if Capone stayed at the very top, back in the-day? It should have been saved & restored! 

The punk-Brenda episode!  Watching this one again tonight, but this time on a different Blu-ray set...above was a post of mine from last year. I still like this one. 

[Jack Gretsky]

On 8/29/2021 at 11:43 AM, Jack Gretsky said:

"Death - The 'Ultimat' High."  The three sickly-looking, devil-may-care punks introduced in the opening come off like mad dogs reveling in chaos and destruction.  The punk with the pre-Beastie Boys hat, Frank Military, went on to write two very fine season 2 eps - "Buddies" and "Little Miss Dangerous." 

Kim Griest has been in some of my favorite films like Brazil and Manhunter, but I don't find her enchanting as a love interest; she has too much of a Glenn Close look.  And Sonny's repetitious moo-moo cutesy scenes of lounging around with with her are a yawn.  It also seems too out of character for him to be so bewitched by her that he neglects his surroundings in a tense situation.  Gina's petulance doesn't seem like her either. 

Izzy doesn't show a lot of street sense by putting his shoe up on the punks' table.  He should have known these jibbering rowdies were bad news.  And his line to C&T, "They're already dead!" is too on the nose. 

I'm afraid that this is the weakest of season 1, but it's still entertaining and watchable - and certainly not dreary, which is an adjective that does describe some episodes in later seasons. 

I still mostly agree with my review from two years ago, although I'd place it closer to the "dreary" category.  (It's still better than many of the weaker episodes in later seasons though.)

The image of those punks rampaging everywhere they go is still potent.  But "Bad to the Bone" as their intro song?  It's a great track, but cliched much?  Even Glenn Frey's track is a let-down: It really puts the "low" in "mellow." 

[RedDragon86]

I give this an 8/10.

Edited January 16 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

I actually don’t mind this one…I think the character of Brenda is supposed to be a little “cold” & annoying, as then it won’t be a huge surprise when they break up at the end.  
 

The punks are moronic idiots…but again they’re supposed to be because they’re meth-head junkies, and (to coin an old phrase) higher than a kite most of the time. Despite how humorous & goofy they are (especially with the panties on their heads that I previously posted about ), they are also kind of scary & deadly…as they have no fear of violence or death—and seem to openly look for or create both. Basically, they’re junkie sociopaths. 
 

I also like the clear shot of the old Floridian Hotel in the background, as the punks go over the bridge towards the beginning…and there’s lots of action. This isn’t necessarily a superb or famous episode by any means…but I like it okay. I call it the “Punk-Brenda” episode, lol! 

[Robbie C.]

I enjoy this episode quite a bit, actually. A bit ahead of its time, if you consider some of the crime sprees we see today committed by junkie sociopaths. And the interplay with Brenda is perfect...a nice foreshadow of pretty much every woman Sonny gets involved with to get away from his police life. And even though the Vice unit underestimated the punks, Izzy didn't. He had them pegged all along. One of those instances where the street knows more about what's going down than the cops do.

[RedDragon86]

I just think that they could have at least written those 3 characters a bit better, gave them depth.

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by RedDragon86

[Robbie C.]

7 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

I just think that they could have at least written those 3 characters a bit better, gave them depth instead of them being complete idiots. 

Maybe in the same light as the The Escobar Brothers in "The Maze". Give them at least a few more brain cells to the point where you are not putting a pillow over your face every time they are shown on the screen.

 

 

I think they did what they could with the space they had. Between Brenda, the bookies, and all that there wasn't tons of room for character development for the punks. And if they're an expression of random street violence maybe having developed characters isn't the point. It's the sheer randomness and violence of these kids that makes them dangerous, not the calculated violence of the bookies or anything else.

And if they were complete idiots they would have been taken out (or taken down) much earlier than they were. There was a "live in and for the moment" method to them that made them both unpredictable and very dangerous (to both good guys and bad). 

[ViceFanMan]

Yeah, I think the punks were meant to be just that…junkie punks who were fried/high and very unpredictable most of the time. This actually made them dangerous and deadly, despite their outward idiocy.

They were not meant to be intelligent, calculating, or rational…such as Lombard or Calderone. They were supposed to be spastic killers, who themselves didn’t even know when they would commit the next act of violence or kill! They just impulsively acted when they thought an opportunity presented itself, in the moment.

Edited September 17, 2023 by ViceFanMan