wasted opportunities for continuity- test your Vice expertise!

[Guest myonlyvice]

This is related to my other thread about story arcs. How many instances you can think of where the writers/producers/directors should have referenced something from a previous episode in order to make the Vice "world" feel more interconnected or fleshed out, but they didn't for some reason? For example, in the pilot we learn that Sonny was a wide receiver for the University of Florida, #88. But shortly thereafter in "One Eyed Jack", in the scene at dawn when Rico comes to the Vitus and wakes up Sonny and Gina, Gina emerges wearing a jersey of Sonny's but neither the colors nor the number are consistent with what he would have worn in his football days. It would have been so cool to see her emerge in a blue and orange jersey with 88 on it. What an opportunity lost! The same thing applies to the final scene in "Freefall" with the KU shirt. I mean, come on! What show are we watching, anyway??? Another example is the actor who played in "Home Invaders" and in "Mirror Image", the black dude who played both the friend of Rico's up in Lauderdale in "Mirror" and one of the robbery squad cops in "Invaders". They should have made this dude play the same character twice and simply created a little backstory about how he transferred up to Lauderdale after his friend retired in "Home Invaders". They could have made a passing reference to the old home invader case and then moved forward with the stuff relevant to "Mirror Image". The effect would have been marvelous. I love it when screen writers take the time and effort to do this, to tie things together. Sometimes I get the feeling that some of the writers and directors featured on Vice hardly watched an episode before writing or directing one of their own.Does anybody else feel like I do? What other examples can you think of? I have a feeling this may be a "low response" thread since it requires a high level of familiarity with the show but I would appreciate hearing others' thoughts on this. Test your mettle!

[Ferrariman]

Agreed, there were a lot of missed opportunities! Two of the biggest loose ends they never followed up on were Rico's baby and Mario Fuentes missing 3 million. At the end of "Payback" Cates told Crockett "they're gonna be coming after you" but nobody ever did! They also never said what happened to Theresa. She was supposed to be going to rehab and Sonny was willing to do whatever it took. Didn't keep that promise either. As for characters in recurring roles, they did use many actors for different roles that were totally ridiculous. Two that come to mind are the adoptive father in "Baby Blues" showing up as Frank Mosca, and John Leguizamo, who was well known as Orlando Calderone showing up in season 5 as a totally different person. I know there are many other examples of this. I'll try to add more when I get time.Good thread!

[CarolineUK]

I love it when screen writers take the time and effort to do this' date=' to tie things together. Sometimes I get the feeling that some of the writers and directors featured on Vice hardly watched an episode before writing or directing one of their ownDoes anybody else feel like I do?

Yes, I agree. Do you think the turnaround of the writing & production of the eps was so fast that they didn't have time and/or the interest to worry about previous eps?I love it when shows bring in bits of the characters' backstories - like the recent Burn Notice prequel on how Sam Axe got his alias Chuck Finlay. On Vice, I loved it when Sonny and Caroline were in her new home, chatting when the baby crib was delivered about when Billy had been born.As for the plots which should have been developed: no mention was made after Gina had been assaulted by Ramirez in Give a little take a little - that wouldn't be forgotten overnight by her! I agree with F-man on Tubb's baby: that was a fabulous plotline waiting to be written ... or one still to come ... we wish

[Viceman Cometh]

I totally agree that a stricter adherence to a "show bible" would have been nice. Most TV shows have such a document so that, no matter who's writing the episode, they at least have some basic feeling of interconnectedness. Perhaps Vice's was just scant?It's probably also important to think about the era. Vice premiered just two years after "Police Squad!" was cancelled because network execs thought the audience didn't have the attention span to get all the jokes. In other words, it was a time when it was assumed the viewing audience wouldn't pick up on those touches anyway. Plus, a "self-contained" feel is always considered desirable for syndication purposes, when episodes might be shown out of order (although being self contained doesn't seemed to have helped Vice's syndication fortunes).Lastly, the current TV era is coming off the phenomenon of "Lost," which created belief in execs that viewers crave denser mythologies. Hence, you see more shows willing to do it that way now.

[Crockettt]

Don't forget about two actors in recurring roles: The first one is Joe Hess. He made his first TV appearance as Javier Escobar, one of Oswaldo Guzman's goons in the episodes "Down For The Count (Part I & II) He also had uncredited roles as various bearded goons in the episodes: Golden Triangle (Part II), Nobody Lives Forever, Walk-Alone, Rock and a Hard Place and Hard Knocks. PHOTOThe second one is Marc Macaulay who made his acting debut in Miami Vice as Czuko, one of Surf's KGB accomplices in the episode "Bushido", the hit driver who shot at Crockett in the episode "Streetwise", Doc Jerry, who buried (and lost) money from the robbers Cruz and Wilson in the episode "Bad Timing", and Johnny Cottman, the gunman killed during the HAVOC robbery in the episode "World Of Trouble". He is also one of three actors (Mario Ernesto Sanchez and Jay Amor are the others) who appeared in both the Miami Vice TV series and the Miami Vice movie. PHOTO

[Guest myonlyvice]

PHOTOThe second one is Marc Macaulay who made his acting debut in Miami Vice as Czuko, one of Surf's KGB accomplices in the episode "Bushido", the hit driver who shot at Crockett in the episode "Streetwise", Doc Jerry, who buried (and lost) money from the robbers Cruz and Wilson in the episode "Bad Timing", and Johnny Cottman, the gunman killed during the HAVOC robbery in the episode "World Of Trouble". He is also one of three actors (Mario Ernesto Sanchez and Jay Amor are the others) who appeared in both the Miami Vice TV series and the Miami Vice movie. PHOTO

This is really interesting! So Joe Hess played two different characters in season one's "Golden Triangle II" and "Nobody Lives Forever". These were fairly close together. Did you see the other thread about reused guest actors? This post addresses it perfectly. Very informative. Thanks, pal!

[Crockettt]

Yes, i saw the other thread about reused guest actors. Thanks for advice, pal!

[Guest myonlyvice]

I totally agree that a stricter adherence to a "show bible" would have been nice. Most TV shows have such a document so that' date=' no matter who's writing the episode, they at least have some basic feeling of interconnectedness. Perhaps Vice's was just scant?It's probably also important to think about the era. Vice premiered just two years after "Police Squad!" was cancelled because network execs thought the audience didn't have the attention span to get all the jokes. In other words, it was a time when it was assumed the viewing audience wouldn't pick up on those touches anyway. Plus, a "self-contained" feel is always considered desirable for syndication purposes, when episodes might be shown out of order (although being self contained doesn't seemed to have helped Vice's syndication fortunes).Lastly, the current TV era is coming off the phenomenon of "Lost," which created belief in execs that viewers crave denser mythologies. Hence, you see more shows willing to do it that way now.[/quote'] Viceman, for days now I've been meaning to tell you how awesome this post of yours is. You contributed a boatload of information in a short space and your reasoning is solid. This response was just out of this world. Well done, pal!

[Viceman Cometh]

Oh, shucks.

[airtommy]

On 5/11/2011 at 7:25 PM, Guest myonlyvice said:

How many instances you can think of where the writers/producers/directors should have referenced something from a previous episode in order to make the Vice "world" feel more interconnected or fleshed out, but they didn't for some reason?

For example, in the pilot we learn that Sonny was a wide receiver for the University of Florida, #88. But shortly thereafter in "One Eyed Jack", in the scene at dawn when Rico comes to the Vitus and wakes up Sonny and Gina, Gina emerges wearing a jersey of Sonny's but neither the colors nor the number are consistent with what he would have worn in his football days. It would have been so cool to see her emerge in a blue and orange jersey with 88 on it. What an opportunity lost!

This was a great idea for a thread.  Unfortunately, I'm drawing a total blank!

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb airtommy:

This was a great idea for a thread.  Unfortunately, I'm drawing a total blank!

In Freefall when Crockett leaves his boat he is wearing a T shirt from Kansas University, which is not exactly good football continuity either (but a good inside joke as DJ is from Kansas originally). 
 

There were lots of other missed opportunities 

[Robbie C.]

I could go on and on about this, but don't really see a point. Vietnam alone could have spawned many more plot lines than it did. And  then we have the characters themselves...Tubbs being miracled into Metro-Dade after breaking tons of rules (and likely a few laws) coming down from NYPD could have gotten far more reference than it did (Prodigal Son was thin because they missed a golden opportunity to link Tubbs back to NYC in a real way). Most of my fan fiction comes directly from trying to close continuity holes the producers left in Vice.

As an aside, I think the assertion that viewers couldn't deal with strong continuity shows until recently is wrong. Dallas proved that, as did Magnum PI, the original Battlestar Galactica, Gunsmoke, and many other shows spread across a number of television "eras." Vice chose to focus on style and image, and paid a heavy price for that.

[vicegirl85]

16 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

As an aside, I think the assertion that viewers couldn't deal with strong continuity shows until recently is wrong. Dallas proved that, as did Magnum PI, the original Battlestar Galactica, Gunsmoke, and many other shows spread across a number of television "eras." Vice chose to focus on style and image, and paid a heavy price for that.

I agree with this.  

There were so many missed opportunities.  We're never really told where any of the major characters came from (except Tubbs) and how they ended up in Miami.  OK, it was implied (I think in Made for Each Other) Zito was from Staten Island but once again, how did he end up in Miami???  And Gina has an Italian last name, but it turns out she is Cuban.  Was her aunt married to a man of Italian origin?  Did she live in Miami from the time her aunt brought her from Cuba?  Did Trudy come from the mean streets of Overtown?  I had a fixed idea Crockett grew up near the Everglades or the Keys (which was never said, I just assumed for some reason...), maybe because his hobby was fishing.  For me, just giving them a background would have increased some opportunities for storytelling inspirations.

[Dadrian]

So many stories for @Robbie C. to tell us...

[Robbie C.]

25 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

So many stories for @Robbie C. to tell us...

I think I've already done something like 2-3 seasons' worth already, depending on how you break down the novel-length stuff. Got another one in the works now, but it's post-Task Force...

[Mr. Calderon]

the intro part on "made for each other", the counterfeiting money shop, could be developed from a first part episode, to be continued/connected on the Made from Each Other episode.

[ivoryjones]

I know Golden Triangle does not have regular loose ends, but at the end of GTII it is very clearly put that Castillo and Lao Li "relationship" might  continue. This thread made me think about it (Brilliant of me, isn't it? Only 35 years too late). What if on season 2-5 Lao Li clan (or Lao Li himself) returned to face Castillo? Imagine that!