"Child's Play" - Season 4 /Episode #5

[Tom]

@miamijimfI think I found the smoking gun that it was the Senator. Or sorta.

We know from old pictures that the pelican or the blue heron (sorry I´m not an expert in birds) was part of the Senator´s art. See old pics below.

And here is the punchline: in the wall pattern left of Crockett & Tubbs there are the same two blue herons like in the external glass painting of the Senator. I magnified it but it is clearly visible. The rest of the wall pattern is not matching with the glass painting but how many buildings were in Miami with blue heron looking birds on it???

Please don´t tell me that is just another coincidence ! 

P.S. 7 great Senator pics: https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.fl0288.photos/?sp=6

Edited October 28, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Tom,  Your argument for the Senator is compelling no doubt.  The stone artwork to the left of Sonny's observer window points to an Art Deco building.  But as you know Lawrence Murray Dixon, who designed the Senator, was one of the most prolific architects during the Art Deco period on Miami Beach in the 1930s.  He may have used the bird motif on other buildings.  I've got Barbara Capitman's book, Deco Delights . . . and other sources, I'll look for more bird images.  The stone bird in front of the hotel is a pelican, but I guess you knew that.

Edited October 29, 2020 by miamijimf

[Tom]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

Tom,  Your argument for the Senator is compelling no doubt.  The stone artwork to the left of Sonny's observer window points to an Art Deco building.  But as you know Lawrence Murray Dixon, who designed the Senator, was one of the most prolific architects during the Art Deco period on Miami Beach in the 1930s.  He may have used the bird motif on other buildings.  I've got Barbara Capitman's book, Deco Delights . . . and other sources, I'll look for more bird images.  The stone bird in front of the hotel is a pelican, but I guess you knew that.

Yes I know and you are right, but what’s the odds of another Dixon building or even a non Dixon used in CP under given circumstances? 
 

Above the Stone Art heron birds next to C&T one can see pattern fragments of what seem to be leaves or bases of plants. On other Senator pics there are similar motifs but not exactly the same. I don’t know how repeating or unique patterns are throughout the same Art Deco buildings. I guess that’s different by building or architect.

I mentioned the pelican and the Heron, the third picture is showing two flamingos. So Dixon was a bird lover...

Edited October 29, 2020 by Tom

[Tom]

Just found another amazing similarity between the Senator and CP.

If we acknowledge that even within the Senator ALL bird art is unique (no glass picture/bird motif looks exactly like the other but just similar, as we can easily see from the old pictures) then this similarity of a blue heron looking bird and the island/trunks of coconut trees above is fairly mindblowing!

At first (when only looking at CP stills) I thought this stone wall art above the birds are some leaves, but when comparing with the bull´s eye glass of the Senator it looks like palm trees standing on an island above the birds.

Another coincidence? I checked other Dixon buildings around SoBe (Marlin, Tides, ...) and haven´t found any similar bird motifs there. And now as we have found this Art Deco typical art, we can rule out that the CP stakeout house was in Overtown near the 1401 N Miami Ave location of the other teaser scenes.

Another argument for the Senator: in CP we see that outside the C&T slide window there is a wall with window close to it in a 90 degree angle. That inside 90 degree layout would generally fit to the western part of the Senator (the building part behind the pool when looking from Collins Ave towards the Beach) but not with any of the hotels around. The slide window is not typical for the Senator -at least nowhere to be seen on the pictures we have- on the guest floors but could have been part of a staff wing in the basement or something.

Maybe someone from MDPL can help and recognizes the bird stone wall art in CP?

P.S. the old lady standing on the porch looks like Dorothy´s mother Sophia in "Golden Girls" !

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Tom

[Dadrian]

@Tom have you checked the floor of the gun range in Evan for bird art?  

[Tom]

Gerade eben schrieb Dadrian:

@Tom have you checked the floor of the gun range in Evan for bird art?  

No that is up to @daytona365 as the Stage D floormaster! He was the one who came up with the spraying leftovers from Smuggler´s blues on that stage floor ...

[Dadrian]

18 minutes ago, Tom said:

No that is up to @daytona365 as the Stage D floormaster! He was the one who came up with the spraying leftovers from Smuggler´s blues on that stage floor ...

I know, but I thought you may follow suit.  

[Tom]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Dadrian:

I know, but I thought you may follow suit.  

Sorta but not exactly. I specialize on walls not floors 

[miamijimf]

The similarity between the stone wall art next to Sonny's window and the art on the round glass in the front of the Senator is amazing.  That along with the other clues make me a believer. 

Also daytona's finding of spraying leftovers from Smuggler´s Blues on that stage floor is epic.

[Tom]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

The similarity between the stone wall art next to Sonny's window and the art on the round glass in the front of the Senator is amazing.  That along with the other clues make me a believer. 

Also daytona's finding of spraying leftovers from Smuggler´s Blues on that stage floor is epic.

Would be interesting to hear what MDPL veterans say about the bird motif and if they have some unpublished pics of the Senator?!

[Tom]

Here is where I suspect the Crockett&Tubbs slide window (see 1986 aerial of the Senator). It requires an inner wall corner with 90 degree angle as seen outside the window in the episode, with C&T looking out towards the beach and the pool (looking east). That layout detail is also fairly unique with the Senator´s layout as opposed to other SoBe huildings that are just square shaped and are therefore missing any inner yard 90 degree angles.. 

Unfortunately, that suspected spot is not visible on any old pictures we have, thus we have no visual proof.

P.S. the room(s) and hallway we see in Milk Run are located on the Collins Ave side facing the Marlin hotel vis a vis. 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

I'll check on what they have on the Senator.  Every time I message that nice lady at MDPL she asks me if I'm a member so I'll have to join this time.  But that's OK I used to be a member and support their activities.  I once talked to a guy who knew Barbara Capitman, man he had some stories.

[Tom]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb miamijimf:

I'll check on what they have on the Senator.  Every time I message that nice lady at MDPL she asks me if I'm a member so I'll have to join this time.  But that's OK I used to be a member and support their activities.  I once talked to a guy who knew Barbara Capitman, man he had some stories.

Their job is needed still. On Google Earth I was shocked how many ugly modern buildings without any charm have been built in SoBe that dilute the whole Art deco district. Let alone that all buildings are in communist white instead of pink/green/blue (Deco Drive, the Nemo Hotel, ....). Also, the building at 1201 Collins that replaced the parking lot that replaced the Senator is a Chapter11 filing for Miami Beach, as it is not only completely insensitive in style about its surrounding (it fits like a fist in the face in between the Marlin and the Tides) but also the ridiculous "needle" on top of it that is supposedly imitating the round needle the Senator had on the exact same spot. Is that guilty conscience for destroying the Senator? If yes, that is not gonna make it up. I also would send those people to a mental facility who replaced the Senator with a parking lot(!). Cannot imagine a bigger token of disrespect for culture and history.

Sorry to say but SoBe has completely lost its charm. In 20 years it will be crammed with the same garden variety condo style buildings that already have flooded 20th Street and up. Given the fact that most of these landmarks have been built just 70-90 years ago (before that there was mostly nothing or swamps), it is sad to say that in the US not even this short history gets preserved and protected. If a society is not able to appreciate even short history, it is doomed. If we in Europe had acted the same way there would be no Notre Dame and no Eiffel Tower anymore that American tourists could visit.

P.S. In Vienna our oldest church is 1000(!) years old and it still stands and is fully functional as a building, even between more modern buildings, let alone St.Stephen cathedral as the biggest church in town from the 1300s.(was completed 100+years later). We even got them through the war bombings and Miami Beach cannot preserve Art Deco from the 1930s and 40s? Maybe the US should spend less than 1 trillion (!) a year for the military and more for public infrastructure and historic heritage? Because in Europe all this preservation is primarily funded by public bodies and taxpayer´s money, not by private donations.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Tom, I agree with everything you wrote except that the US should spend less on defense.  But this is not the place for that discussion as you know.  I loved my three year Army tour in Europe and plan on going back.  Nothing is sacred in Miami or Miami Beach, not buildings, not parades like the Orange Bowl, not cultural or artistic works like the Miami Line, not history etc.  Money talks here, too loudly, but if you look at the past, it always has here, so nothing has really changed.  Nevertheless, this is my home, warts and all.

[daytona365]

"[...] Some rich man came and raped the land, nobody caught 'em,
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes and, Jesus, people bought 'em
And they called it paradise, the place to be,
They watched the hazy sun sinking in the sea

...They called it paradise, I don't know why
You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye [...]"

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by daytona365

[miamijimf]

Tom,  MDPL sent me this one so far.  It's one I have not seen.

[Tom]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

Tom,  MDPL sent me this one so far.  It's one I have not seen.

 

Thanks! A good picture, but the most significant part for our purpose is not shown (the wall of the main building facing the pool area on the 12st Street side) of course. Because there would be the slide window in question- if it was there at all.

[Matt5]

1 hour ago, miamijimf said:

Tom,  MDPL sent me this one so far.  It's one I have not seen.

Beautiful what a damn shame this is gone - a travesty along with the Fontainebleau mural. I know I’ve said it before but hell I’ll say it again.

 

[Tom]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Matt5:

Beautiful what a damn shame this is gone - a travesty along with the Fontainebleau mural. I know I’ve said it before but hell I’ll say it again.

 

Amen. Needs to be repeated. That´s living proof that free market does not work for heritage preservation and for stupidity. These morons built a parking lot instead. And now the have built another building copying the Senator in a modern style (with needle on top). Can it get any dumber than that?

[Tom]

Today I have found additional evidence that is strengthening my assumption that the teaser skid row scenes were filmed inside the Senator, together with the other previously shown evidence (doors, colors, floors).

Thanks to a video on the MDPL website I have found a scene of the demolition of the Senator on 12 October 1988 that shows the inner yard on the western pool side which is not visible on any of the old pictures available. As the Senator had (on all available pics) only big hopper like windows, a big doubt was still standing whether a smaller slide window as the one Crockett&Tubbs were looking through was there on this "dead" side of the building at all.

This scene proves the following 2 matching criteria that we were missing proof for:

• there was indeed a small sized (most likely slide?) window on the second floor that matches the size and location we can see in the episode
• the location of this window was directly at an inner 90 degree angled corner with a similar sized window on the perpendicular wall (as seen right of Crockett in the interior shot from the observation room)

Of course, this pic does not show us the bird motif next to the window or any details of the facade style that must have been there as well if it was the location, but it is too grainy and  given the look of the Senator on demolition day after 1 year of MDPL struggle they must have removed all ornamental stuff on the facade long before razing it.

Bottom line: the scene in CP could have been shot there as proven by the layout the Senator had on this part of the building. In my perception the odds that we have the right location have risen to 90% now based on half a dozen matching details which goes much beyond coincidence.

Feedback is appreciated (doubt or support), but I suppose we will not get any more or better evidence, as I have searched for days for more hard evidence but pics or videos of the Senator are scarce and we know all published stuff already.

P.S. The second pic is the Senator in 1987, picture taken by an Australian tourist. If you watch closely, the hotel has been prepared for destruction and the ornamentals like the pelican next to the entrance removed.

 

 

[Tom]

STRONG SUSPECT FOR THE LAST UNKNOWN LOCATION: THE GUN DEAL WAREHOUSE 1036 N. Miami Ave, Overtown

Most likely that the warehouse/weapons testing scenes were filmed right next door to the bar where Crockett and Tubbs met and roughed up Holiday (1050 N Miami Ave).

Key Hint is the stuff that was lying around in the warehouse when Switek tested the guns. There are plates, cutlery, dishwasher-like baskets, large cans like for flour or other kitchen ingredients, etc -everything that belongs to restaurant supplies and bakery equipment. And that was a restaurant equipment company and later also a bakery (G&Sons, incorporated Feb 1986) until recently. At the time of the filming, it was most probably the supply warehouse for the restaurant (called "Josefita" behind Crockett&Tubbs) that was in the same building as Holiday´s bar, with the bar´s diagonal entrance on the street corner and the restaurant´s entrance left of the bar seen from the front under the arches (seen behind Tubbs on the picture below).

Other unique matches are

• the elevated 2nd story gallery inside with indirect daylight from the front, where Gina appears. It seems to go alongside the whole side of the building, but no daylight from the side. A second story with gallery access is missing in most buildings on that stretch except one (but this has no large high ceiling throughout like in CP) but is well supported here including the length of the gallery alongside and the lack of sunlight from the side as the windows on the side of the building are fully patched over.
• The building seems to be consisting of two parts with one slightly more elevated than the other as indicated by the upper level of the door SWAT is entering compared to the level of the floor Switek&Co are standing on and the floor level of Gina´s gallery which is a approx.1m lower than the level of the front 2nd story balcony of the bigger building part where Tubbs&Switek&Holiday are. This is exactly reflected here on the outside of the building as well, including the dimensions (width of both building parts compared to each other from the street view).

I came onto this idea because near the teaser scenes at 1401 N Miami Ave there is a number of restaurant supply companies, e.g. ABC Supplies at 1345 N. Miami Ave that was used as the torched warehouse in "Lombard". Then, I checked all buildings on that stretch, but only 1036 N Miami Ave seems big enough as a building to host what we see in the episode and the abundance of restaurant companies in this area was too suspicious...

Bottom line: this is another 99%/too many coincidences/unique matches story for me. See my photo proof gallery below.

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

I am now fully convinced that we have found all locations of this ep, going by the strong assumption that my suspect for the interior teaser, the Senator, is correct. But it will be hard for digging up more evidence or find better alternatives. As long as nobody comes up with a better candidate, this ep is checked off for me location-wise.

My quality criteria are

• 5+ unique matches per case (e.g. details in distance, door frames, floor tiles, etc ....)  plus
• the absence of any "knock outs" (at least one point that excludes this location for sure, e.g. huge trees cannot grow within 1 year of a satellite pic taken) which is met in every single case.

For me, it does not make sense to further insist on 100% proof -which will be impossible to get then - with a long abandoned location without any photo proof or street view on the internet available when we have reached 90%+ match based on the above mentioned criteria.

P.S. 6 months ago, I would never have thought that it is possible to find all locations in this location-wise unusual and complicated episode (even though some are technically strong suspects and not 100% proven due to nature of the location and time elapsed)! Even with the gun deal location I was not aware a few weeks ago how many hidden clues can be found in these small scenes! Same as with "Made for each other" and "Great Mc Carthy"! We have strongly improved our location sleuthing skills!

Edited January 13, 2021 by Tom

[miamijimf]

Great work Tom and kudos to all of us, it is something to be proud of and I'm glad to have played a very small part in finding Vice locations.  Might be time to start sussing out unknown Burn Notice locations.  Could be slightly easier because it is more recent, but hardly any are really easy.

[Tom]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb miamijimf:

Great work Tom and kudos to all of us, it is something to be proud of and I'm glad to have played a very small part in finding Vice locations.  Might be time to start sussing out unknown Burn Notice locations.  Could be slightly easier because it is more recent, but hardly any are really easy.

Thanks but we are not done yet. Still 20+ locations left 

[airtommy]

On 10/27/2020 at 12:07 PM, Tom said:

 I realized that they have not used any sets other than OCB office scenes or morgue scenes in the studio since mid-season 3 for budget reasons

The only confirmed non-OCB/police station/morgue set I remember in season 4 and 5 is Yvonne´s house interior in Too much, too late. Most people do not realize that it´s much more difficult and costly to build a set of a "fucked-up" skid row apartment that has to look credibly old than to build a decently looking and clean morgue set.

Very interesting, this never occurred to me.