"AV Club" website reviews "No Exit"

[Viceman Cometh]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/how-miami-vice-launched-the-80s-on-tv-then-died-wi,83262/The article also does a nice job of recapping the show's inception and putting it into historical context.

[miamijimf]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/how-miami-vice-launched-the-80s-on-tv-then-died-wi,83262/The article also does a nice job of recapping the show's inception and putting it into historical context.

Very good article, thanks.

[DJAngel]

Thanks for posting this article

[Matt5]

Again thankyou for posting

[Lar]

I've read this before and it really is, I think, a terrific review. It helps that the writer "gets it", he knows what he's talking about (which is infinitely refreshing compared to any number of "It was all flash look at the clothes Phil Collins heh heh" reviews out there in internet-land). And his comments about MV's history and how it helped shape the decade are spot-on. Also, I was impressed that he recognizes "No Exit" as the turning point in the series, because I absolutely agree. It was with this ep that the show really began to find truly it's groove and fire on all cylinders on a more consistent basis (not a knock on any of the prior episodes, but as with any good series, there were some growing pains).

[Ferrariman]

Great review. I always said that "Vice" hit it's stride when Castillo came onboard. Lou Rodriguez was just too much like the loud mouthed boss on any of a dozen other cop shows and killing him off was a bold and shocking move at the time. Every cop show has one of it's stars get shot and they always pull through, right?! Wrong! When Tubbs said "Rodriguez just died" it told me that this is some serious s**t! It took a while for the show to find it's formula but it finally did. Just compare "Heart of Darkness" with "Evan" It's like a totally different show.

[Sonny-Burnett]

An interesting review but can't say that I agree with it in all respects however. The comment about the show not being as unprecedented as some claim is interesting ...but not supported. And his comment about 70s shows being just as mature and 60s shows just as stylish?? Sorry pal, not buying it. The comment that Vice was not any more sophisticated than Lou Grant or Hill Street Blues is off base as well imo, because Vice brought realism, grittiness, and a darkness that never exisited in any cop show previously.... the bad guys often won in Vice and that was unique. And let's not forget the totally unique introduction of period music in every episode. I also can't recall other shows of the period that "stole Vice's thunder " either. I agree that the loss of Mann's engagement and transition to Wolfe led to some darker plots and led to some occasionally pretty poor plotlines and a big change to what made the show a hit in the first 2 Seasons. But nonetheless this show was unique in its time and remains unique even today.

[miamijimf]

An interesting review but can't say that I agree with it in all respects however. The comment about the show not being as unprecedented as some claim is interesting ...but not supported. And his comment about 70s shows being just as mature and 60s shows just as stylish?? Sorry pal' date=' not buying it. The comment that Vice was not any more sophisticated than Lou Grant or Hill Street Blues is off base as well imo, because Vice brought realism, grittiness, and a darkness that never exisited in any cop show previously.... the bad guys often won in Vice and that was unique. And let's not forget the totally unique introduction of period music in every episode. I also can't recall other shows of the period that "stole Vice's thunder " either. I agree that the loss of Mann's engagement and transition to Wolfe led to some darker plots and led to some occasionally pretty poor plotlines and a big change to what made the show a hit in the first 2 Seasons. But nonetheless this show was unique in its time and remains unique even today.[/quote']I completely agree Sonny. It is an excellent article but I was thinking the same things when I read it but didn't have time at the moment to make those points. I can't think of another popular media production so closely associated with a specific decade. I know it is too much to ask and we don't really need it but it would be neat if there was a "Like" button on posts similar to what you see on Facebook. There are times when you really want to agree or encourage the writer but don't have time to write a complete response.

[Lar]

The comment that Vice was not any more sophisticated than Lou Grant or Hill Street Blues is off base as well imo, because Vice brought realism, grittiness, and a darkness that never exisited in any cop show previously.... the bad guys often won in Vice and that was unique. And let's not forget the totally unique introduction of period music in every episode. I also can't recall other shows of the period that "stole Vice's thunder " either. I agree that the loss of Mann's engagement and transition to Wolfe led to some darker plots and led to some occasionally pretty poor plotlines and a big change to what made the show a hit in the first 2 Seasons. But nonetheless this show was unique in its time and remains unique even today.

I agree with the rest of your post completely, but I'd argue that Hill Street Blues was just as revolutionary as MV, just in a different way. HSB could be very gritty and unflinching, and the unpredictability of the beat was often placed front and center. Main characters were killed off, had extremely negative faults (that weren't sugarcoated) and/or were otherwise screwed over, and often there were very downbeat endings; Often, there would be no clear resolution, and a pervading sense of futility hangs over the entire series, not unlike MV. Furthermore, the serialized format allowed for far greater development of both plots and characters, and the documentary-style filming was just as unheard-of for a "cop show" as MV's style was. It really introduced an entirely new level of realism to dramatic TV, just as MV did.Of course, HSB will never be considered as "decade shaping" as MV was/is, but it was lightyears away from pretty much any prior cop show, and I'd say it's the only one that held up post-MV-debut. Granted, the last two seasons (the "Norman Buntz" years) suck pretty badly, IMO, but the first five seasons are some of the very best dramatic TV of the 1980's. I've always said that HSB and MV did more than any other series to shape all of the dramatic television that followed; It's hard to imagine the likes of Law & Order, New York Undercover or E.R. without either of them.

[Sonny-Burnett]

very gritty and unflinching, and the unpredictability of the beat was often placed front and center. Main characters were killed off, had extremely negative faults (that weren't sugarcoated) and/or were otherwise screwed over, and often there were very downbeat endings; Often, there would be no clear resolution, and a pervading sense of futility hangs over the entire series, not unlike MV. Furthermore, the serialized format allowed for far greater development of both plots and characters, and the documentary-style filming was just as unheard-of for a "cop show" as MV's style was. It really introduced an entirely new level of realism to dramatic TV, just as MV did.Of course, HSB will never be considered as "decade shaping" as MV was/is, but it was lightyears away from pretty much any prior cop show, and I'd say it's the only one that held up post-MV-debut. Granted, the last two seasons (the "Norman Buntz" years) suck pretty badly, IMO, but the first five seasons are some of the very best dramatic TV of the 1980's. I've always said that HSB and MV did more than any other series to shape all of the dramatic television that followed; It's hard to imagine the likes of Law & Order, New York Undercover or E.R. without either of them.

I think I noticed the Lou Grant comment by the author moreso than HSB. ;)You make some excellent points here about HSB and you must have been a big fan. I was also a fan in the early seasons and I recall S1 was, as you said, gritty and unflinching and was a different cop show than had been seen before. It was shot with some sort of portable cam too as I recall which gave it a more realistic flavor and the characters were interesting to be sure. It was also a long running and award winning series. I did lose interest though after the early seasons and I think it was due to its serialized format which, at least to me, seemed to place more emphasis on character interactions week in and week out than on unique plot development. (interoffice romances, interracial romances, etc). I came to look at it more as daytime tv if you get my drift. But the ratings would probably indicate otherwise and I know the show had a huge following. To be sure HSB was a great series and I may be in the minority here in saying so, but I liked the unique plotllines and style of Vice more than HSB. I thought Vice was darker and saw more bad guys coming out on top than I recall from HSB. I liked the variety of Vice where it could go from Coke busts to politico to prostitution in just a few eps. (other than some infamous S4 eps)To me the character development in Vice was there but not in a serialized format so the viewer had new plots and storylines (for the most part other than story arcs) that I think were emphasized moreso, perhaps sometimes at the expense of more significant character development, imo. Maybe those same interactions in a serialized format are a major part of the appeal to big HSB fans. But I'm sure there are as many opinions out there on this as there were eps. Anyway, your points are well taken on HSB.

[Lar]

I think I noticed the Lou Grant comment by the author moreso than HSB.

Yeah' date=' that was definitely a bit of a head scratcher.

You make some excellent points here about HSB and you must have been a big fan.

LOL yeah' date=' I've loved the show for years. I actually had to go the bootleg route a few years ago for DVDs of seasons 3-7 since they're apparently NOT going to be released on the format.

I did lose interest though after the early seasons and I think it was due to its serialized format which' date=' at least to me, seemed to place more emphasis on character interactions week in and week out than on unique plot development. (interoffice romances, interracial romances, etc). I came to look at it more as daytime tv if you get my drift. But the ratings would probably indicate otherwise and I know the show had a huge following. [/quote']I can definitely see where you're coming from here, and the show did get more like a soap opera in later seasons, particularly seasons 5-7 (although S5 was still really excellent, IMO). I don't think it ever reached the blatant levels of soap opera-ness of, say, Dallas, though. S6 and S7 have their moments, but once Steven Bochco was booted as showrunner at the end of S5, a lot of the power, heart & soul just disappered. S7 in particular was a mess, IMO.

To be sure HSB was a great series and I may be in the minority here in saying so' date=' but I liked the unique plotllines and style of Vice more than HSB. I thought Vice was darker and saw more bad guys coming out on top than I recall from HSB. I liked the variety of Vice where it could go from Coke busts to politico to prostitution in just a few eps. (other than some infamous S4 eps)To me the character development in Vice was there but not in a serialized format so the viewer had new plots and storylines (for the most part other than story arcs) that I think were emphasized moreso, perhaps sometimes at the expense of more significant character development, imo. Maybe those same interactions in a serialized format are a major part of the appeal to big HSB fans. [/quote']Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying I prefer HSB's serialized format to MV's mostly self-conatined eps. I mean, I love HSB's serialized episodes, and they are definitely part of the appeal to me. Allowing a specific storyline run over two or three episodes always, to me, seemed like a great way to really let it play out to it's fullest potential, instead of shutting it down at the end of a single episode. The problem with that, though, is that if you miss the wrong episode, you could potentially be left in the dark, even with the obligatory recap at the start of the next episode; You almost need to see every episode, in order. And if a certain plotline isn't working, it can be dragged out waaay longer than needed.Frankly, I actually prefer self-contained episodes. I do love the occasional arc, and callbacks to previous episodes are something that adds a nice continuity without having to absolutely tie the episode to a previous one, though. However, any show can put out a 'good' episode, but what I love about MV is that there are so many episodes that just left me absolutely floored at the end. It's almost unfair to say this-or-that is "just another episode", because there's so many that are literally works of art. I really can't say that about any other show than MV. HSB never made me feel the same way I did at the end of "Milk Run" or any number of other eps, and MV's finale was infinitely better than HSB's, which was pretty anti-climatic.And I agree with you that overall MV was probably the darker show, there's a real sense of hopelessness that pervades the second half of the series. It's almost like you can watch the optimism slowly erode over the course of the show (not that the series was ever really "happy-go-lucky", of course).

[Viceman Cometh]

I didn't agree with all the writer's conclusions, but certainly appreciated a contemporary media critic giving the show a serious review.(Btw, I've been watching a 70s cop drama called Police Story lately and am amazed at how adult and sophisticated the storytelling is.)

[Sonny-Burnett]

I can definitely see where you're coming from here' date=' and the show did get more like a soap opera in later seasons, particularly seasons 5-7 (although S5 was still really excellent, IMO). I don't think it ever reached the blatant levels of soap opera-ness of, say, Dallas, though. [/quote']Ha, so true. As much as I loved JRs' wickedness it was definitely a soap opera. Then again it did have Victoria Principal....

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying I prefer HSB's serialized format to MV's mostly self-conatined eps. I mean, I love HSB's serialized episodes, and they are definitely part of the appeal to me. Allowing a specific storyline run over two or three episodes always, to me, seemed like a great way to really let it play out to it's fullest potential, instead of shutting it down at the end of a single episode. The problem with that, though, is that if you miss the wrong episode, you could potentially be left in the dark, even with the obligatory recap at the start of the next episode; You almost need to see every episode, in order. And if a certain plotline isn't working, it can be dragged out waaay longer than needed.

Well put. I think that did happen to me a few times that after missing a number of episodes I was lost until they came up with a new storyline.

Frankly, I actually prefer self-contained episodes. I do love the occasional arc, and callbacks to previous episodes are something that adds a nice continuity without having to absolutely tie the episode to a previous one, though. However, any show can put out a 'good' episode, but what I love about MV is that there are so many episodes that just left me absolutely floored at the end. It's almost unfair to say this-or-that is "just another episode", because there's so many that are literally works of art. I really can't say that about any other show than MV. HSB never made me feel the same way I did at the end of "Milk Run" or any number of other eps, and MV's finale was infinitely better than HSB's, which was pretty anti-climatic.

Many eps of Vice made me feel the same way. The endings were unexpected the first time watching, and the look on Crockett's face was often times the last thing you saw. Classic stuff.

And I agree with you that overall MV was probably the darker show, there's a real sense of hopelessness that pervades the second half of the series. It's almost like you can watch the optimism slowly erode over the course of the show (not that the series was ever really "happy-go-lucky", of course).

Definitely so, and esp after S2 I noticed this change. In S5 sometimes though I wondered if the magic was completely lost when it appeared the leads were not so engaged. Great thoughts.

[Sonny-Burnett]

I didn't agree with all the writer's conclusions' date=' but certainly appreciated a contemporary media critic giving the show a serious review.(Btw, I've been watching a 70s cop drama called Police Story lately and am amazed at how adult and sophisticated the storytelling is.)[/quote']Thanks for sharing the article and was good to read an updated review; at least it shows that Vice is still relevant to some younger viewers. I did think at times the author may not have watched some of the shows of the period that he compared Vice to. Can't recall watching Police Story, but I have a vivid if a not-so-fond recollection of watching other 70s police shows such as Charlie's Angels, Starsky & Hutch, Police Woman, SWAT, Baretta, Barney Miller and Kojak. Hmm as Baretta would say.... "and dat's da name of dat tune".

[Lar]

Starsky & Hutch, Police Woman, SWAT, Baretta, Barney Miller and Kojak. Hmm as Baretta would say.... "and dat's da name of dat tune".

There are several 70's police shows that have not aged well at all, IMO. It's funny that you mention Starsky & Hutch and Kojak, because while I know they have their fans (and I don't mean to ruffle any feathers), those are two that just have never really done anything for me. Starsky & Hutch in particular I have just never liked, and boy did I try. As for Kojak, I go back and forth. MeTV is currently running the series, and it's like one episode will grab me, but the next one (or two, or three), will leave me cold.I guess it's kinda strange that I could never get into those two series, because I actually really love 1970's cop/private eye/etc. shows. Even Quincy, M.E., which had a set formula and could be mega-preachy (particularly in later seasons), is a longtime favorite of mine.One thing I love about MV is that it really has held up nicely. For a show so incredibly linked to the 1980's, it's dated far better than most people give it credit for. It's the writing, and the acting, and the sense of style. It's like, yeah, no woman nowadays would wear some of the outfits seen in the show, you can tell the series is old, but it's never cringeworthy. It's like MV transcends all that, for lack of a better description. It's actually far more watchable than, say, Hunter (which I do like, BTW). I think it was the Amazon.com review of either S1 or S2 that said something to the effect of "hip fades, but cool is everlasting", and man, that really hits the nail on the head, IMO.

[Viceman Cometh]

Lar, you being a fan of both Vice and HSB, this review was custom-built for you:http://thiswastv.com/2012/08/20/review-miami-vice-brothers-keeper-series-premiere/

[Lar]

http://thiswastv.com/2012/08/20/review-miami-vice-brothers-keeper-series-premiere/

That's a great article! Thank you!

[Matt5]

Ha good post

[miamijimf]

I agree, thanks for posting. I did not see HSB very often but remember it was very popular and a lot of people I knew watched it. But from what I saw, there is no comparison with Vice.

[Lar]

This part near the end of the article mirrors my feelings of HSB and MV perfectly. Both revolutionary, both absolutely essential to the future of this genre, just in different ways:

The transition from Hill Street Blues to Miami Vice is an instructive one. The former is a show that works so well because of its strong writing (along with its editing), whereas the latter is a stylistic juggernaut. Although I am not expert, it is easy to see how Blues represents a connection back to the 1970s and character-based storytelling, whereas Vice is the signaling of a new era in television storytelling that puts a new emphasis on visual aesthetics and musical choices. I would argue that the success of Blues allowed something like Vice to happen thanks to its narrative and aesthetic advancements, but whereas Hill Street used editing and documentary-like camera techniques to support the written narrative, Miami Vice allows its style to carry the narrative load.

I love that he doesn't de-emphasize MV's writing/storytelling (which reached truly amazing heights, especially during the 2nd half of the 1st season), but rather concludes that the music & style enhances it, becomes part of it. That's how I always felt, and it's something that continually impresses me about MV.Seriously Viceman, that was a terrific read, thank you!

[Viceman Cometh]

I haven't done a whole lot of research on it, but apparently HSB is a direct descendant of the 70s' show "Police Story" I referenced previously. I don't know if they shared a creative team or if they are just "spiritual brothers."I tend to think of 70s tv as an overly simplistic world of good guys vs. bad guys, where bad guys always get their comeuppance in the last 5 minutes. But Police Story is not like that at all. The moral ambiguity is quite shocking -- to the point where I'm not sure it could get made today. In one episode, a senior cop didn't want to deal with the hassle of paperwork for a small-time drug bust -- so he lit up the joint and smoked it right there. And they showed the whole thing.

[Matt5]

http://www.avclub.com/articles/how-miami-vice-launched-the-80s-on-tv-then-died-wi,83262/The article also does a nice job of recapping the show's inception and putting it into historical context.

Excellet - very valid article . Thanks for sharing:thumbsup:

[Matt5]

I wonder if the AV club will review more ? or have they reviewed previous episodes at all ?