Tom Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Am 5.5.2019 um 18:12 schrieb airtommy: Good observation on the power lines. I didn't notice that before. The power lines are on their left and Alton Road has the power lines on the east side, so that means they were driving south. I think you've mislabeled some of your pics. You said they're all looking south, but based on the power lines I'd say the first 4 are looking south and the next 4 are looking north. I still can't find any specific features that can confirm this location. Thanks to your great pre-work, it was easy to prove that both of you were right. @Matt5@airtommy This was filmed on the stretch between 4570-4520 Alton Road southbound. See my photo documentary below as proof. This whole car scene consists of two segments that show Tony Hendra (Wiggins) and the right side of Alton southbound. The countershot on Bob Gerchen (Freemont) we can forget for this purpose as the shot to the left side of the road is too close to determine anything. First segment Tony Hendra (RIP by the way, he died last week!): two houses, first house in the background 4530 Alton, second house right after the first 4520 Alton. The houses were easy to match, just the vegetation is much higher in front of the second house and the first had a bit of remodelling, but the slim window on the right and the smaller house in front with the canopy are still clearly identifiable. Second segment Tony Hendra (he holds the cassette and throws it out): that was filmed a few houses earlier, with 4570-4558 Alton Rd in the background. The tree we see is the same tree, it has the same branch pattern. The pink walkways/driveways are the same as well. Another match is the curve (they drive at the strongest bend of the left curve where the warning signs for the right curve are) and the fact that this is the only place where the houses are that far from the curb. ENJOY! This was the last snippet of this episode that was unknown. P.S. The third segment after he threw out the cassette (the drive over the railroad crossing with the church) was filmed in Miami Shores as we know and was stock footage from Red Tape. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Some very tantalizing matches there, but I've also got some issues. 4530 Alton was built in 2018, so the nice window match is just a coincidence (also, possibly missing a chimney?) I don't see the circular driveway with the Caddy + Benz - today or on old aerials 4570 has a fire hydrant today, but no hydrant in the scene (is the view obstructed?) I'm going to study this some more tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) vor 33 Minuten schrieb airtommy: Some very tantalizing matches there, but I've also got some issues. 4530 Alton was built in 2018, so the nice window match is just a coincidence (also, possibly missing a chimney?) I don't see the circular driveway with the Caddy + Benz - today or on old aerials 4570 has a fire hydrant today, but no hydrant in the scene (is the view obstructed?) I'm going to study this some more tonight. I don´t see any issues here. 1. 4530 was built in 1948 and last sold in 2015 (https://www.redfin.com/FL/Miami-Beach/4530-Alton-Rd-33140/home/42776563#property-history, also see below: it was sold at 82k in Feb 87, just 9 months before this episode was filmed and sold for 700k in 2015, thus the house we see in the episode was obviously brand new and still looks like it today), it is the same house and was just slightly remodelled but the visual match is evident with the slim window and the total second floor. Even the left part of the second story looks the same if you watch closely - more slim windows that match, in between is a tree covering full view on the other windows in between, but all the slim windows are on the same place. The house in front of it with the canopy is also a clear match (see also below). 2 matching houses and the exact right portion of the curve (the curve and its radius looks different than on TV on all other parts of that stretch!). How many more matches do you need? 2. I don´t know which circular driveway you mean. There was a new U-shaped wall built on that front yard in front of 4558 Alton. 3. I noticed the fire hydrant is missing in front of 4570 Alton too. At first I thought it is just obstructed from view on the very beginning of the segment. But a fire hydrant that has been added since 1987 is no issue. A fire hydrant that was removed would be an issue. Edited March 20, 2021 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Tom said: 1. 4530 was built in 1948 and last sold in 2015 (https://www.redfin.com/FL/Miami-Beach/4530-Alton-Rd-33140/home/42776563#property-history, also see below), it is the same house and was just slightly remodelled It looks like a new house to me. 2016 2018 Edited March 20, 2021 by airtommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 vor 1 Minute schrieb airtommy: It looks like a new house to me. then it was rebuilt after 2018. But that does not change anything about the visual match between 1987 on TV and the Google Street view I posted and the property history I proved above. I don´t get what you want to prove. It all matches up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tom said: then it was rebuilt after 2018. But that does not change anything about the visual match between 1987 on TV and the Google Street view I posted and the property history I proved above. I don´t get what you want to prove. It all matches up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) vor 9 Minuten schrieb airtommy: So what? The house has probably been rebuilt several times. But again: on TV we see exactly the same house as there is now. I hope you don´t want to tell me that they built in 2018 a new house that looks totally different than the previous one but exactly matches the one we see in 1987? how explain this? (not to mention all other matches with the second house and the curve) Edited March 20, 2021 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Tom said: how explain this? That proves this is not the location. We are looking for a two-story house looming over the house with the window awning (proposed to be 4544), but 4530 was one story in the 1980s. Unless the camera is zooming past 4530 to look at something beyond it? Edited March 20, 2021 by airtommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) vor 8 Minuten schrieb airtommy: That proves this is not the location. We are looking for a two-story house looming over the house with the window awning (proposed to be 4544), but 4530 was one story in the 1980s. Unless the camera is zooming past 4530 to look at something beyond it? What? You want to deny what the picture comparison between 1987 and current Google shows? Beyond 4530 is 4520 and this also matches as I have shown. 4530 was a two story building as we can clearly see in the episode still. And the property history shows a huge jump in price after Feb 1987 that indicates a new buildng. The one on historic aerials (mid 1986) is different than today´s house. If you deny that 1987 episode still shows a 2 story house I will drop out here as I am too tired for a Trump like "alternate facts" discussion.... P.S. I jusr tried to do you a favor and close your old case that you did not follow up with since last year. If that was so important to you I am just wondering why you did not verify it? Thus your desperate attempt to find hairs in a soup where there are so many matches is a bit weird to me. For me the case is closed as the overall match summary is beyond any reasonable doubt and whatever was between 1987 and 2018 makes no diff here. Edited March 20, 2021 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 4530 looks the same in the 1986 aerial and the 2005 aerial and it's one story. That proves this is not the location because in the 1987 screencap it is two stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) vor 20 Minuten schrieb airtommy: 4530 looks the same in the 1986 aerial and the 2005 aerial and it's one story. That proves this is not the location because in the 1987 screencap it is two stories. Please again explain this picture then (in 1987 there WAS a 2 story building) and this was the right spot proven by ALL other exact matches around (the 4520 house match - the front, the wall, the power mast- and the curve and the tree. Otherwise this is a alternate fact discussion that is not worth doing. and this is the immediate neighbor house after 4530, 4520 Alton. This is a clear match. Thus the 2 story building we see in the 87 episode still is proven as 4530 Alton. Such a coincidence does simply not exist, as there can be no other pair of houses any where with these matches. let alone that combination of two houses on a long double-left-right-curved road with two separate lanes and a green median. Edited March 20, 2021 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Tom said: Above the red box, on the left pic I see a second story on the house. On the right pic I see blue sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 yellow = red-tile roofing? red = chimney? blue = I can't even tell which house this is part of I looked all over and I'm stumped just like last year. One important point: this clip ("rubber love by the blow guns") does not have to be on Alton Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) vor 4 Stunden schrieb airtommy: I looked all over and I'm stumped just like last year. One important point: this clip ("rubber love by the blow guns") does not have to be on Alton Road. I will not do any further investigation on this as this case is closed for me. There is no other logical explanation for so many matches and no other candidate either with the same configuration package. It seems any find will never be good enough for you anyway and there it stops for me. There are plenty of major locations unknown that are worth going after instead for me. Last year you did the same with the old solved case of the Duddy house in leap of faith. There is no other road than Alton with this special bend of double (S-)curve and median like we we see here and no other part of Alton that fits with this curve bend (same with the unique island in front of Duddy‘s including the interior matches). Edited March 20, 2021 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Vigilante Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Looks good to me, but I'm no expert. My brother and I enjoy trying to find obscure locations from films, and I've noticed a lot of locations look much different on film than in reality. I think a lot of it has to do with with camera angles/lenses and perspective. For instance, I just found another location from the movie "Starman" here in Tennessee. It took me awhile just based on the fact that the section of road in the film looked so much shorter than how it looks in reality. Anyway, good work! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 vor 38 Minuten schrieb Mr. Vigilante: Looks good to me, but I'm no expert. My brother and I enjoy trying to find obscure locations from films, and I've noticed a lot of locations look much different on film than in reality. I think a lot of it has to do with with camera angles/lenses and perspective. For instance, I just found another location from the movie "Starman" here in Tennessee. It took me awhile just based on the fact that the section of road in the film looked so much shorter than how it looks in reality. Anyway, good work! Right. Eg Google camera position on the car roof is much higher than the Camera Position inside the Mercedes they used in 87. With all these old locations we have to consider massive changes over time and imperfect proof as well. Thus I have a simple rule: if we have more than 3-4 clear matches of independent details that statistically exclude coincidence plus no knock out condition applicable (1 fact that excludes the location for sure) then it’s better to accept 90+% probability than to chase impossible 100% proof with obscure arguments especially as there will never be better evidence than now, rather worse due to further changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 very nice pics of the Great House Quayside incl. its marina seen in this episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 Criteria Recording Studios how it looked like in the 80s (compared to the episode view from Crockett´s car upon arrival) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 That Mazda RX-7 enhances the early 1980s feel of that photo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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