Overall Review & Rating--Season 4

[ViceFanMan]

20 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

The thing about it is when you watch seasons 1 to 3 you can consistently view each episode without getting bored or even embarrassed, while that's how I feel about the 4th season, when I view episode after episode. 

The first 3 seasons clearly had a vision and serious tone but s4 was a muddled up mess. It is so unusual you would have thought Donald P. Bellisario took over.

Ideally it would have been great if NBC approached Brian De Palma to see if he wanted to become EP for season 4. I wished they had somebody who understood the show after Mann, maybe even Nicollela could have took over. Wolf was so bad Don had him fired.

Seasons 1-2, I would agree. But there were some “embarrassing” episodes/moments starting in 3..although Season 3 was still pretty good. 

Seasons 1-2 seemed to flow or “gel” together better, but things seemed to change somewhat—or veer off course so-to-speak, starting in 3. It just got worse in Season 4, which made it more pronounced.

But, even after Wolf was gone, the show still got even worse in Season 5! By mid season, the word came MV was done. 

I don’t know who should have taken over...but maybe Mann should have stayed more invested for the long-run, and things would have fared better?? 

[RedDragon86]

24 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Seasons 1-2, I would agree. But there were some “embarrassing” episodes/moments starting in 3..although Season 3 was still pretty good. 

Seasons 1-2 seemed to flow or “gel” together better, but things seemed to change somewhat—or veer off course so-to-speak, starting in 3. It just got worse in Season 4, which made it more pronounced.

But, even after Wolf was gone, the show still got even worse in Season 5! By mid season, the word came MV was done. 

I don’t know who should have taken over...but maybe Mann should have stayed more invested for the long-run, and things would have fared better?? 

I am a big fan like you are the first two, they are pure Vice in everyway but I have came to the conclusion that I am grateful that season 3 is overall a strong and respectable season. Like you sense that the cast, producers, writers and even Jan are still motivated and care.

I wished Mann kept going until the end and Crime Story never entered his head because it would have been better visually and he of course supervised episodes and reviewed the scripts. The fact that he took key people like Nicolella was a blow and guest stars who would have been re-casted again, there might have been another Lombard episode in season 3 or 4.

That one in 5, the missing episode? was not good. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

I am a big fan like you are the first two, they are pure Vice in everyway but I have came to the conclusion that I am grateful that season 3 is overall a strong and respectable season. Like you sense that the cast, producers, writers and even Jan are still motivated and care.

I wished Mann kept going until the end and Crime Story never entered his head because it would have been better visually and he of course supervised episodes and reviewed the scripts. The fact that he took key people like took people like Nicolella was a blow and guest stars who would have been re-casted again, there might have been another Lombard episode in season 3 or 4.

That one in 5, the missing episode? was not good. 

 

Yeah, Season 3 was still pretty good & respectable season. It wasn’t as strong as the first two, but it was still enjoyable. I wish Mann would have stayed fully invested, although Crime Story was good, too. I loved Lombard and his whole storyline with the show!

However, there was only one “missing” episode & that was “Too Much Too Late”. All the other episodes aired on the network and in the original timeslot. But, many didn’t realize that 3 more episodes aired after “Freefall”, as it was of course aired as the supposed finale. So, some think that there are several “lost” episodes, when in reality that’s not true. 

[fakespyder]

I think Season 3 held up pretty well and I liked the darker visual tone. There were some worrying signs of a drop in writing quality though in a handful of episodes.

Season 4 started well enough for me. But quickly the season went from solid episode to crumby episode. I remember at the time going back and forth from "Yes, Vice is back!" to "What the heck did I just watch?! Peanut butter?! WTF?"

It was sad to see a show that had such a huge effect on me at a formative age, (14 onwards), seemingly spasm from one good episode to one god awful one. The merry-go-round of good/bad episode was taking it's toll.

The good episodes in S4 were extremely good and the final episodes of S4 saved the show for me.

The start of S5 gave me hope things could be salvaged. But the inconsistency merry-go-round had taken hold unfortunately. The show still had moments of brilliance but you could see it was coming to an end.

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, fakespyder said:

I think Season 3 held up pretty well and I liked the darker visual tone. There were some worrying signs of a drop in writing quality though in a handful of episodes.

Season 4 started well enough for me. But quickly the season went from solid episode to crumby episode. I remember at the time going back and forth from "Yes, Vice is back!" to "What the heck did I just watch?! Peanut butter?! WTF?"

It was sad to see a show that had such a huge effect on me at a formative age, (14 onwards), seemingly spasm from one good episode to one god awful one. The merry-go-round of good/bad episode was taking it's toll.

The good episodes in S4 were extremely good and the final episodes of S4 saved the show for me.

The start of S5 gave me hope things could be salvaged. But the inconsistency merry-go-round had taken hold unfortunately. The show still had moments of brilliance but you could see it was coming to an end.

Season 3 did hold its own to an extent, despite the somewhat “darker” tone. Although, the poor writing started to show itself during this season. But, I still enjoy it.  

Season 4 really started to drop the proverbial ball, with some really poor episodes/plots. And yes, peanut butter & “Missing Hours” not only was a disgrace to MV...but was the worst piece of garbage ever created by the art of television!   

I’m sorry, but the final episodes of Season 4 & the first ones of 5 were ridiculous and destructive...the ratings were so bad that it wasn’t long into Season 5 that word came down that MV was cancelled after that season. 

But, I agree...the few good episodes for Seasons 4 & 5 were really good (and showed the writers could still pop out “brilliance” for the show, if they chose to do so). But, sadly the really poor/bad ones were too much & too many to ultimately overcome falling ratings/viewers.  

[Jack Gretsky]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:16 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

I've been on a Vice high the past few weeks during my Epic Rewatch, but I'm afraid that Season 4 brought me down somewhat.  Season 3 was mixed compared to the great first two seasons, but at least 3 had a good handful of excellent episodes.  I'm having a tough time picking my five best of S4, whereas I had a tough time narrowing down my faves of seasons 1-3.  The Caitlin runner was clearly there for her murder to push Sonny over the edge.  Sheena Easton was charming, but it all seemed so forced. I'd rather they had tried to copy the formula of the first two seasons rather than experiment since the end results were so ho-hum.  

1. The Rising Sun of Death: Probably the most visually stylish of the season. 

2. Mirror Image: The amnesia/turn to the dark side might be cornball, but it's done with engaging verve here.

3. Love at First Sight: I'm a sucker for DePalma-ish erotic thrillers. 

4. The Big Thaw: Yup!  I did it!  I put this in my top 5.  It's not great Vice, but it's fun screwball comedy.

5. Indian Wars: This has a unique feel to its atmosphere - good story. 

Coming close were God's Work and Deliver Us from Evil. 

My overall view of Season 4 from last year.  It's a hard season to "get into," but I keep finding good things with each rewatch.  For instance, "Child's Play" would rank pretty low for me, but I like the return of Caroline and Billy, plus Tubbs' "I love you, man" scene with Sonny in the car.  Even the dumb "Amen Send Money" has a memorable foot chase scene with good location work.  The notorious "Missing Hours" is too "Lynchian" for MV, but it's good to see a rare spotlight on Trudy.  

I said "God's Work" and "Deliver Us From Evil" came close to my top 5, but less so this runaround.  In alphabetical order, I would round out the top 10 with "Badge of Dishonor," "Baseballs of Death," "Blood and Roses," "Death and the Lady" and "Like a Hurricane." Oh, and, why not, "Deliver Us From Evil" too. 

Outstanding Season 4 songs: "The Edge of Town," "Money God," "Winners & Losers," "Glory! Glory!," "Rag Doll," "Don't Dream It's Over," "Dirty Laundry."

Edited November 15, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[Augusta]

If the scale is 1-5, Season 4 rates a "2" with me.
I don't have any favorite episodes in Season 4---just favorite "bits" of episodes, I guess.  I can never stop admiring the opening violent scene of Victim of Circumstance--nicely edited (a mass shooting is a common scene on today's shows, but never had it appeared on MV before, so it was a perfect surprise).  To Have and To Hold always holds me, but only because a favorite actress of mine Elpedia Carillo is showcased in it, even by the swimming pool (which is rare for Elpedia).  
Didn't like Death and Lady, for the same reason I didn't like Season-3's Shadow in the Dark---they are both intriguing enough stand-alone ominous stories, but I didn't think they should be standing in Miami Vice's warm sunlit swimming pool, being investigated by OUR favorite cops.  Who invited a "get into the killer's mind" episode, and a "eerie model of a weird artist is and is not dead" episodes to the party? 

I really wish Vice had held out longer---objectively I don't think there is ever again going to be that kind of determination to drive excellence in a tv show to a cutting edge (to the point where you're INSISTING colors be restricted to this THIS, and conventional sound engineering be experimentally replaced with THAT).  I don't think any contemporary makers today have that much mind and that much obsession (obsession in a GOOD way, not bad) to make a superb show.  Even a show like Game of Thrones that I'll rate as one of the most intellectually-constructed and purpose-driven productions of anything from the last ten years, couldn't hold itself to a NOBLE purpose, and eventually revealed itself as having lackluster objectives (which were to milk the audience with a constantly open-ended soap-opera story structure, and keep adding gratuitous sexual debauchery for maximum cheap salivating from the audience).  
Miami Vice's purpose (with Yerkovich and Mann) was simply to be top-of-unique and excellent, with no intentional compromises.  How many people do you meet in Hollywood who have THAT objective, and mean it, and know how to deliver it?  

But even with that noble focus, SO many Hollywood storms were hitting them every year.  I understand FREELANCE writers were brought in for Seasons 4-5---that's got to be rough compared to having the original writers for your episodes.
Hollywood writers in general were in a rotten mood around 1987-88 (didn't they finally go into a full strike sometime around Season-4?). 
I guess we should just be humble and be grateful that we got two incredible seasons before the inevitable toils of Hollywood started their damage.  "Birds gotta mess up your fine car---and Hollywood's gotta mess up your fine show".  It's a law.

[RedDragon86]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:46 PM, ViceFanMan said:

Seasons 1-2, I would agree. But there were some “embarrassing” episodes/moments starting in 3..although Season 3 was still pretty good. 

Seasons 1-2 seemed to flow or “gel” together better, but things seemed to change somewhat—or veer off course so-to-speak, starting in 3. It just got worse in Season 4, which made it more pronounced.

But, even after Wolf was gone, the show still got even worse in Season 5! By mid season, the word came MV was done. 

I don’t know who should have taken over...but maybe Mann should have stayed more invested for the long-run, and things would have fared better?? 

To be honest with you after watching season 3 this time I am seeing plot holes all over the place, this season get praised for it writing but that is misconceived and its a bit conservative at times. "Stones War" for example is an anti American episode. Maynard initially was an ex military colonel who stashed drugs but then he turns into this guerrilla leader? nah.

Its's a good season but it didn't flow as well as 1&2 I think I skip at least 8 episodes.

Streetwise-Theresa-Better Living-Baby Blues-Showbiz-Heroes of the Revolution-Hooker By Crook-Afternoon Plane are not on my watchlist. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

To be honest with you after watching season 3 this time I am seeing plot holes all over the place, this season get praised for it writing but that is misconceived and its a very liberal, PC season as well "Stones War" for example is a disgrace, anti American liberal propaganda. Maynard initially was an ex military bad guy turned playboy in Miami, he was not a shadow stooge for Reagan, which is my main distaste for this episode. 

Agree! Season 3 was still fairly good for different reasons, but it did not “flow” as smoothly as the first two seasons...and I fully agree that there are some inaccurate, political-agenda type themes with some episodes. The “Capt. Real Estate” episodes are examples...Maynard was definitely NOT a Reagan stooge!  

He was a dirty, high-up military stooge...but more “liberal” () with being more on his own & probably eventually offering his skills to more international criminals. 

[RedDragon86]

16 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Agree! Season 3 was still fairly good for different reasons, but it did not “flow” as smoothly as the first two seasons...and I fully agree that there are some inaccurate, political-agenda type themes with some episodes. The “Capt. Real Estate” episodes are examples...Maynard was definitely NOT a Reagan stooge!  

He was a dirty, high-up military stooge...but more “liberal” () with being more on his own & probably eventually offering his skills to more international criminals. 

They changed Maynard's character too much in "Stones War"

He went from selling a shipment of drugs he stashed away to a military leader invading areas in South America with his troops in military transport aircrafts.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by RedDragon86