Has Anyone Else Noticed How Bad Modern Editing Is Getting?

[Kavinsky]

Now just out of nolstagia I've been catching up on some old cartoons that show up on cable, namely batman beyond, superman the animated adventures, along with the powerpuff girls.

 

and yes I'm man enough to admit the last bit lol

 

as hey its cute, funny and its got the singer of I'm hot tonight from the scarface and GTA 3 soundtrack playing one of the leads

 

 

but I started noticing something, the cuts per scene seem to be much longer than nowadays and I cant tell you how refreshing that is to watch that after being subjected to the modern stuff for so long.

 

where it seems like the average is about 5 to 10 seconds per cut, even in the action scenes, and one of these shows is only 10 years old by now too, so its not THAT long ago.

 

But then even turning on NCIS tonight, or rather last night it seemed like the editing for a simple thing like talking about a crime scene in the office at the start, with jump cut and reaction cuts to tony's face and him getting getting out of a car at the scene of the crime was on average with 1 to 3 second cuts for a non action scene.

 

and I gotta wonder has anyone else noticed this and maybe some modern shows that buck this trend and does things the old way? as I'd like to see them just to see how different it would be.

 

 

and I gotta wonder if this is perhaps why nolstagia is getting so big nowadays, that maybe because the TV feels like its constantly in overdrive it gives no time to get invested in anything and underminds its story telling.

 

and thus makes it seem like one big gigantic blur, and like the editors need to go on decalf, especially at commercial time.

 

 

hell maybe this is why videogames, and online services like netflicks and hulu are getting so big, it bypasses all of this and just gives you what you want with none of this bad flash editing and quick commercial attacks every 3 seconds and gives you time to comprehend what's going on on screen and let it sink in

 

unlike that Michale bay film from the 1990's, the rock which reportedly had that kind of average 3 second cut to it.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Kavinsky

[Diplo]

It really was different ten or fifteen years ago.

Sometimes I think it's somehow related to ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) being the craze with kids right now.

 

I don't know if recent cartoon shows produce kids like these, or if it's vice versa, that you can only reach kids by producing stuff like this, but to me, it seems to be co-related.

 

These fast paced cuts, combined with full close-ups, shaky camera, zooming in, changing focus while filming - at least in my perception, it all started late 90s/early 2000s.

Imho, this all started in the late 90s, when MTV was still relevant - some of these "reality-shows" on this channel used this type of editing - but also movies like "Run Lola Run" relied on it.

 

The first tv-show I remember was Kiefer Sutherland's 24 - fast paced, shaky camera, "mockumentary"-style.

 

In my opinion, sometimes it adds value to shows and movies, but sometimes it's too confusing and visually too overwhelming, so that you can't even follow the action.

 

If Vice was made post 2000, it would definitely look like this, too. You have to keep in mind, that Miami Vice heavily relied on video clip and MTV aesthetics. This was an integral part of the show and partly the key to its success.

 

I can't think of any recent show where it seems to be a deliberate move to cool things down by using a more traditional style, but in my opinion, the overemphasis of these stylistic elements is at least a little bit gone or toned down.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Diplo

[Viceguy]

Kavinsky, I hear you. I 100 % agree with you. I just hate the modern style of editing.And this is exacly the reason why I can't watch anything made in the 2000s and later - the editing is so damn annoying.For me, editing is one of the most crucial elements, because it sets the pace.If I can't even keep up with what's going on I will not watch the movie Tv show even if the strory is entertaining enough.And I believe that the scenes that consist of a dozen of cuts puts together without any nice camerawork always look cheap. It's like they just don't want to stop for a minute and put more thought into a scene.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Viceguy

[miamijimf]

Ya a good example of how editing has changed are the hand to hand fight scenes in Burn Notice.  You never see an entire fight scene from start to finish, just very short clips showing the fighters in various positions.  This type of filming probably takes less effort and stunt work but looks phony.  Nevertheless it is still a good show and has a lot going for it- lots of Vice locations etc.

[TylerDurden389]

And don't forget the blue-orange color timing as well. Either that or everything looks teal now. As well as the "Inception" Brahm noise in every movie trailer and movie scores all sounding like the Chris Nolan "Batman" movie score by Hans Zimmer. No joke, I recently saw "Escape Plan" with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvestor Stallone where they're inmates in a giant prison. There's this one scene when they're simply walking from room to another, and my dad leans over to me and says "So when are they gonna cut to Batman suiting up?". He was joknig about how the score sounded like the new Batman movies.

 

Ugh, I avoid most modern movies these days. I do a bit of video editing for fun and I'm honestly considering doing my own fan-edit of The Expendables movies to make them look and sound like the true 80's action movie throwbacks that we were supposed to get. Not modern action movies that just happens to star 80's action actors.

[Tekka]

It's got something to do with how the quick editing keeps the average person's attention. If they keep doing quick shots, people don't trail off and lose their focus because they can't help, but try to keep track of all the changing stuff they are seeing and hearing. I've heard people from the tv and film industry say its because their viewers are more ADD or they are so messed up from using computers and cell phones all the time they don't know how to focus anymore. I don't know if this is something they are taught in those workshops and schools the studios make behind the scenes types take or if it was just their rationalization for intentionally changing how and why they edit. If I had to guess it is a combination of orders from the execs and the general observation people aren't focusing well anymore.

[Stinger390X]

I agree with all of you. I also can't stand the "fast edit" form of storymaking used by filmmakers today.

I rarely watch any television these days as nothing excites me recently, and I am sick of sitcoms with laugh tracks, as I find them NOT FUNNY anymore. They are all full of zingers for comic relief instead of smart comedy that is insightful for a laugh.

The fast editing techniques may stop the kids from falling asleep while watching, but I find it annoying.

 

The true classics of cinema used long shots of facial expression or dialogue to tell a story or even use the eyes of an actor to tell a story and today its zingers, insults, tell the story via computer screens (watch any episodes of NCIS or LAW and Order, 24 or any cop drama, and the story telling is done by flashing a picture or drivers license on a screen and the investigating cop recites off a history of the suspect spoon feeding the audience a bunch of dribble about the suspect so we the audience are informed of the situation.

 

BAD TELEVISION PEOPLE................................................................................................................things must change!

[Matt5]

I agree with all of you. I also can't stand the "fast edit" form of storymaking used by filmmakers today.

I rarely watch any television these days as nothing excites me recently, and I am sick of sitcoms with laugh tracks, as I find them NOT FUNNY anymore. They are all full of zingers for comic relief instead of smart comedy that is insightful for a laugh.

The fast editing techniques may stop the kids from falling asleep while watching, but I find it annoying.

 

The true classics of cinema used long shots of facial expression or dialogue to tell a story or even use the eyes of an actor to tell a story and today its zingers, insults, tell the story via computer screens (watch any episodes of NCIS or LAW and Order, 24 or any cop drama, and the story telling is done by flashing a picture or drivers license on a screen and the investigating cop recites off a history of the suspect spoon feeding the audience a bunch of dribble about the suspect so we the audience are informed of the situation.

 

BAD TELEVISION PEOPLE................................................................................................................things must change!

 

 

Really valid points here   

[Kavinsky]

I really must appologize for my tardyness here, I'm really sorry I didnt check the forums here earlier to see all your posts guys.

 

things just got crazy and really started to develop on me after I posted this lol

 

 

 

but yeah that's the other thing, the music, I had completely overlooked that actually, as you very seldome have people use music, normal music, in an efficent and powerful way anymore

 

the exceptions being well, top gear of all things with the amon tobin score (sort of a jazz fusion kinda deal)

 

 

 

and Django Unchained

 

as its all scored now to sound the same, and you never get the kind of score like you had in the early days it seems like here:

 

 

with a few exceptions

 

 

and then when they do use a normal song, its never as good as vice did it it seems and I gotta wonder if its because they dont cut it to fit the scene anymore

 

take for instance, the face to face song from the Bren ten scene, listening to it alone you can tell its much longer than what you saw in the episode

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBZ69dVzWs

 

also I cant help but hear the bren ten going off when listening to the song normally lol

 

and with this example as well, but you only really pick up on that if your a big fan of the song, but even then its done in a very subtile way

 

 

 

 

now one of the things I remember hearing about vice is the way they did it was, they would film normally, do everything normally and then in editing, fit the music in, however, maybe in this day and age they reverse it?

 

think commercialism vs artistic licence, where they dont have free reign to just do it naturally based on what would work, rather just doing it because its popular.

 

hell think vice vs its copycats without a lick of skill back when the show first came out

 

 

 

also you know thinking about in terms of story and acting, I remember I had the NCIS LA bit on in the background one night, and the actress playing this weird info person was completely unaffected by what she was looking at, some CIA torture victim, complete with blood and guts, lying on the ground, it looked like some poor bastard that had been shot and she was just.....

 

so cheery and so not effected by it, that I couldnt help but mock it MST3K style outloud

 

 

also looking at this clip of that woman and the way she talks I cant help but see your point as well stinger

 

 

it just brings up my snide remarks to 11, I mean jokes and fun remarks are crucial for storytelling to give relief and make things tollerable in a bleak story, otherwise it can turn into a very unlikeable experence for the watcher or the reader, but to have them just be so peppy and annoying all the time and then call that character?

 

it just makes you wish someone would slug them to get that expression of their faces and get them to act like professionals and have some respect for human life and troubles. 

 

 

and then to contrast that to having Robert Stack in the Untouchables, which they had on ME TV a network that reruns all sorts of old TV as its name Means Memorable Entertainment

 

With reruns of Iron Sides, Perry Mason, Hogans Hero's and the above mentioned show, now they come across a guy hung in a meat locker, a mobster who went in to meet someone there, and he was the instigator and they actually look and talk like their effected, and have this good god look on their face when they come upon his body.

 

and all you see is the shadow of a hung man before they get the actor on the ground, and its just this shot of them walking into the locker, from the steps at the entrance in one take, until they see the hung man

 

then the camera pans to show the shadow, like it actually has gravity, and it feels like you should care.

 

so maybe this is all just a lack of craftsmanship on the part of the show makers that causes unintended disillusionment and lack of investment?

 

 

 

and with the ADHD thing and young people having it, I must wonder if its far simpler than that, maybe its just garbage in, garbage out? and with time and seeing shows of quality people would start to demand better programing.

 

Think old Sherlock Homes vs the new one made by the guy who does modern Dr who for instance:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX6a--uu6QM

 

 

 

 

 

after all while young people are full of energy and will watch and enjoy anything thrown at them, once they reach their 20's the mind and personality seems to change drastically, so maybe its just these people taking advantage of that?

 

and it just becomes embedded into their mind that things must be like that?

 

hell maybe alot these people dont even really have ADHD, and they just need to reset their minds and learn to work at a slower speed? after all I dont really remember hearing about this being anywhere near as big an issue it is nowadays?

 

it seem to be only an issue that's poped up in the last 15 years

 

hell maybe it was up to the actors to keep everything interesting in the old days, maybe that requirement is now reversed and its up to the editior, just by going off of that first sherlock scene vs the trailer there.

 

plus I remember Quentin Tarantino being very parcticular about the editor he used on most of his films, as all of them were supposedly handled by one particular person for the past 20 years and she passed away just before work started on Django I believe.

 

it would explain a great deal no?

 

 

 

 

and I must admit while watching tv now, normal network or fliping through cartoon network to watch the adventure time show, which actually seems quite enjoyable once you get used to the universe, I just throw a blanket over my head once it gets to commerical time.

 

as to block out the attack of light that is the commercials they use, and I've started timing it to a key to just walk out of the room and do something else between the break in the middle.

 

otherwise it would simply be intollerable, and it is, its like being Malcome Mcdowel in a Clockwork orange during the conditioning scene it seems

 

hell and some of the commercials they show on youtube occasionally are just big WTF moments in of themselves, such as the gieco ones with the paintings.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Kavinsky

[Stinger390X]

The fast edit may keep the kids interested in action pictures but lets talk reality TV for a second (which I hate with a passion)

 

The camera crew follow these idiots who think their stars around all day and film them. Then they sit down and edit all the main points.

Next they sit the guys down in chairs and ask them questions about what they see in a short film clip and ask them to comment. The comments are to create drama or conflict., or to for "saving grace" as they may have done something stupid.

 

The format is the same on every single TV reality show. It bores me to death whether its a bunch of guys in a swamp or some idiots fishing, or a bunch of rich women bashing each other over superficial nonsense.

 

I can not watch this mindless television whatsoever. It has zero entertainment value for me.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Stinger390X

[Kavinsky]

Yeah same here, although I think when survivor did start back in the late 1990's I did give it a shot for 2 seasons before I gave up on it.

 

and I used to watch professional Wrestling for abit in the early 2000's but I smartened up.

 

 

But I dont know really, I'm just trying to make sense of it all but with the way things are going is it any wonder people like Quentin tarantino, Christopher Noland, Ron Howard and Good Old Martin Scorscee are considered gods nowadays in the film world?

 

speaking of which, maybe this is far more telling than anything else really

 

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/19/martin_scorsese_you_cant_make_pictures_to_be_liked/

 

 

As everyone else wants there stuff to be liked and to make money, as that is what there job is and maybe that's just too strong to resist nowadays for anyone who's not an established film maker with a good box office record?

 

plus how many big budget flops have there been as of late?

 

or critical failures especially with Zack Snyder, who seems to be the new Michael Bay/Rick berman

 

and also if your not in the Know who Rick Berman is, he took over star trek back in the 1990's and he would veto any character conflict like they would do on DS9, making everything oh so bland like on Voyager and Enterprise.

 

and he always stomped out anything good they got going on either show or movie, in an effort to make it more Gene Roddenberry like, like TNG seasons 1 and 2, the really bad seasons that gene did

 

and this is something Garret Wong, the eternally miserable and suffering Harry Kim noted about 5 years ago on Trek Movie.com about him, not unlike what the Kid who played Westley has said about early TNG either with gene in control

 

plus he was the guy who fired the composer who gave TNG its flavor in the best of both worlds, and he was literally fired for trying to make the sound memorable like the star trek TOS movies.

 

hell I gotta wonder if Rick has a bumper sticker on his car that says I hate quality with how many good things he's destroyed.

 

sorry I couldnt resist chewing out Rick Berman, especially after killing something I loved.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Kavinsky