Tom

Episode 100- To have and to hold (aka Second Chance)

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Tom

We already know most of the locations of this ep, but a major one is still missing. To recap,1. Teaser: Church of the little Flower, 2711 Indian Mound Trail, Coral Gables2. Teaser: shootout, intersection Taragona Drive/Alhambra Court, Coral Gables3. Pedroza house: now it gets interesting. Although there are a unique clues - the Flagler Memorial Monument is visible in the background over Tubbs´ left shoulder (encircled in red), a causeway right of Tubbs´ face - see picture 1 - and some highrises, likely the ones on Belle Isle - see photo 2-, which would triangulate that the house must be on the northern tip of Star Island, I could not find a house that matches on any of the islands around the Flagler Memorial. The house has a pool with circled edges that is built directly at the waterfront - see pic3P.S. as this was the 100th episode, they made a crew photo at this location - see pic 5. If some of you recognize the location, please help!4. cemetery: due to the distinctive statues we nailed it down to Woodlawn Park Cemetery 3260 SW 8th Street5. restaurant with female hitman: no clue, the establishing shot shows a restaurant with "Silvio" on the front, but this may be stock footage from LA- see pic 4The shooting takes place at a real location, no studio. When Tubbs whacks the hitlady with the whig, a car is passing by outside to clarify that.6. Crockett and Billy take a walk: Lincoln Road Mall, Miami Beach7. Caroline´s/Bob´s House: no clue, could be anywhere8. Castillo questions Guerrero - the rail gives it away. Carlyle 1250 Ocean Drive9. Hangar shooting. The same hangar as in Evan. Thanks to C Glide, we know this was at Curtiss Lane, Opa Locka Airport, but the blimp hangar was blown up for the movie "Bad Boys" in 199510. final scene on the boat: Watson Island Marina, as Crockett/Tubbs are facing Port of Miami.

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miamijimf

Great work on these three threads Tom, thanks. I'll look at the still unknown sites as time permits.

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CarolineUK
We already know most of the locations of this ep' date=' but a major one is still missing. To recap,3. Pedroza house: now it gets interesting. Although there are a unique clues - the Flagler Memorial Monument is visible in the background over Tubbs´ left shoulder (encircled in red), a causeway right of Tubbs´ face - see picture 1 - and some highrises, likely the ones on Belle Isle - see photo 2-, which would triangulate that the house must be on the northern tip of Star Island, I could not find a house that matches on any of the islands around the Flagler Memorial. The house has a pool with circled edges that is built directly at the waterfront - see pic3P.S. as this was the 100th episode, they made a crew photo at this location - see pic 5. If some of you recognize the location, please help![/quote'] Hi TomI have been on two boats trips that have taken in the northern tip of Star Island. One house (no.19) was used in "Amen Send Money" but this house was demolished and is now owned by a seriously rich man who has imported identical palms which are exactly the same distance apart. A photo is below:Eingefügtes BildI have looked at the two dvds for "Amen send money" and "To have and have not" and I don't believe they used the same mansion, although they are both peach-hued, and over the shoulder of Brian Dennehy when he is talking to C&T in the house grounds, I am sure you catch a quick peek of the Venetian Causeway bridge, which is seen in your pictures from "To have and have not".Therefore I would say the location of the one in "Have and have not" is the plot to the east of No.19.While writing this, I have just looked on youtube for tours of Star Island and would you believe, someone has filmed both mansions from the water! Hope this helps you

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBhzcO3SLpY

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Tom

Thanks, Sue, I appreciate your help!Your right with No.19 and Amen ...send money. But the one to the east of No. 19 is unfortunately NOT the house from "To have and to hold", but it was used twice in VICE, in "Free Verse" and "Baseballs of Death", both cases it was depicted as embassy. The Address is 46 Star Island. 46 is the only adress that matches the triangulation in "Have and to hold", but the house is different in shape and color, as is the pool and its closeness to the waterfront.

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airtommy

the one to the east of No. 19 is unfortunately NOT the house from "To have and to hold", but it was used twice in VICE, in "Free Verse" and "Baseballs of Death", both cases it was depicted as embassy. The Address is 46 Star Island. 46 is the only address that matches the triangulation in "Have and to hold", but the house is different in shape and color, as is the pool and its closeness to the waterfront.

 

It turns out Tom and Sue were correct with their triangulation.   These scenes were indeed filmed at 46 Star Island.  The reason the house didn't match up is because of remodeling.  Comparing satellite photos from 2005 and 1986, you can see that the old pool was completely removed and new pool was built in a different place.  The old pool was closer to the water and the correct shape for "To Have and To Hold"

 

 

Picture_2.png     Picture_1.png

Edited by airtommy
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Tom

another location confirmed. great job, Airtommy! I suspected that anyway due to my triangulation. But shame on me that I failed to compare with the old airhistoricals to get to this result.

There is even a cast and crew pic at this location for the 100th episode with cast and crew led by Richard Brams being positioned in front of the brown wooden fence that was at the edge of the waterline and was to be seen in many scenes of this ep.

P.S. Thanks airtommy for scanning all the old threads. Your supersleuth support for details that may have been overlooked by others is very appreciated!

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Matt5

another location confirmed. great job, Airtommy! I suspected that anyway due to my triangulation. But shame on me that I failed to compare with the old airhistoricals to get to this result.

There is even a cast and crew pic at this location for the 100th episode with cast and crew led by Richard Brams being positioned in front of the brown wooden fence that was at the edge of the waterline and was to be seen in many scenes of this ep.

P.S. Thanks airtommy for scanning all the old threads. Your supersleuth support for details that may have been overlooked by others is very appreciated!

 

 

Great work !!

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airtommy

5.   restaurant with female hitman: no clue, the establishing shot shows a restaurant with "Silvio" on the front, but this may be stock footage from LA- see pic 4  The shooting takes place at a real location, no studio. When Tubbs whacks the hitlady with the wig, a car is passing by outside to clarify that.

 

6. Crockett and Billy take a walk: Lincoln Road Mall, Miami Beach

 

I couldn't find anything on the restaurant.

 

For the Billy/Sonny scene, I was confused by the big building in the background.  I couldn't find it at either end of Lincoln Road.  Then I realized we are actually seeing across the water to Belle Isle.  That darn zoom lens again!  The camera is looking west.  I bet C Glide will find the exact spot where they walk.

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DJWannaB

It turns out Tom and Sue were correct with their triangulation.   These scenes were indeed filmed at 46 Star Island.  The reason the house didn't match up is because of remodeling.  Comparing satellite photos from 2005 and 1986, you can see that the old pool was completely removed and new pool was built in a different place.  The old pool was closer to the water and the correct shape for "To Have and To Hold"

 

 

Picture_2.png     Picture_1.png

 

 

How did you get a 1986 sat image? My google earth only lets me go back to 1991.

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DJWannaB

Oops, nevermind. I found the map site. Sorry,  I cant figure out how to delete my posts.

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miamijimf

The Episode Guide, Season 5 on this site says the attack took place in the Salero Restaurant, 1000 South Miami Avenue, Miami.  There was a restaurant named the Salero at that time.  The restaurant there now doesnt look anything like the Silvio establishing shot in the episode.  Maybe the Silvio establishing shot was just stock footage and the filming actually took place in the Salero.  Inside it looks like an older place which matches the style of this older restaurant.  Where did the location info in the Episode Guide come from?  Maybe it's right.  I'm going to ask Chris.

 

Tom did you give the production notes to Kaipi for use in the glossary?

Edited by miamijimf
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miamijimf

The Episode Guide, Season 5 on this site says the attack took place in the Salero Restaurant, 1000 South Miami Avenue, Miami.  There was a restaurant named the Salero at that time.  The restaurant there now doesnt look anything like the Silvio establishing shot in the episode.  Maybe the Silvio establishing shot was just stock footage and the filming actually took place in the Salero.  Inside it looks like an older place which matches the style of this older restaurant.  Where did the location info in the Episode Guide come from?  Maybe it's right.  I'm going to ask Chris.

 

Tom did you give the production notes to Kaipi for use in the glossary?

 

bump

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airtommy

I found two relevant listings:

Silvio's Downtown Bar & Grill

7376 Bird Rd, Miami

Silvio's Downtown Bar & Grill

353 S.E. 2nd Street, Miami

Neither one looks at all like what we are looking for.

1000 S Miami Ave is now a restaurant called "Dolores but you can call me Lolita": http://www.doloreslolita.com/main.php

It doesn't look quite right at historicaerials.com, but it's way too fuzzy to make a serious assessment.

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Tom

The Episode Guide, Season 5 on this site says the attack took place in the Salero Restaurant, 1000 South Miami Avenue, Miami.  There was a restaurant named the Salero at that time.  The restaurant there now doesnt look anything like the Silvio establishing shot in the episode.  Maybe the Silvio establishing shot was just stock footage and the filming actually took place in the Salero.  Inside it looks like an older place which matches the style of this older restaurant.  Where did the location info in the Episode Guide come from?  Maybe it's right.  I'm going to ask Chris.

 

Tom did you give the production notes to Kaipi for use in the glossary?

I don't have the production notes of this ep but most locations were easy to find in a team effort. The Salero information came from me based on a hint that I had received earlier from someone, but I was not able to confirm this as real interior location. The exterior with Silvio is for sure stock footage from LA.

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miamijimf

I don't have the production notes of this ep but most locations were easy to find in a team effort. The Salero information came from me based on a hint that I had received earlier from someone, but I was not able to confirm this as real interior location. The exterior with Silvio is for sure stock footage from LA.

 

Thanks Tom.  A visit to this restaurant (now with a strange name) is probably the only way to confirm the location, if it hasn't changed too much.  I'll put it on my list of places to stop in Miami.

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airtommy

Silvio1.png
 
Silvio2.png

Edited by airtommy

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miamijimf

Is this Silvio's location in LA?

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airtommy

Yup, that's it!   :D
 
I had done numerous different Google searches for Silvio's in Miami and L.A. but I always came up empty.  When Tom said confidently yesterday it was "for sure stock footage from LA" that inspired me to try again and I finally found it.  I had to piece together information from several different articles, including these:
 
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/01/magazine/tm-silvio22
http://www.newtimesslo.com/food-wine/530/locally-grown-locally-made-/
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-13/entertainment/ca-7746_1_ma-maison

I learned that it would be within blocks of 8360 Melrose, so I searched Streetview and found it.

This article confirms the address is 8478 Melrose Avenue in West Hollywood, Los Angeles:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-25/entertainment/ca-5646_1_dan-tana-s

 

Oddly enough, that article never came up in my Google searches.  I only found it by Googling the exact address.  

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miamijimf

Man that's a lot of work airtommy, thanks it confirms the establishing shot alright.  Now someone has to visit the "Dolores but you can call me Lolita" (terrible name for a restaurant) and try to match the screenshots.  Currently I plan to travel there in the next few weeks.

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airtommy

When I started studying this ep a few weeks ago, I spent at least ten minutes studying the neon "Silvio" sign trying to read the script.  At first I thought it had an apostrophe, then I thought it said "Silerio".    :D

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miamijimf

The current restaurant Delores But You Can Call Me Lolita at 1000 South Miami Avenue, Miami used to be the Salero.  I found this article at http://thenewtropic.com/miami-history-what-was-there-before/ :

Dolores, But You Can Call Me Lolita/Sushi Maki &Salero/Mosaico (2004-2006) & Miami Fire Station No. 4 (1922-1984)

 

The two-story building on the corner of South Miami Avenue is one that pre-dates 1925 Miami. Built in the Mediterranean Revival style, it gained a place on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places in 1984 for both its architectural design and origin date. The building features lots of unique details that are often overlooked like arcaded porches, quoins and cornices, stucco walls, and balconies. It officially opened and operated as Miami Fire Station No. 4 for decades. Along the way, it switched gears to entertainment palace and experienced various reincarnations throughout the years. There were a few Firehouse Restaurants and then the raucous Hardaway’s Firehouse Four. In terms of Miami food history, it is important to shine light on its tenant in the early-mid eighties. Helmed by Ferran Adria alum, Jordi Vallès, it was a dual dining space. Downstairs was Salero, featuring a casual tapas experience. Upstairs was Mosaico, a more upscale dining experience bordering on molecular gastronomy. Alas, it was too early for its time and had a short lifespan. In 2007, Dolores But You Can Call Me Lolita opened in the space. Part of the space is occupied by Sushi Maki, which opened in 2010. As Brickell catapults into sky-high power, both restaurants sit on what is poised to become an even cooler corner.

 

I'll bet the info that Tom received was good about the location of the restaurant in the episode.

 

Here is a less certain clue - there is a somewhat similar feature in the inside roof in both this screen shot and a current photo (although quite a bit changed now if it is the same)

 

PDVD 002

 

Noname

 

Edited by miamijimf
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C Glide

I just published this episode on my site. Here is a direct link to the page. http://www.miamivicelocations5.org/page21.html The other links are misaligned and I am aware of this so links are a little off temporarily. Has to do with the computer issues I had and reloading the sites. I will work to fix it very soon but right now I am off to thanksgiving with family. The main index page is now page 3 not page 2.

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