Paul Veres Posted December 20, 2023 Report Share Posted December 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Tom said: Searched again for all houses but extended year built range from 1930 to 1960. Most of resulting houses (750) rule out due to wrong direction (entrance facing north or west), but I did not find anything. Important to note is that these filtered type of houses are mainly in Coral Gables, a few in Miami Shores and Miami Beach, but practically none at all in Pinecrest and south or north of the Greenwich studios. I cannot check Broward County with this tool, but due to this tool the mystery house is NOT in Dade County at all. And since we are filtering for the correct built date I have to assume if the house had been razed and rebuilt, then the new built date would disqualify in the search. But as I countrchecked all finds with historic aerials of 1986 I can rule out that the house slipped under our radar. Mystery remains despite heavy data science IT tool weaponry. SH.T. Oh gosh well Broward is a whole new can of worms then I guess. And still progress through elimination! I don't have as good knowledge of it as of the Dade county to narrow down the focus, unfortunately. Will try to find some similar map here: https://geohub-bcgis.opendata.arcgis.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 @Tom, @daytona365 ... I have it… It’s been sought for so long, I don’t feel like immediately revealing it in one post... Especially because the final finding method is quite unclimactic given all the effort put in, so I’ll leave that to the last of my few posts below, along with the exact address. But here it is in 2009, in all its only-available-in-low-res-photo glory, though the door is different these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 On 12/18/2023 at 7:24 PM, Paul Veres said: @Tom I still think the most realistic "easiest" way is to scan through the county data. Unless it was demolished, but that's a dead end scenario anyway. https://gis-mdc.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/MDC::property-boundary-view Filter like I did below (you can't have the same number at both ends of the spectrum, so I do 2 to 3 floors), and you only need to look at 562 houses! As a sanity check, on the map I circled that Coral Gables 3211 Anderson Rd home you found before. As you move along the map, many you won't need to look at because we require a relatively fast frequently traveled road near it, and obviously if there is a large building behind it, you'll be skipping even more. I browsed a bit, and haven't found it, but your perseverance with this crown jewel of locations will be stronger than mine. Based on the vibe from all the frames we've pored over for so long, my gut tells me Coral Gables through High Pines and Ponce-David to Pinecrest, but there are a few homes outside of this area also fitting the filtering criteria. By the way, my latest methodology actually could have delivered it, we just didn’t look well enough – here it is as one of the 627 houses filtered down to by those proposed parameters. The house was built in 1946 and it sits on an enormous 2.5-acre lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 (edited) It ended up being in South Miami, which is certainly not out of the core realm we thought of, but never really came up as a focus of search. I probably drove by it once or twice, but here is why we never really found it through remote search. 1. Its tall hedging and long driveway behind a gate prohibit good observation from available Google Street views. This is the best one to see, from 2021: 2. It faces East, not South, which was pretty much ruled out originally, so we chased differently oriented houses. 3. From above, it is very well hidden by mature tree canopies: 4. It had a huge addition built in 2012 (2,496 sq ft vs the original 3,821 sq ft), which distorts the floor plans we drafted. Though even on historical aerials where it doesn’t have the addition it’s hard to match it due to all the vegetation and the part of the house unseen in the episode, which appears to be quite significant in size: 5. It has a pool with a pool house, which was never a definitive clue of any sort to us. Though we do see a tiny bit of the pool house’s roof/wall behind Crockett in a couple of frames. The pool must be behind that chain link fence. They really put effort into filming to the left and right of Crockett without revealing the pool / pool house – not sure if there was an idea that a pool would be “too Miami” for Georgia. 6. The street behind Crockett is almost misleadingly busy in the episode. It now seems it must be the road in front of the house (which has 3 adjacent neighbors), but I’d never think of it, even today, as having that many cars in that short time. 7. The wall is also confusing, because while there are some walls there now, the 80s aerials don’t seem to have them though I’m not sure. Edited February 18 by Paul Veres 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 With the few crappy pictures available online and challenges above, it’s hard to quickly match it even knowing it is the house! Maybe it’s not the house?? The photos we do have ultimately make the match sure. Here are a few observations. You can find all the photos in this Zillow listing – the house was last sold in 2009, hence the crappy photo quality. I might drive to it at some point, though with that hedge and gate, I unfortunately won’t be able to get too close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 As to the source, I asked Derek, the MV 40 anniversary organizer, and he had the production sheet. Here it is, and there is the address. It is quite amazing how much time we’ve spent while it’s just sort of out there… Fun hunt though anyway! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: As to the source, I asked Derek, the MV 40 anniversary organizer, and he had the production sheet. Here it is, and there is the address. It is quite amazing how much time we’ve spent while it’s just sort of out there… Fun hunt though anyway! Wow you earned your place in location sleuth hall of fame for this find. I searched every single house in South Miami but due to all the reasons you mentioned I failed to see it! I hope that Derek also has the sheets from Borrasca and Miami Squeeze to find the other two unknown 5th season locations! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 Am 24.5.2020 um 18:10 schrieb Tom: Unknown location solved? The movie theater where Crockett & Billy watch the Frankenstein flick. The walk scene Crockett & Billy before was filmed on 600 block of Lincoln Road Mall, as also confirmed by CGlide on his location page. http://www.miamivicelocations5.org/page21.html The Movie theater afterwards is still unknown, but it is very likely that this was the Colony Theater at 1040 Lincoln Road. http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/3085/photos/215097 ... I am 90% convinced by the layout and the location logistics argument in this case (they rather filmed the walk at Lincoln Road because of the theater location and not vice versa). What do you think? P.S. of course I checked other theaters too but they disqualify. The Lincoln Theater that was at 541 Lincoln Road and therefore exactly next the filming location of the walk in this episode, was closed between the early 80s and 1990 when it was renovated for 1+m USD., so it could not have been used for filming in Dec 1988. Another fact speaking in favor of the Colony is the 465 seats total stated which matches approximately what we see in the episode (bear in mind that the 465 relate to the time when it was a movie theater. It was restored afterwards and rebuild into a performing arts theater with stage). The Lincoln had 750 seats. now with the location list of this episode organized by @Paul Vereswe know that they indeed filmed inside Lincoln Theater which was closed at the time for renovation. Interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 (edited) I found pretty good 3D aerials on the Miami Dade property records BING site which has annual aerials since 2007 (date in the upper left corner of the pics below): It shows that the seating area of Crockett and Caroline looked pretty much like in the episode until 2008 - first few pics. The thick L-shaped hedge behind Crockett (whose purpose I never really understood) was the hedge around the pool whose pool house they magically blacked out by careful camera work. Somewhere in 2012 they remodelled the house strongly and build new buildings where C&C sat down so that the whole terrace was destroyed. See views from south and west below. The view from the east (entrance side) is blocked by trees over all the years. The last pic is how the property looks today from above, with the house in the same building state as 2012 (big remodelling). Wow, what a find, a 20+year search is over and the house was close to Coral Gables locations in this episode and I specifically searched this area last year when I cruised around there with @Paul Veresin his car on Miller Drove and SW60 just a few blocks away Edited February 18 by Tom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 Also interesting: the house was sold in August 1991 by Richard Lancaster, the owner at the time of filming to the next owner. The 2012 extension was nearly as big as the original house, adding more than 2000 square feet to the original 3000+sq.feet. The sketch in the Miami Dade property database is also below. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 18 Author Report Share Posted February 18 vor 6 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: As to the source, I asked Derek, the MV 40 anniversary organizer, and he had the production sheet. Here it is, and there is the address. It is quite amazing how much time we’ve spent while it’s just sort of out there… Fun hunt though anyway! @Paul VeresCan you please ask Derek for other episodes, especially Borrasca (carpentry location) and Miami Squeeze (shooting range) and the killsite in Love at first sight? I suspect he is the guy who bought the 111 episode location and production notes boxes from late Robert Hoelscher in 2022! If he is, he can help us finding all 5 missing locations in one go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtommy Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Somebody contact Tom's family and tell them not to make any noise for the next 48 hours as he catches up on 5 years of lost sleep. I was 200% convinced the house was in Miami Shores or near there, based on the crew member lead and the look of the house. Kudos to Paul and many thanks to Derek for revealing this location. Also thanks to Tom for the aerials. This one is incredibly good considering all the trees on the property. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) Finally, I tried to get the best out of the bad 2008 pictures and enhanced/enlarged them. @airtommyI am still awake, let´s wait how @daytona365reacts as he spent nearly as many hours on this b.tchy holy grail of MV locations. Edited February 19 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, Tom said: I found pretty good 3D aerials on the Miami Dade property records BING site which has annual aerials since 2007 (date in the upper left corner of the pics below): It shows that the seating area of Crockett and Caroline looked pretty much like in the episode until 2008 - first few pics. The thick L-shaped hedge behind Crockett (whose purpose I never really understood) was the hedge around the pool whose pool house they magically blacked out by careful camera work. Somewhere in 2012 they remodelled the house strongly and build new buildings where C&C sat down so that the whole terrace was destroyed. See views from south and west below. The view from the east (entrance side) is blocked by trees over all the years. The last pic is how the property looks today from above, with the house in the same building state as 2012 (big remodelling). Wow, what a find, a 20+year search is over and the house was close to Coral Gables locations in this episode and I specifically searched this area last year when I cruised around there with @Paul Veresin his car on Miller Drove and SW60 just a few blocks away These are really nice, great to see that brick back porch on pre-2012 aerials which of course cannot be discerned at all on the 1986 aerials from the usual source. @Tom please link the page where you got them from, need to bookmark into my Miami-Dade toolkit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, Tom said: Also interesting: the house was sold in August 1991 by Richard Lancaster, the owner at the time of filming to the next owner. The 2012 extension was nearly as big as the original house, adding more than 2000 square feet to the original 3000+sq.feet. The sketch in the Miami Dade property database is also below. Yep, that's where I got the square footage numbers for my post too. I saw the sketch also, but they are usually so unhelpful I didn't spend time analyzing it much. I also googled current owners on a chance I could somehow contact them and ask for a tour but nothing useful came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Tom said: @Paul VeresCan you please ask Derek for other episodes, especially Borrasca (carpentry location) and Miami Squeeze (shooting range) and the killsite in Love at first sight? I suspect he is the guy who bought the 111 episode location and production notes boxes from late Robert Hoelscher in 2022! If he is, he can help us finding all 5 missing locations in one go. On my mind. I don't really know the guy and try to "use favors" sparingly. He did say that he acquired all the official location lists, but didn't say when, so might as well be the mysterious buyer. I'll ask him. He also has lots of MV memorabilia which, along with the location sheets, he will be showcasing at the September reunion. If I get any more locations from him before then I will certainly be updating in the respective threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) vor 5 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: On my mind. I don't really know the guy and try to "use favors" sparingly. He did say that he acquired all the official location lists, but didn't say when, so might as well be the mysterious buyer. I'll ask him. He also has lots of MV memorabilia which, along with the location sheets, he will be showcasing at the September reunion. If I get any more locations from him before then I will certainly be updating in the respective threads. Great, then he was the one who bought all boxes of Robert Hoelscher the police advisor of the series. There was no other possibility to get ALL location lists. Everyone else only had production notes from partial episodes but no full set. Hoelscher was a meticulous collector and worked all five seasons for sealing off locations and was present at all production meetings. His son sold the stuff in July 2022 to an anonymous buyer from the Rick Bravo forum after his dad passed away in April 22. You can offer him a free copy of my 40th Anniversary Episode Guide with all locations and episodes dissected in detail as a return favor. I can bring it with me in September for the event (I planned to give Michael Talbott a new copy as the one he has from me is old and earmarked already). You can show him the earlier version I gave you in 2022 when we met as a specimen what he can expect. With Derek´s help we would be complete on all 1000+ locations with 5 only missing at the moment. Edited February 19 by Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 vor 5 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: These are really nice, great to see that brick back porch on pre-2012 aerials which of course cannot be discerned at all on the 1986 aerials from the usual source. @Tom please link the page where you got them from, need to bookmark into my Miami-Dade toolkit. I think you know that link already, as I get there from the Miami Dade Property Appraiser site: https://www.miamidade.gov/Apps/PA/PropertySearch/#/ when you enter a specific address in the search field like "5080 SW 62 Ave" (spare Miami as this is the Miami database only anyway) you get to the main page of each address (pic1), the you click on the upper right hand corner on Map View/View/Angled Aerial View (pic2) and then you can select (pic3) from a long range of years (mostly each year from 2006 onwards - upper left hand side pull down menu) and different views (2D/90 degree angle from above=top and 3D views like west/north/suoth/east. They have integrated Bing to do that which delivers the best and sharpest images, much better than Google Maps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 (edited) vor 7 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: Yep, that's where I got the square footage numbers for my post too. I saw the sketch also, but they are usually so unhelpful I didn't spend time analyzing it much. I also googled current owners on a chance I could somehow contact them and ask for a tour but nothing useful came up. Speaking of an interior tour of the house: there was a virtual tour once on the Redfin site at the time of the last sale 2008 https://www.redfin.com/FL/Miami/5080-SW-62nd-Ave-33155/home/43087716 but the link to it is broken now. Click on the Redfin link, then click on "property facts" further down the page. A new window pops up and there is the tour link. See below. I found it when searching for the architect´s name of the house. I suspect either John Skinner (built the house on Anderson Road with identical door) or Maurice Fatio, but no luck - no one mentioned. Edited February 19 by Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytona365 Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 8 hours ago, Tom said: Finally, I tried to get the best out of the bad 2008 pictures and enhanced/enlarged them. @airtommyI am still awake, let´s wait how @daytona365reacts as he spent nearly as many hours on this b.tchy holy grail of MV locations. well well well, all's well that ends well...how do I react, hum... this needs to sink in a bit first I guess. Right now - and I just saw this whole revelation a few minutes ago - it's a tidal wave of mixed feelings to be honest. First and formeost, I'm really really happy someone finally found this sucker and I congratulate @Paul Veres from the rocky bottom of my heart for being the one. It's a HUGE relief not having to wonder about this anymore and not to constantly feel an urge to steal time from my family life to stare at blurry aerials until my eyes hurt. So sincere thanks for that. On the other hand, I also feel a bit of emptyness from not having found it myself...not for the sake of losing out on the fame and glory in the forum, I totally grant this to you @Paul Veres - and with the effort you put in, you deserve every bit of it - but for not being able to experience the massive kick of excitement I usually had when I found a location myself. There's a lot of energy that I don't get to blow of by dancing on my desk now And...what will I do with my life from now on? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 vor 35 Minuten schrieb daytona365: On the other hand, I also feel a bit of emptyness from not having found it myself...not for the sake of losing out on the fame and glory in the forum, I totally grant this to you @Paul Veres - and with the effort you put in, you deserve every bit of it - but for not being able to experience the massive kick of excitement I usually had when I found a location myself. There's a lot of energy that I don't get to blow of by dancing on my desk now And...what will I do with my life from now on? Amen. Same with me. I greatly thank Paul for saving us finally from going nuts on this, but the real adrenalin kick of finding it is missing when reading it off the location list of Universal. If we really succeed in persuading Derek who seems to have bought all location notes from all episodes from late Robert Hoelscher´s estate in 2022 to read us all the 5 missing locations addresses as well, then the good thing is we have all locations complete in the 40th anniversary year, but we won´t have this great kick of finding a location on Google maps/Street view anymore! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 vor 8 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres: On my mind. I don't really know the guy and try to "use favors" sparingly. He did say that he acquired all the official location lists, but didn't say when, so might as well be the mysterious buyer. I'll ask him. He also has lots of MV memorabilia which, along with the location sheets, he will be showcasing at the September reunion. If I get any more locations from him before then I will certainly be updating in the respective threads. Thanks. Still unknown: Borrasca (carpentry/Art´s store) Miami Squeeze (shooting range) Love at first sight (the kill site with the pink apartment building most likely designed by Gerard Pitt) Heroes of the revolution ("Havana" street part and the theater/room where Gina´s mother and Herzog live) Cool running (domino bar and Rockhouse/Reaggae club, most likely the same location, but no address on location call sheet I posted on the respective thread) minor ? in other eps: the motel scene in Milk Run, Izzy´s place in Lend me an ear and Hooker by Crook and the big box ring at the end of Down for the count. All other 1000+ locations we have found. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 9 hours ago, Tom said: Great, then he was the one who bought all boxes of Robert Hoelscher the police advisor of the series. There was no other possibility to get ALL location lists. Everyone else only had production notes from partial episodes but no full set. Hoelscher was a meticulous collector and worked all five seasons for sealing off locations and was present at all production meetings. His son sold the stuff in July 2022 to an anonymous buyer from the Rick Bravo forum after his dad passed away in April 22. You can offer him a free copy of my 40th Anniversary Episode Guide with all locations and episodes dissected in detail as a return favor. I can bring it with me in September for the event (I planned to give Michael Talbott a new copy as the one he has from me is old and earmarked already). You can show him the earlier version I gave you in 2022 when we met as a specimen what he can expect. With Derek´s help we would be complete on all 1000+ locations with 5 only missing at the moment. I did ask him if he was the one who bought the collection from Bob Hoelscher Jr. in 2022, but he missed answering that I also inquired about 2 more locations (kill site and safe house) and he said that he's not with his archive right now but will check next time when he's there. I assume the guy travels a lot, and if we're indeed talking about those 10 boxes, it makes sense he doesn't have them handy at any given moment - I am given no timeline for that next time, so the best I can do now is just wait until he gets back to me. As a side note, his September event website is up - this is the website and ticket sale organized by him and Rick Bravo: miamiviceevents.com. Recall this is NOT the older website (by Steve Palmer ?) viceevent.com which Derek originally collaborated with. Derek has been the one pulling in the MV cast, organizing the Avalon hotel and MPDP participation, and planning the memorabilia exhibition, etc. So from what I can tell (this is all in my opinion given the Instagram post and my communication with him), Vice Event Inc (viceevent.com) won't be able to pull off anything advertised because Derek was the one writing the ticket descriptions there anyway, and basically took all that with him to the new entity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 8 hours ago, Tom said: I think you know that link already, as I get there from the Miami Dade Property Appraiser site: https://www.miamidade.gov/Apps/PA/PropertySearch/#/ when you enter a specific address in the search field like "5080 SW 62 Ave" (spare Miami as this is the Miami database only anyway) you get to the main page of each address (pic1), the you click on the upper right hand corner on Map View/View/Angled Aerial View (pic2) and then you can select (pic3) from a long range of years (mostly each year from 2006 onwards - upper left hand side pull down menu) and different views (2D/90 degree angle from above=top and 3D views like west/north/suoth/east. They have integrated Bing to do that which delivers the best and sharpest images, much better than Google Maps. Of course, I use that site all the time, but I never noticed the aerial views capability!! Leaning every day, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Veres Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, daytona365 said: well well well, all's well that ends well...how do I react, hum... this needs to sink in a bit first I guess. Right now - and I just saw this whole revelation a few minutes ago - it's a tidal wave of mixed feelings to be honest. First and formeost, I'm really really happy someone finally found this sucker and I congratulate @Paul Veres from the rocky bottom of my heart for being the one. It's a HUGE relief not having to wonder about this anymore and not to constantly feel an urge to steal time from my family life to stare at blurry aerials until my eyes hurt. So sincere thanks for that. On the other hand, I also feel a bit of emptyness from not having found it myself...not for the sake of losing out on the fame and glory in the forum, I totally grant this to you @Paul Veres - and with the effort you put in, you deserve every bit of it - but for not being able to experience the massive kick of excitement I usually had when I found a location myself. There's a lot of energy that I don't get to blow of by dancing on my desk now And...what will I do with my life from now on? Totally get it, this kind of stuff is almost disappointing, that's why I said it was unclimactic and thought the actual address is at that point the least interesting thing given it's just taken off some sheet... That's why when I was working on my huge Pain & Gain project I said that I "cheated" when out of the 87 locations identified 2 I just found in filming permits I got from Miami Beach government... It's just really not the same feeling as when you untangle the mystery yourself through hard work. I'm inclined to say it is especially disappointing when you, upon learning the location, can think that you would have gotten it yourself anyway with just more work (not saying that's the case with the house). But yes, in practical terms, good to put this to rest. And the effort is never wasted - in this MV universe, I believe it's also the journey and not just the destination, as we learn a ton while hunting, like architecture styles, history, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.