The Season 3 Question

[BunMVO]

I think that the main problem with season 3 is that the show lost its charm with the change of style and tone. For example:

• The overall tone of the show was more depressing and somber. Not as colorful, fun and exciting as the first two seasons.
• Not as many "moments". Can you think of anything in season 3 as iconic as "Girls with Guns" in Glades, "Voices" in Calderone's Return, or "In the Air Tonight" in the pilot?
• The iconic fashions that defined the decade faded away into something completely different. Less linen, more silk. Less pastels, more neons, earth toens and dark colors. Imagine if you dressed in the S3 style at a Halloween party, like dark gray and yellow undershirt and that weird billowy jacket style. How many people would immediately recognize that Miami Vice look? Not many.
• Crockett's hair was short and spiky, which looked almost military. I've heard that in 1986, short hair was popular, partly thanks to Top Gun. I didn't like the look, I think it took away from Crockett's wavy, swept hair coolness and made him look more like a '60s dad with a flattop.
• The music changed significantly. The synth-pop started to seriously fade away and the acoustic stuff and hard rock took over mostly. I don't think that fit the show at all.
• The settings just were not emphasized as much. Instead of capitalizing on the ocean culture and tropical paradise feel from the earlier seasons, the show felt more like it was showcasing a sprawling, shady city. With that urban feel, it might as well have been set in New York.
• The tone was way too serious and the humorous elements (e.g. Elvis) were phased out.

Other than that, I think there were some good things. I thought some of the stories were good and some of the darker colors looked good. However, why the hell would you be wearing dark colors, and especially some of Crockett's clothes looked completely man-made, like polyester/rayon/whatever. That would make you burn up in the South Florida heat. Linen and cotton are the way to go. Also, I actually liked the Testarossa better. Rant over.

[RedDragon86]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:21 PM, pmconroy said:

I think that the main problem with season 3 is that the show lost its charm with the change of style and tone. For example:

• The overall tone of the show was more depressing and somber. Not as colorful, fun and exciting as the first two seasons.
• Not as many "moments". Can you think of anything in season 3 as iconic as "Girls with Guns" in Glades, "Voices" in Calderone's Return, or "In the Air Tonight" in the pilot?
• The iconic fashions that defined the decade faded away into something completely different. Less linen, more silk. Less pastels, more neons, earth toens and dark colors. Imagine if you dressed in the S3 style at a Halloween party, like dark gray and yellow undershirt and that weird billowy jacket style. How many people would immediately recognize that Miami Vice look? Not many.
• Crockett's hair was short and spiky, which looked almost military. I've heard that in 1986, short hair was popular, partly thanks to Top Gun. I didn't like the look, I think it took away from Crockett's wavy, swept hair coolness and made him look more like a '60s dad with a flattop.
• The music changed significantly. The synth-pop started to seriously fade away and the acoustic stuff and hard rock took over mostly. I don't think that fit the show at all.
• The settings just were not emphasized as much. Instead of capitalizing on the ocean culture and tropical paradise feel from the earlier seasons, the show felt more like it was showcasing a sprawling, shady city. With that urban feel, it might as well have been set in New York.
• The tone was way too serious and the humorous elements (e.g. Elvis) were phased out.

Other than that, I think there were some good things. I thought some of the stories were good and some of the darker colors looked good. However, why the hell would you be wearing dark colors, and especially some of Crockett's clothes looked completely man-made, like polyester/rayon/whatever. That would make you burn up in the South Florida heat. Linen and cotton are the way to go. Also, I actually liked the Testarossa better. Rant over.

Excellent post 

 

Should have stayed with this look but obviously they wanted something fresh.

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Dadrian]

I discovered Miami Vice in Season 3, so style and music from it will always be great to me, but it’s not my favorite season. It’s unbelievably serious haha. 

[BunMVO]

On 12/5/2018 at 12:06 PM, RedDragon86 said:

Excellent post 

The dark clothes, and new hair styles just didn't fit and the music didn't either, they went from Phil Collins to The Depeche Mode and Yello? no thank you.

When you think of Vice you think of the pastels, in "The Sopranos" Buscemi is dressed with the pastel look, same in "The Big Bang Theory" and "Friends" 

Miami Vice will always be defined by pastels, cool pop music, stylish night drives and brilliant captivating story-lines, Tubbs with his cool New York attitude and Crockett's brooding personality.

Baffles me why anyone would like this look.

Its crazy that they changed this look below, and they thought going dark would be better and giving him Arnie's haircut from "The Terminator" as well, felt like sabotage. 

I hate people who say “This.” but I can’t think of a substitute. Nevertheless, I’m still not saying it.

 

You really seem to get it. Even though the representation of the pastels in modern culture are cringy (not because they’re pastels, that’s awesome, but because people just don’t know how to pull off the style. It pisses me off when someone wears a costume. Also, in “Friends”, I recall a red undershirt. Pardon my French, but what the FUCK?)

Anyway, yeah. Whenever I recommend MV to someone, I only recommend the first two seasons. Not that the last three are that terrible, they’re better than almost all shows today, they’re just not Vice and they’re not worthy of investing time watching.

The impact of the first two seasons on popular culture is far more profound than any little thing or fad S3-5 might have inspired.

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, pmconroy said:

I hate people who say “This.” but I can’t think of a substitute. Nevertheless, I’m still not saying it.

 

You really seem to get it. Even though the representation of the pastels in modern culture are cringy (not because they’re pastels, that’s awesome, but because people just don’t know how to pull off the style. It pisses me off when someone wears a costume. Also, in “Friends”, I recall a red undershirt. Pardon my French, but what the FUCK?)

Anyway, yeah. Whenever I recommend MV to someone, I only recommend the first two seasons. Not that the last three are that terrible, they’re better than almost all shows today, they’re just not Vice and they’re not worthy of investing time watching.

The impact of the first two seasons on popular culture is far more profound than any little thing or fad S3-5 might have inspired.

Yeah they got it a bit wrong in Friends, Sonny would never wear red in 1&2, in "The Big Bang Theory" I think they got it right, the guy on the left (Raj) even has Sonny's hair style 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by RedDragon86

[summer84]

9 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Yeah they got it a bit wrong in Friends, Sonny would never wear red in 1&2, in "The Big Bang Theory" I think they got it right, the guy on the left (Raj) even has Sonny's hair style 

 

 

Sorry, I know I'm going a bit off topic here, but do you watch the TBBT? They have made 12 seasons now, which I also think is the final one. Going back to topic, it's not bad, but when TV show's imitate the Crockett look it's not the same, because it becomes a parody of the look. 

[chum981]

8 hours ago, summer84 said:

Sorry, I know I'm going a bit off topic here, but do you watch the TBBT? They have made 12 seasons now, which I also think is the final one. Going back to topic, it's not bad, but when TV show's imitate the Crockett look it's not the same, because it becomes a parody of the look. 

Yes, it's made into a parody.  I don't like that, but I guess they're still showing it meaning MV is still memorable.

I was just looking at this video today coincidentally!  References from Fresh Prince, Friends and Sopranos:
 

 

 

 

 

 

[chum981]

Here's another reference, to do with MV soundtrack:

 

 

[chum981]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:21 PM, pmconroy said:

I think that the main problem with season 3 is that the show lost its charm with the change of style and tone. For example:

• The overall tone of the show was more depressing and somber. Not as colorful, fun and exciting as the first two seasons.
• Not as many "moments". Can you think of anything in season 3 as iconic as "Girls with Guns" in Glades, "Voices" in Calderone's Return, or "In the Air Tonight" in the pilot?
• The iconic fashions that defined the decade faded away into something completely different. Less linen, more silk. Less pastels, more neons, earth toens and dark colors. Imagine if you dressed in the S3 style at a Halloween party, like dark gray and yellow undershirt and that weird billowy jacket style. How many people would immediately recognize that Miami Vice look? Not many.
• Crockett's hair was short and spiky, which looked almost military. I've heard that in 1986, short hair was popular, partly thanks to Top Gun. I didn't like the look, I think it took away from Crockett's wavy, swept hair coolness and made him look more like a '60s dad with a flattop.
• The music changed significantly. The synth-pop started to seriously fade away and the acoustic stuff and hard rock took over mostly. I don't think that fit the show at all.
• The settings just were not emphasized as much. Instead of capitalizing on the ocean culture and tropical paradise feel from the earlier seasons, the show felt more like it was showcasing a sprawling, shady city. With that urban feel, it might as well have been set in New York.
• The tone was way too serious and the humorous elements (e.g. Elvis) were phased out.

Other than that, I think there were some good things. I thought some of the stories were good and some of the darker colors looked good. However, why the hell would you be wearing dark colors, and especially some of Crockett's clothes looked completely man-made, like polyester/rayon/whatever. That would make you burn up in the South Florida heat. Linen and cotton are the way to go. Also, I actually liked the Testarossa better. Rant over.

They also killed off Zito, which for me really sucked.  It wasn't the same for me after that.

[summer84]

Yes I've seen those video clips. Even though it ridiculises the fashion. It's  nice to see the continued impact Miami Vice has in pop culture to this day. I like it more, when MV is being remembered and mentioned in a positive way and sense. 

[summer84]

Brief clip mentioning the fashion with DJ and PMT. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by summer84

[Tony D.]

10 hours ago, summer84 said:

Brief clip mentioning the fashion with DJ and PMT. 

Thanks for this clip, summer84...…...DJ did some nice singing. 

[Bren10]

Depeche Mode, The Cure, New Order et al. are every bit as important and relevant to the 80s as anybody else.  In some cases more so, considering what they gave birth to and the the fact that every other act is trying to recapture or imitate that sound now.  I love Phil Collins and his cohorts as much as anybody else, but they didn't advance music like those other bands did at that time.

[RedDragon86]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:15 PM, Bren10 said:

Depeche Mode, The Cure, New Order et al. are every bit as important and relevant to the 80s as anybody else.  In some cases more so, considering what they gave birth to and the the fact that every other act is trying to recapture or imitate that sound now.  I love Phil Collins and his cohorts as much as anybody else, but they didn't advance music like those other bands did at that time.

I would referred if S3 stayed with the same look but its still a very good season.

Edited March 16, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Robbie C.]

I take each season on its own merits, and you have to remember the '80s did become a grim and somewhat depressing place by the later part of the decade. To me S3 just reflected the times and was part of the cost MV paid trying to stay current (which is something it had always been praised for being, after all). You also have the departure of Mann and others trying to put their "stamp" on the show. Like Bren 10 I think Vice musically was trying to stay current and relevant. How can you keep your look edgy and current if your soundtrack is ten years old?

The first two seasons are Michael Mann's Vice, although arguably the first season is also Yerkovich's. The other three are Vice growing and changing with the times. But it's all still Vice. To expect anything else would mean you'd have to have a steady show runner involved, which Mann isn't temperamentally inclined to do. You would have needed someone like Shawn Ryan (The Shield) to keep that going. Or maybe they should have just brought Frank Military on. He's done a stellar job keeping NCIS LA focused. Timothy Olyphant did the same thing with Justified, as both producer and lead actor.

[BunMVO]

You’ve got a good point, but were the late ‘80s really that bleak and depressing? I wasn’t alive then I wouldn’t know but it doesn’t seem like everything started being depressing until the ‘90s.

[Bren10]

8 hours ago, pmconroy said:

You’ve got a good point, but were the late ‘80s really that bleak and depressing? I wasn’t alive then I wouldn’t know but it doesn’t seem like everything started being depressing until the ‘90s.

That depends on what you find depressing.  I think it's just a case of confronting subjects in S3 that are depressing by nature.  But yes, those subjects always existed both in the 80s and before and after.  But even in S1 and 2 things are depressing when you think about it deeply.  Drug abuse, lives ruined by prostitution, a seemingly futile drug war etc.  Vice was always about the whack-a-mole nature of these things and swimming upstream trying to do some good in the middle of a bunch of bad.  S3 did not change that imo, just the cosmetic presentation did.  I think people overlook the heaviness of MV's subjects because the show was fun to watch.  That's part of the point that there is a price to pay for all this fun and sun, hence the ominous note at the end of the opening theme song with the dark skyline.  It's the "sinister underneath" that someone like David Lynch likes to explore (also a noirist himself).

Edited March 17, 2019 by Bren10

[Robbie C.]

Things were starting to change by the late '80s, and I think Vice reflected that fairly well. And once you lost Larry the potential for comic relief from Stan and Larry went away as well. As Bren10 points out, the subject matter in Vice was always pretty dark. To me it also tracks the subconscious way Vice showed the cost of working undercover (especially with Crockett). 

[BunMVO]

That’s true, good point about the end of the intro. I think that season 3 made it much more apparent of the dark nature of the content. Season 1 and 2 hid it much better.

[miamijimf]

Don't forget that In finance, Black Monday refers to Monday, October 19, 1987, when stock markets around the world crashed. The crash began in Hong Kong and spread west to Europe, hitting the United States after other markets had already sustained significant declines.  I remember hearing about stock brokers jumping out of windows to their deaths.  A lot of people were affected.  This may have had contributed to the more somber mood of even the entertainment industry in the late 80s.