Today's generation just doesn't get it

[S.FL84]

The reason why any MV reboot would fail regardless of who played SC is the fact life was SOOOO much different then.  It was all about the night and its temptations (cocaine for e.g.) and letting loose all the day's inhibitions.  Now there are no inhibitions.  You have jr high school girls wearing clothes TO FREAKIN' SCHOOL that most 27yr old "women of the world" would never dare wear to a club at midnight on saturday night partying.  Miami and MV was all about that dark forbidden world of excess and self-indulgence.  It was the decadent fantasy world of the 1980's.  Now a elementary school sunday school 8yr old can go online get exposed to graphic pictures of things that were forbidden even in private areas of Studio 54 .

I love when I see pics of C&T, etc., and how flashy and self expressive fashions were then.  Goddam that was one helluva good time to alive and out on the town pretty much anywhere but especially Miami or maybe even NYC.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/the-most-infamous-nightclubs-in-new-yorks-history#

[Ferrariman]

People spend way too much time with their face buried in a cell phone to care much about anything worth while today.   

Just to be clear, I'm not saying a "Miami Vice" reboot would be worth while! 

[jpaul1]

IMHO the reboot can't, and shouldn't look like to the 80s series. as you say it very accurately MV was about drugs, and excess of all kind. and things are not the same nowadays. but personnally i think art is something intemporal. and if you explore the human drama, and thus create a deepness to the series, i think anything is possible. but yes, if the reboot tries to look like the original series it will fail. i totally agree with that. but should we then stop creating, and tempting things. i don't think so. i think we should keep trying new things. and if it fails fine. but we will have tried.

concerning the link you posted. i'm pretty sure such places still exist nowadays. i just watched a documentary recently about River Phoenix death. seems pretty weird things were happening in the Viper room (Depp's Club)

Edited November 29, 2018 by jpm1

[S.FL84]

MV was exactly what Bradon Tartifkoff said he wanted - "MTV cops". 

https://tv.avclub.com/the-mtv-cops-of-miami-vice-gave-television-a-facelift-1798272156

There was nothing like MV before on TV ever.  MV hit the public like an atomic bomb and for the first two seasons the public was mesmorized by a world they had only dreamed even existed.  Now that world exists everywhere.  Then it was cool to snort a line of coke, like a glass of Cristol champagne.  Now its a needle of heroin behind a dumpster or in an abandoned building.  Funny thing, in the movie Tony Rome it was even shown there were alot of trashy loser junkies looking for a "needle-full". 

[S.FL84]

https://tv.avclub.com/the-mtv-cops-of-miami-vice-gave-television-a-facelift-1798272156

[S.FL84]

The fabulous 1980's were all about classily, in style, fashionably losing of the innocence of the 60's & 70's of Reagan's time and no one escorted us into and through that world better than C&T.

[chum981]

Michael Mann tried to make it contemporary with his movie - most say it didn't work.  Maybe people just expected different things.  I think some wanted nostalgia.  Mann was keen not to redo the 80s, but to reinvent to a modern day.

[Bren10]

Yes,  Miami Vice summarized the zeitgeist of the 80s.  So what is the zeitgeist of the 2010s or 2000s?  Is that something Diesel can encompass or even figure out?  I have my doubts.  There are several problems here,  but one of them is that the past two decades don't really have an identity.  There's been a million modeen cop shows now that try to be hip but just don't hold interest.  I also don't want to watch a small screen version of Diesel's "cool" actilon movies, which I fear a reboot might be.   There's just not as much happening now pop-culturally for a MV reboot to sink its teeth into.  Technology has flattened everything out and homogenized us culturally.  There really isn't anything new or revealing for an audience here.  Once again, I think a reboot will wind up just being another modern cop show trying to be flashy.  All these reboots only go to show Hollywood's creative bankruptcy.

[Marco Falcone]

I agree that any reboot needs to be made in “modern time.”  

But then that makes me think it really can’t be “Miami Vice.”

 As has been stated here many times; Miami Vice is an incredible, visceral, living “snapshot” of that specific decade now 30+ plus years in the past.  It captured the fashion, the music, the good, the bad...  The entire history of a large part of the American “Me Decade” lifestyle, in real time and broadcast it as it was happening.

And the setting was like no other at that time, and one that doesn’t really exist the same way today.  During that time, Miami was a broken tropical paradise teetering on a razor’s edge, with a Renaissance on one side and collapse and destruction on the other.  The explosion of incredible (ill-begotten) wealth creating literal “castles in the sand” right next to serious poverty.  

It was also a time and place where so much of this wealth was being achieved by repressed and disenfranchised minorities who lived in that poverty.  And who brought much of their cultural heritage (as expressed by the colors and music and fashions of tropical Central America and the Caribbean) and much of their anger at their past (horrible violence as learned in jungle warfare and gang warfare in favelas and barrios) to their expressions of this near-instant wealth.  Miami was also a brutally honest mirror that forced the average American to look at the politics they were a part of in the moment, since the violence and skill at arms that was now being turned loose on the streets of an American city were taught to the perpetrators by our own government.  The closest thing to it (music, fashion, vice, violence, and instant wealth) would likely be Chicago of the 1920’s and ‘30’s.  But unlike Chicago of the Depression, the modern technology of the 1980’s allowed it to be documented and shown on our 25-inch TV’s in beautiful color as it was actually happening.

Add the incredible talent of Michael Mann and his team who brought ALL of this together in a such fearless and cohesive manner for the first time on television; with wonderful storytelling, fantastic characters, amazing design, and cinematography as good as any cinema blockbuster.  

I think it was also the first time in TV history where a show was timed perfectly with the growing prosperity of the general population, the explosion of retail availability, and a cultural willingness to show off that prosperity without guilt.  Fans could go the mall, or their Porsche or Mercedes dealership, and buy whatever they needed to live out their sartorial fantasies as related to the show.

Entertainment was delivered in such a different way in the 80’s.  There was no instant access to every movie and TV show ever made, let alone everything every self-styled “social media influencer” throws up on the internet.  Everyone watched essentially the same TV as it happened, with excitement and anticipation for what was coming the next week.  And without the internet giving away every spoiler, every production method, every actors’ dirty secrets, etc. 

Sometimes I also think because Miami Vice was done so well and was so reflective of the moment of its existence; that for all the flash and “MTV” it was also dark and violent and was showing a pretty dirty slice of what was happening in an American city, partially as a result of American foreign policy; that it ended up making some of the audience turn away from it, from their own feeling of guilt and culpability.   (Much like I felt about watching “The Wire” after a few seasons.)

I don’t think any other show has ever done all of this so well.

And I don’t know that a TV show will ever exist in a time like that again; where it can encompass, once a week in +/-50 minutes, the entire zeitgeist of a decade.

 
 

[Marco Falcone]

Bren10:   HA!  I was typing away on my response as you were typing yours.  I end with that “Z” word, post it, and see your use of same word.

Your post is a perfect statement of a big part of what I was trying to say:  The total lack of a definitive identity in the decades since.

Well said, Sir.  Well said.

[Tony D.]

In Miami Vice, Crockett & Tubbs took us all into the sleazy world of drug dealers, & gangsters in the streets of Miami. What made the show so great was how cool & stylish these undercover cops were. The story lines and wisecracks kept our interest and we enjoyed the characters like, Stan & Larry & Izzy & Noogie. 

I doubt there will ever be a show as lasting ( 34 yrs. ) as Miami Vice!       We're still analyzing  & writing about it!

Edited November 30, 2018 by Tony D.

[BunMVO]

I am part of the generation you're talking about, and I completely agree.

It's impossible for this generation to "get it", because instead of quality entertainment like Vice, everyone is too busy with "Netflix and chill (of some crap original Netflix series)", bucking for likes, follows, popularity, and general affirmation on social media, documenting every second of their lives on their phones and never living in the moment, and being unbelievably negative, claiming they want to die (whether humor-intended or not), bashing some politician, bla bla bla. You get it.

Today's generation is weird. Everyone is so quick to brag about their self-diagnosed mental illnesses and concerned with the dopamine hit they get from social-media popularity. (For the record, I think that mental illness is definitely something that is good to address, especially with the constant mass shootings and whatnot, but it looks bad for those who actually suffer from it.) That's one of the reasons there could be no Vice today. Today has no "zeitgeist". Fashion has remained almost static since the turn of the decade. The same music styles have been run into the ground and oversaturated. All the revolutionary elements of Miami Vice like the usage of pop music and the beautiful colors have been deeply ingrained into entertainment. Not a bad legacy to leave, but still one that is overlooked too often.

The 2010s have a zeitgeist. A shitty one. No one is going to look back at this decade and wish they could witness the years that humanity became smartphone-addicted.

Also, what? The "2010s"? It even sounds weird. I think almost no one really refers to it. We're just kind of existing in the years after the 20th century at this point.

I'm 21, and I was born in a pretty rough time. Even when I was born, Miami Vice had been scoffed by so many going into the '90s. That was when pastels became earth tones again, Phil Collins became Curt Kobain, and unbridled optimism became a general sense of depression. It has not changed since, especially after 9/11.

We live in a different world from that of the 1980s. I never lived it, but I can tell that much.

[Bren10]

pmconroy, very well stated.  Much respect to you.   It's refreshing to see one from your time actually acknowledge the issues.  My high school years were spent in the 90s and I can tell you I thought that was a pretty crappy time too.  Slightly better than the 2000s but crappier than the 80s certainly.

[BunMVO]

51 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

pmconroy, very well stated.  Much respect to you.   It's refreshing to see one from your time actually acknowledge the issues.  My high school years were spent in the 90s and I can tell you I thought that was a pretty crappy time too.  Slightly better than the 2000s but crappier than the 80s certainly.

Well thank you! I don't wear it on my sleeve because I'm not trying to be that "le wrong generation" guy, but I think my insight as a younger guy is much needed to some of you old-timers

[Marco Falcone]

PMConroy:  Thank you for sharing your perspective, and for the eloquence in which you did so.  

I graduated high school in the mid 80’s and watched MV in real time, so I’m definetely one of the “old-timers.”   You are right about the need for your insight, especially when it is honest and true.

[jpaul1]

well i really don't get that point of view that tend to say the 80s were the only greatest era of history, and MV is the messiah. i'm reducing a little bit, but i was a kid in the 80s, i was very lucky to be able to go to Miami in that era for holidays. and for me if MV is clearly one of the greatest TV shows ever, it's all but because it invented things. i may shock few of you out there, but i'm sorry i sincerely think this is the truth. i mean when i look back at Miami vice what did it invented. for me except Crockett clothing it didn't invented much more. let's me develop it a bit

- Miami vice was about wealthy narcos. this was there before MV

- MV was featuring a cool Testarossa. these great cars already existed

- MV was about flashy colors, and mind free people. this existed before MV

- MV was about cool music. this was there before

i just don't get that way of thinking that tend to say that MV made 80s. for me it's definitely the opposite. MV was a child of the 80s

the world has changed, and i'd say thank God. but IMHO it hasn't turned into a complete garbage neither. lot of good things happened nowadays too. ecology, animal welfare. and IMO people nowadays are much more caring, and much less selfish than in 80s. so IMO i definitely think something good can be done with the series nowadays, since you keep in mind it's a new era, and new people, and it WON'T LOOK LIKE TO THE 80s SERIES. but i think there are lot of ways to explore for making great plot/stories. i didn't think about it seriously, but like that, you could explore human drama in mexican cartels controlled areas (and immigration problems), story of old farc not being forgiven in their country, police workload.. i'm sure that if you think a bit to it, you can find more

[squeezem3]

Of course people tend to draw the past (mostly when they were young) in the brightest colors due to nostalgic emotions. They connect these moments, or in this case a whole decade, with great memories of experiences they made during this time. So in fact, they glorify the past instead of making the most out of the moment that is just happening. 

But that is just one part of the truth. The 80s are fascinating to many young people people too, more than any other decade. Which remarkable things are or will be left from the 00s or our current decade?

The 80s had a very special spirit. Because of the things you mentioned like music, movies, fashion, or TV shows such as MV. But beside that the whole lifestyle back then seemed to be more laid back than nowadays. Cool dudes were allowed to be macho, and didn't get blame for sexism when calling a hot girl hot. In my perception a lot of restrictions, questionable rules, and unnecessary political correctness came along with the positive things like animal welfare,or the awareness of environmental protection during the past 20-25 years. And people miss this kind of freedom. 

[jpaul1]

if i had to choose between the 2 eras, personnally i'd pick up nowadays era without hesitating. life is much less hard than in the 80s. in the 80s there were no social aids. it was walk or die. and probably one of the reason why people were more selfish, and less caring back then. actually i see no restriction nowadays compared to the 80s. if women feel bad about some men behaviors then it's up to them to tell it, so can we fix this together. but feminist movements in their most extreme form never impressed me personnally. feminist movements made me think a bit more, but they never hindered me

[Mr. Calderon]

MV wouldnt work? Maybe. Maybeeee.. But...i cant wait to throw some knives on it. But im still curious with the result. Again, Fastlane was a great MV clone. Unhopeffully it was too expensive to a new season.

[Dadrian]

2 hours ago, Mr. Calderon said:

Maybe. Maybeeee..

Tubbs in the pilot, or Marcel in “One Way Ticket”

Wait, wrong thread   

[S.FL84]

MV worked because of how innovative it was.  < That was due to the fact that NO other prime time show glamorized what was really going on in the streets, on MTV, in movies, in latin america, in Miami.  Again, it was exactly what Brandon Tartikoff asked for "MTV cops".  A fantasy brought to life.  It was what everyone hoped that world really was like but wasn't.  It perfectly encapsulated a world everyone wished they could be part of and it worked great.  It broke boundaries and wouldn't work today because there are no boundaries, socially speaking.  It, in a way, was the end of alot of innocence and god was it incredibly great losing it one episode of MV at a time for the first 2 seasons.  Then it was dead.  Then it was all about THAT night and no one cared about tomorrow.  Now it is tomorrow and no one cares what you did last night.  A reboot w/out the original cast reuniting one last time would fail miserably.

The bottom line IS there was nothing like MV before and there'll never be another show like it again.  I am just SOOOOO glad to have lived it thru my rabbit eared TV and to have this great forum to discuss it w/ people who can relate to my POV and get where I'm coming from.  < Thats why it'd be so great for all of us to get together in Miami visiting MV locations.

[S.FL84]

It really would cost THAT much to have a MV Online get together down in Fort Lauderdale this summer.  A RT ticket wouldn't cost much more than $200 IF we all together and booked it as a charter group, the same w/ a hotel and a bus.  The DAYS INN in N. Miami Beach is like $100/nt for a double.  For less than $500/ea. it would be easy to have our own convention and visit the most famous MV locations. 

[S.FL84]

A reboot wouldn't work primarily because everyone thinks because of Google they know something about everything and they don't know sh#@!  Thats what made MV so great.  It wasn't pretend in the sense that it was like a routine.  Everything was new.  New music, new clothes, new cars, new boats, new EVERYTHING.  Now everything is old and dead.

[jpaul1]

this is an awesome idea S.FL84. but i think a spent in Miami would cost much more that 500. even if group booking. of course you can book low cost hotels, but i heard some are pretty nasty

[S.FL84]

DAYS INN in north beach is literally just around the corner from where THE MAZE was filmed.  Staying in a moderate priced hotel would be exactly how Tubbs stayed in the pilot ep..

 

*edit - The DAYS INN is now closed.  No surprise.

Edited December 1, 2018 by S.FL84