What changes would you have made from Season 3 on?

[BunMVO]

Just to play the devil's advocate, let's say you're Dick Wolf, it's 1986, and you're coming up with ideas to keep Miami Vice fresh, relevant, hip and with the times. What changes, if you had to, would you have made to the:

• Storyline
• Music/soundtrack
• Clothing style
• Scenery
• Anything else?

For me, I know that I would keep it as a more even balance between seriousness and playfulness. I would have had more humor in it, and not make every episode deathly serious. Elvis would have remained part of the show as comic relief. I think that the introduction of neons would have been a welcome change, but also keeping the pastels. I would include many of the geometric patterns you see in many Versace-esque clothing from the time. Fits would have remained well-fitted, but also somewhat loose and casual and unstructured. I think the incorporation of black and some darker grays worked well at times. The black Wayfarers would be good too, as well as some of the looks of S4/5. Crockett's hair would be longer and not the short, spiky look. It would change from a S2 look to an S4 look throughout the season, kind of as it did in S2. The Testarossa was a welcome change, I would have kept that (fight me). Scenery would be more of a brighter, sunnier Miami look like it was before, but including some neo-noir night backdrops as well. Absolutely no earth tones, and that includes the greens and mustard yellows we see in Irish Eyes and so forth. The casting would have remained pretty much the same, and I think the killing off of Zito was a good dramatic twist. As for music, I would keep Jan Hammer of course, maybe Giorgio Moroder could have even helped collaborate. The music would have stayed as mostly pop fare, none of that heavy rock stuff that made its way in. However, some of the darker pop would be fitting, such as the Peter Gabriel songs from So. 

I think that concludes my ideas for now. Interesting thought experiment. Anyone?

[Robbie C.]

First off, you'd have to get rid of Dick Wolf. If you look at all his other franchise shows, they're notable for their stagnant nature when it comes to things.

Personally I like the rock addition (and if you want to be fresh with the times, rock was big in the mid to late 1980s). Pop can only do so much, and you need to expand the music horizons to fit the mood. My biggest thing would have been expanding the stories to include more characters. Killing Zito was only necessary because they'd cut John's parts back so much he wanted out. With good writing, which Vice sadly lacked at critical times, they could have broadened the focus beyond Crockett and survived. I would have gone for stronger writing and invested more in story arcs instead of the episodic focus. It's easier to blend characters in when you're doing arcing, overlapping story lines if you've got good writers and a focused show runner, and Vice could have done that fairly easily. Imagine the Calderone plot running over an entire season, with other plots involving other characters coming in and out during the arc. If Calderone wanted to get Castillo out of the picture, for example, he could have clued in some of Castillo's old enemies in to his location, or by the same token one of Castillo's enemies could have steered Calderone his way. Or maybe the Feds have gotten involved with Calderone and they want to keep the Vice squad busy elsewhere because they're gotten too good.

Vice was always about more than colors in my view. The visuals were important, but it's too easy to focus on them and miss what was going on underneath. Vice took on some important subjects (sometimes in a clumsy way, but still...) that no one else touched. Imagine an arc where, if Larry still dies, Stan starts seriously contemplating suicide. Well before its time, but something Vice could have clearly taken on. What happens if Gina gets tired of waiting for Crockett and transfers out? That would have been a solid dramatic twist, and one no one would have expected. But to balance that I would have kept elements like Elvis and the duo of Izzy and Noogie. Don't like 'em? They provide both relief and show how annoying CIs can be. They'd also be perfect vehicles to different plot lines (could Phil the Shill have happened without Izzy? Doubtful).

So I would have kept the rock and some of the dark elements. No question. You'd see more three and four episode story arcs, balanced with some comic moments and actual character development for the entire cast. Tubbs would have come into the spotlight more. Why? Again, he adds different plot elements (there's more to him than Valerie).

[vicegirl85]

Love this topic and hopefully will have something to say about it tonight, i.e. after work!

[Daytona74]

What killed Miami Vice in season 3 was both the earthtones and the somber mood that eschewed any kind of casual display of 80s materialistic hedonism like in S1 and S2, as we all know. That wasn't what people had grown to like the previous two seasons. And you had different personnel working on the episodes than before, who had a different focus with regards to what kind of show they wanted to make and what kind of stories they wanted to tell. Michael Mann had the magic touch, and with him gone from season 3, Vice was a different show made by different people. And then when you had Dick Wolf saying in an interview a few years ago that the "Alien episode" was his favorite, it goes a long way explaining where they went wrong. Michael Mann wasn't just the show runner previously in S1 and S2, he WAS the show. Vice was a success because it was one person's vision, who ran a tight ship and micro managed everything from the T shirts Don wore under his blazers to the color and make of parked cars in a scene backdrop. So the show was never going to be as good as it was under Michael Mann, even if they had followed his formula to a T after his departure.

That said, for one thing they should have kept the lighter color shades, even if you accept that mainstream fashion had moved on slightly by 1986-87 as I seem to remember. Nothing wrong with slipping on a dark blazer, as long as you would have kept the gentle pastels of Ocean Drive in the backgrounds. And they should have kept the healthy mix of gritty neo noir police drama and oddball comedy. They had a few silly episodes in seasons 3 to 5 where they tried to recreate the hilarity of Cool Runnin' and/or Made For Each Other, but they just didn't get it right.

Also, I was largely not a fan of the style of music they brought on in season 3. That, too, was way too dark.And then when they reverted to pastels and more lighter music in S4 and S5, they again just didn't get the selection of songs right anymore. Not to mention that due to budget cuts, they rarely featured the big contemporary Billboard hits anymore.

You have to accept though that Jan Hammer was burned out by season 3. The kind of work he did for the show, he was never going to be able to keep up in the long run at that kind of pace. And I guess that goes for many elements of the show, which had been firing on all cylinders in a way that probably just wore everybody out.

I can't say I ever liked the Testarossa. Not as a car as such, and not as a prop on Miami Vice. They should have brought on another convertible of some description, in Miami's climate, no less. The Testarossa may be a very wide car as such (I saw one once at a gas station here), but the inside of  it always looked a bit claustrophobic on the show. I know Enzo Ferrari himself was determined to plug his new flagship, but a targa like the 328 GTS which was also newly in production at the time, although largely a revamp of Magnum's 308, would have been a better choice. There were even black ones with tan leather. The Testarossa was just always a bit too ostentatious even for two local pretend-drug dealers. The Daytona was sleek and nimble, it was a stunning car, but also just that little bit inconspicuous in all the right ways. Just as a 328 could have been.

[BunMVO]

9 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

First off, you'd have to get rid of Dick Wolf. If you look at all his other franchise shows, they're notable for their stagnant nature when it comes to things.

Personally I like the rock addition (and if you want to be fresh with the times, rock was big in the mid to late 1980s). Pop can only do so much, and you need to expand the music horizons to fit the mood. My biggest thing would have been expanding the stories to include more characters. Killing Zito was only necessary because they'd cut John's parts back so much he wanted out. With good writing, which Vice sadly lacked at critical times, they could have broadened the focus beyond Crockett and survived. I would have gone for stronger writing and invested more in story arcs instead of the episodic focus. It's easier to blend characters in when you're doing arcing, overlapping story lines if you've got good writers and a focused show runner, and Vice could have done that fairly easily. Imagine the Calderone plot running over an entire season, with other plots involving other characters coming in and out during the arc. If Calderone wanted to get Castillo out of the picture, for example, he could have clued in some of Castillo's old enemies in to his location, or by the same token one of Castillo's enemies could have steered Calderone his way. Or maybe the Feds have gotten involved with Calderone and they want to keep the Vice squad busy elsewhere because they're gotten too good.

Vice was always about more than colors in my view. The visuals were important, but it's too easy to focus on them and miss what was going on underneath. Vice took on some important subjects (sometimes in a clumsy way, but still...) that no one else touched. Imagine an arc where, if Larry still dies, Stan starts seriously contemplating suicide. Well before its time, but something Vice could have clearly taken on. What happens if Gina gets tired of waiting for Crockett and transfers out? That would have been a solid dramatic twist, and one no one would have expected. But to balance that I would have kept elements like Elvis and the duo of Izzy and Noogie. Don't like 'em? They provide both relief and show how annoying CIs can be. They'd also be perfect vehicles to different plot lines (could Phil the Shill have happened without Izzy? Doubtful).

So I would have kept the rock and some of the dark elements. No question. You'd see more three and four episode story arcs, balanced with some comic moments and actual character development for the entire cast. Tubbs would have come into the spotlight more. Why? Again, he adds different plot elements (there's more to him than Valerie).

I think you’re right. Season 3 had some good episodes, but a shift to focus on the story arcs would have been good. Since the episodic thing had faded and the whole mood seemed to be no longer able to be captured, it would have been a good direction to go with the series. I think, of course, more involvement with the whole cast, including Gina, Trudy, Larry and Stan would have also been a welcome change. Even before it officially became the Don Johnson show, it did focus a bit too much on the star. Vice could have tackled some serious subjects in a bleak way without being as serious and lifeless as it felt in that season.

[RedDragon86]

I have came around to appreciate season 3, the majority of the episodes are excellent.

I know its cosmetic but they should have kept Sonny's hair the same and keep the pastels.

Season 3 isn't the same as Mann's Vice but even so its a top season, we should be grateful that Wolf wasn't in full  control and season 3 started like 4.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Robbie C.]

51 minutes ago, pmconroy said:

I think you’re right. Season 3 had some good episodes, but a shift to focus on the story arcs would have been good. Since the episodic thing had faded and the whole mood seemed to be no longer able to be captured, it would have been a good direction to go with the series. I think, of course, more involvement with the whole cast, including Gina, Trudy, Larry and Stan would have also been a welcome change. Even before it officially became the Don Johnson show, it did focus a bit too much on the star. Vice could have tackled some serious subjects in a bleak way without being as serious and lifeless as it felt in that season.

I think some of those things ended up bleak because they were starting to hollow out the characters. Let's face it: characters have never been a strength of Dick Wolf. And I would say the only season that was fully Mann's was season 2. There were lingering Yerkovich influences (especially with the characters) in season 1. Don't get me wrong; the visuals were all Mann in season 1, but by season 2 he'd taken total control. That, in my view, was a mixed blessing, because it kept other characters from really being developed and kept the show's focus firmly episodic (which I don't think fully suited what they were trying to do with Vice...even Mann abandoned that with Crime Story). And Dick Wolf has never been good (again in my view) at story arcs.

[Bren10]

Some scattershot thoughts since this has been gone into alot: The arc thing could have worked, but not all season, long I don't think. MV isn't Wiseguy, after all. Maybe several within a season. A good start for me would've been Tubbs' quest to find his son, and maybe have a better showdown with Orlando. I have often defended S3 and still think it's good. Mann himself often used greens in his work, just look at Manhunter and parts of Thief, and obviously Last of the Mohicans. While he does shun earth tones, his major concern is the color red, which S3 still didn't really have much of. I think the humor quotient in the last 3 seasons was fine. I didn't need more of it. Oftentimes I found myself just tolerating Izzy, not actually enjoying him. Remember this is a show mostly about life and death situations and lives left destroyed by criminal elements. I don't need a lot of ha-ha to go along with that. Too much of that makes it uneven, unrealistic, and cheapens the impact, for me at least. I have no problems with the music either. I'm a fan of stuff like that, and so is Mann for that matter. I 'm talking about the early alternative stuff like The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, New Order etc. No issues with hard rock either. I think MV should represent all genres. Remember the soundtrack had Grandmaster Melle Mel on it. And again, Don Johnson was the star because he was a star and had starpower. He had found the role he was meant to play after several failed pilots. That's how it works. An actor finds their breakthrough role and they ride that wave. And if the show is smart it rides it with them and enhances their star. There was more room for supporting players' development but the show has to remember what (or who) brought them to the dance.  I'll tell you this, if they would've replaced DJ with Mark Harmon (ugh) like they were talking about, I would've been done with the show, period. I don't care how much they would've "developed" Tubbs, Gina etc. 

A good questilon if we're redoing S3-S5 is would we still include the Caitlyn/Burnett arc, or simply not do any of that? I know opinions are very split.

[vicegirl85]

3 hours ago, Bren10 said:

(snipped)The arc thing could have worked, but not all season, long I don't think. MV isn't Wiseguy, after all. Maybe several within a season. A good start for me would've been Tubbs' quest to find his son, and maybe have a better showdown with Orlando. I have often defended S3 and still think it's good. Mann himself often used greens in his work, just look at Manhunter and parts of Thief, and obviously Last of the Mohicans. While he does shun earth tones, his major concern is the color red, which S3 still didn't really have much of. I think the humor quotient in the last 3 seasons was fine. I didn't need more of it. Oftentimes I found myself just tolerating Izzy, not actually enjoying him. Remember this is a show mostly about life and death situations and lives left destroyed by criminal elements. I don't need a lot of ha-ha to go along with that. Too much of that makes it uneven, unrealistic, and cheapens the impact, for me at least. I have no problems with the music either. I'm a fan of stuff like that, and so is Mann for that matter. I 'm talking about the early alternative stuff like The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, New Order etc. No issues with hard rock either. I think MV should represent all genres. Remember the soundtrack had Grandmaster Melle Mel on it. And again, Don Johnson was the star because he was a star and had starpower. He had found the role he was meant to play after several failed pilots. That's how it works. An actor finds their breakthrough role and they ride that wave. And if the show is smart it rides it with them and enhances their star. There was more room for supporting players' development but the show has to remember what (or who) brought them to the dance.  I'll tell you this, if they would've replaced DJ with Mark Harmon (ugh) like they were talking about, I would've been done with the show, period. I don't care how much they would've "developed" Tubbs, Gina etc. 

A good questilon if we're redoing S3-S5 is would we still include the Caitlyn/Burnett arc, or simply not do any of that? I know opinions are very split.

I agree that a season-long arc would not have been successful, especially for the time.  Several multi-episode arcs (with 1-2 storylines resolved each week) could have been very workable and I would have watched them for sure.   I think 2-4 story arcs over the course of a season (even interspersed with a few standalone eps) would have potentially left room to develop some of the other characters more, while keeping the focus on the main character of Sonny Crockett.  I didn't mind Izzy but don't really feel more humor was needed.  If they had shown some of the really dark humor that might be realistic, it could have offended a lot of viewers, and made them less likely to tune in every week.  Really dark stuff could be successful now, IMO, but not on a broadcast network in the 80s. 

I'd like to have seen that a team of writers (no more than 4) and 1-2 directors had gotten together and really plotted out each season (which I never saw any evidence this happened), the uneven quality of many eps could have been improved, as well as offering more consistency, continuity and resolution of some of the situations that were brought up and then dropped (such as Tubbs' son or Switek's gambling).

I didn't mind the style of S3 and I liked many of the episodes.  Did not care for the styles or look of S4-5 (although I can think of reasons for them which satisfy me).  Agree with many here that the style/colors/music were integral pieces of the show, but those are less important to me than the character development.  I was satisfied with the music, but I would have liked it better if Jan Hammer had stayed.  Am sure there was someone in charge of music selection, but less sure if the music person was working in tandem with the writers.

Bren 10, you ask about the Caitlin/Burnett arc.  While I felt the Caitlin relationship--and especially the wedding--was rushed and unsatisfying, it could have really worked if the writers/directors had put the amount of thought into it that many here have, and if it had played out over a 2-episode arc.  Crockett's desperate search for a real relationship with a real woman who wasn't a criminal could have been compelling, but as portrayed, it wasn't.  Or at least, it was compelling in just a couple of spots.  That desperation would also have made the Burnett/amnesia more believable for some as well (IMO).  Without the Caitlin story, the Burnett arc makes a lot less sense, and I did like it as a psychological reaction to Sonny's great loss.  Making Caitlin a singer was something that worked, and I didn't have a problem with Sheena Easton's acting (but after all I liked the acting of the girl who played Dorothy in Buddies, and Bill Russell, so...) 

In an ideal world, I would like to have seen resolution of Switek's gambling problem (and the pressure he was getting from the musclemen for the mob); would like for Tubbs to have found out about his son; would like for Gina to have found Mr. Right.  Trudy was really pushed to the background and this was disappointing, but I was never super-invested in her and aside from The Dutch Oven, didn't feel her character was ever really supported or given anything interesting to do.  Castillo, I felt, did get some good character focus and some resolution.  Zito--I was sad that John Diehl left the show (although I certainly can't blame him) and he did get a good send-off double episode.  I would have liked to see Castillo take on a lone-wolf mission of bringing Sonny and Rico back to Miami, because I do believe he could have done it.  But Sonny and Rico were so burned out that the ending of Freefall seemed fitting (although  I think the episode itself had room for improvement).

 

[Robbie C.]

Interweaving arcs are a mark of good television. They don't simply follow one story over three episodes or whatever...you see them come up again after skipping a show or two. You run two or three of those together with some episodic elements and you get deep television. Maybe it was a bit much for Vice to aspire to. I don't know. Maybe the model would never have lent itself to anything more than it was: a simple star vehicle that from time to time hit some deeper elements. Again, I don't know. The lingering sadness for me with Vice is that fact that it could have done more but didn't.

[Bren10]

Yeah, honestly I don't think Vice was built for that kind of model. It was more to showcase different topics and themes in an almost disposable fashion. Ironically it became arc-like most when it concerned character as opposed to plot heavy topics.

[Bren10]

It could be argued that because of Mann, MV was far more ambitious than it was ever meant to be, bringing feature film quality and elements to television. As well as deeper research which Mann is a stickler for.

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Robbie C. said:

Interweaving arcs are a mark of good television. They don't simply follow one story over three episodes or whatever...you see them come up again after skipping a show or two. You run two or three of those together with some episodic elements and you get deep television. Maybe it was a bit much for Vice to aspire to. I don't know. Maybe the model would never have lent itself to anything more than it was: a simple star vehicle that from time to time hit some deeper elements. Again, I don't know. The lingering sadness for me with Vice is that fact that it could have done more but didn't.

I agree that interweaving arcs are a mark of good television; I've always liked those.  There were some 80s shows that relied on interweaving arcs, such as St. Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues, that were not "soaps" (like Dallas, Dynasty, etc.).  I feel like more drama-type TV is oriented to arc-based storytelling today.  But at the time, there was a certain amount of flak from viewers and critics who stated they didn't like the arc-style shows because one could get "lost" if an episode was missed. 

I don't see MV as purely a "star vehicle" by original intention.  For me, it moved in that direction in response to viewers' reaction to DJ as Crockett.  If not for that, it may  have taken a more ensemble-oriented direction.  On the other hand, I also watched Crime Story and Last of the Mohicans is a favorite of my husband's.  Both are quite focused on their lead character, so it may be a characteristic of Mann's work to be that way.

I also felt there were missed opportunities, which makes me sad.  It's frustrating to watch weaker episodes and imagine the unrealized potential.  But at the end of the day, MV was a unique piece of television in its style and storytelling, that touched some topics and themes that hadn't been explored before.  At least partly because of MV,  both the storytelling and visual style of TV drama are different today, and that's not a bad legacy.

[Bren10]

Yes it is Mann's m.o. to have a signature protagonist and antagonist. Crime Story exemplifies this as well as his attempt to make an actual serialized/arc oriented show which he knew Vice wasn't. But that philosophy is nothing new to storytelling. I wonder if people would complain less if the show had been called "Crockett" or "The Crockett Files" or something in the vein of Mike Hammer or Hunter.

[Daytona74]

Back on the Testarossa, it's kind of a shame that the 348 only came out in 1989, and the spyder as pictured below in 1993. Being the follow-up model to the 328, it offered similar styling to the Testa, but with more compact measurements and pared back rear wings and side strakes:

 

Less ostentatious, more sleek.

This totally could have worked as a replacement for the Daytona. Or maybe if they had continued the show into the 90s,  they eventually could have swapped out the Testarossa for this car, which was made until 1995.

http://bay2car.com/1995-FERRARI-348-SPIDER-LHD-NERO-BLACK-WITH-TAN-INTERIOR-171955783915/car80864

[Robbie C.]

7 hours ago, Bren10 said:

Yes it is Mann's m.o. to have a signature protagonist and antagonist. Crime Story exemplifies this as well as his attempt to make an actual serialized/arc oriented show which he knew Vice wasn't. But that philosophy is nothing new to storytelling. I wonder if people would complain less if the show had been called "Crockett" or "The Crockett Files" or something in the vein of Mike Hammer or Hunter.

I think it has more to do with stocking the show with compelling characters and then never using them. And I still think Mann's biggest weakness is characters. He can do one or possibly two, but after that it gets very thin. I don't know that Mann 'knew' Vice wasn't an arc show...I think it's more than by the time he figured out he wanted to do one he was tired of Vice (his famous limited attention span for projects) and decided he'd move on. Given Yerkovich's "Hill Street Blues" experience he might have originally thought of Vice as a sort of arc show, which would explain the wider stock of characters (which is unusual for a strictly episodic model). So you had that unresolved creative focus split from the beginning.

Vice's biggest failing here was trying to cram what should have been two or three shows (a limited arc) into one disappointing episode. How many times have people complained that X episode feels too short or rushed? If was running Vice from season 3 on, that would have been my biggest change. Give those stories the room they need.

Vice's biggest legacy is most likely visual and audio, which does tend to obscure the way it might have shifted TV cop shows. In fact, reviews of groundbreaking shows the The Shield don't even mention Vice: Hill Street Blues and Homicide are more likely to come up, followed by NYPD Blue.

[vicegirl85]

I feel your frustration with the under-utilization of the secondary characters!  And perhaps you're right about Mann and his characterization work.

Difficult at this distance in time (and also with my very limited familiarity with the show-runners and writers) to really know how those decisions were reached (e.g. episodic vs serialized vs arcs).  I do know that TV was very different in the era of the Big Three networks, commercial-supported broadcasting, and minimal if any cable-produced shows.   

[Bren10]

Just have to agree to disagree on Mann. I agree his characterisation is unconventional but he still very much has it.

 

[vicegirl85]

I believe Sonny Crockett was a compelling, dynamic character and agree that it was the right role, at the right time, for Don Johnson.  He was the right actor and at the right place in his life to play Crockett.  Actor and role came together to make something that was more than the sum of its parts.  If Johnson had been less of a star in the role  of Crockett, perhaps PMT and the character of Tubbs might have received more attention and character development; so may some of the other secondary characters. 

That's just my opinion but I believe the studio that owned the show, advertisers whose money supported it, Yerkovich, Mann, etc., responded to that star power Johnson brought to the role of Crockett.  The Crockett character was showcased and Tubbs (who in the pilot seemed to be headed for an equal role) was downplayed a little.  The show's development didn't exist in a vacuum where purely artistic values predominated.  

Perhaps to some extent, commercial considerations drove the character development and storylines that were chosen for the show.  As it moved through the later part of S3, into S4 and S5, it may have been that frustrations over the network-imposed pressures/limits/costs, etc., contributed to its eventual slide and apparent loss of focus in storytelling.  

[Remington]

Season 3: Open the season with El Viejo, lose the soft focus look later in the season, and keep Crockett's hair short like during the first half. It looked good. And keep the show at its original time slot so it doesn't lose viewers.

Season 4: Higher budget and better fashion.

Season 5: Higher budget, better fashion, Crockett wouldn't use the Burnett alias after the first few episodes, and use better film stock or something because the show looked incredibly bland at times during the final season.

[RedDragon86]

I like 3 but one thing that is very noticeable to me is Don Johnson's acting, he is kind of annoying in this season, the Sonny we saw in the 1&2 seasons changes in season 3, its like he is too full of himself, the beginning of Cuba Libre is a perfect example. In season 1&2 he was a laid back moody cop, in season 3 he comes across as a rock star.

3:40 minutes onwards, why is talking like that? I notice this a lot in season 3.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by RedDragon86

[Bren10]

Ok first of all he's under, so his Burnett-behavior is different and hot-doggish. It always was, giong back to S1. Secondly, there's that gladhanding, competitive  ribbing that goes on whenever they meet somebody from another department. See the opening minutes of Home Invaders for some of that. I'm sure by now DJ was owning the role and he was "feeling it" so to speak. He knew the show was largely dependent on him and that gave him a swagger possibly. Or maybe he felt he had to "go big" in terms of acting because he was in fact the star. Or he could be cynically playing it up at times because it was getting repetitive to him. Hard to say what's in his head at certain points.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Bren10

[RedDragon86]

13 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

Ok first of all he's under, so his Burnett-behavior is different and hot-doggish. It always was, giong back to S1. Secondly, there's that gladhanding, competitive  ribbing that goes on whenever they meet somebody from another department. See the opening minutes of Home Invaders for some of that. I'm sure by now DJ was owning the role and he was "feeling it" so to speak. He knew the show was largely dependent on him and that gave him a swagger possibly. Or maybe he felt he had to "go big" in terms of acting because he was in fact the star. Or he could be cynically playing it up at times because it was getting repetitive to him. Hard to say what's in his head at certain points.

The scene in "Home Invaders" he came across as more likable and humorous, in the Cuba Libre scene he's annoying.

I don''t know I just think Don changes in this season.

[Bren10]

Art imitates life. He's a little more jaded and owning the role. Change is inevitable anyway. I think a lot of people here have a problem with that fact in regards to the show. I find that curious because the nature of style in the first place is to be in flux. People seem to want to box up 84/85 and keep Vice in it and nowhere else. But coolness is about being current which is how MV made its name in the first place.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Bren10

[Robbie C.]

I've seen some outside stuff that by season three DJ was becoming more of an ass in real life, too. That's the price you pay for centering a show on one character. That's why I would have started diversifying in season three as I mentioned before. I think you also see this because of Mann's lack of interest in that side of things. The show itself needed to flux, grow, and develop, especially in the character side. Blue Bloods actually is a good example of a show that is episodic in its case plot elements but arc-based on its character side. Vice, I think, would have benefited greatly from this kind of approach, but it wasn't going to happen without a strong show runner. Vice was a landmark show, obviously, but there were structural issues that prevented it from having a longer run and an impact that rippled beyond the stylistic impression.